Bluetooth and eavesdropping.

Is it possible that our Bluetooth headsets remain on when we think they're off? Is it possible that there are special goverment receivers that pick up whatever conversation we're having while wearing the headsets? I see tons of people everyday who have Bluetooth headsets on and are walking around having conversations with the people with them. Are these conversations being picked up? Just a weird thought I had. I don't know much about the Bluetooth technology.

Depends on the blueTooth. New BlueTooth technology will have a far greater signal radius. But for now its rather small. So i wouldn't be concerned about it. if they are listening they are listening from the main base staytions. since all communications go through the same companies.
You can however make your own blueTooth device that listens in on convos, but you have to be around other devices and the signals can't be well encrypted.

short answer. They are already listening.

So do we know for sure that the signal strength is small it's a non-issue or is that what "they" are telling us. I know they're listening from the main stations while we're on calls, but you're saying the signal radius is not strong enough for them to be montinoring our personal conversations with people physically in front of us? Even if we think out headsets are powered down?

Cellular phones work by a system similar to duplexing. Meaning your phone calls dont just go from Phone to Phone. They go through a network of towers and be repeated by different means to other towers down the line to the other phone. This means your signal can be intercepted or singled out for retransmission or hard copied to someone else or anywhere down the chain to the phone you are calling. This includes people sending information in this new computer format on cell phones..text messages or simple voice transmissions.

In short ..you dont have to intercept it from your blue tooth device..but can get or pick it up anywhere on the network once it is singled out and identified. This requires some rather complicated and expensive equipment to do this but not if it is already built into the system for usage by authorized personel. What do you think they are doing with all these upgrades to the cellular network over the years. This is all for your convenience right!!!!??? Think ..dont just emote. Digital processing makes this interception much much faster.

In short ..if you dont want people knowing certain things about you ..dont transmit this over a cell phone. For all that matter ..dont do so over your home cordless phone either...like your banking pin numbers etc etc.
I never use my pin numbers on a chordless phone or cell phone. And its not all that private over a hardline either.

IN short ..for those with the correct monitoring equipment there is no such thing as privacy over a cellular phone or a cordless phone. Some of you ought to be smarter than this.

HOw do I know this...I have friends in the telephone buisness..they tell me about some of this. Also I am a licensed Ham Radio operator. Many in the cell phone community and telephone companys are also Hams. I also worked Radar when I was in uniform. This makes alot of this shop talk easier to follow.

Let me give you a clue if you were following certain things during the Afganistan and Iraqi wars.

Particularly the Taliban..at some point they found it death to turn on a two way radio or use a cell or satellite phone...they were immediately targeted and bombed or hit with rockets. Understand now? This is clear in some of the news reports. Don't you think it is just another step to listening in??

ONe more thing...remember these telephone answer machines where you could enter a code and monitor or listen in on what was happening in the room where the answer machine was situated ..even though you were across country somewhere and the phone was in the cradle..... remember this??? Dont you think that it is possible to do so with a chordless telephone, cell phone ..or such...even though it is on the handset...or what you think is turned off?? Think this through carefully.

Think..dont just emote,
And use common sense when you use your cordles or cell phones.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I have heard that the 'on star' systems in cars can be activated to listen to what is being said in the car without the driver being aware of it. and law enforcement has used cellphone survalence to listen thru the phone when the owners thought it was powered down. Some folks are removing the batteries to help assure privacy.
I also wonder about all those cable boxes in our homes. I think they have the technologies to be able to watch and listen and send that info back through the cable wires to the powers that be. Am I paranoid? I don't think so.
I go to a luncheon for retired telecommunication staff every month. These guys helped build the infrastucture for the phone/cable/internet. They talk about the government installing devices into the main switch boxes and other places way back in the 60's and 70's. They tell me they were all over the place and still are there. Be carefull what you say..........they are always listening.

On the topic of cell phones, you don't know what kind of tracking chips can be put into those phones.

BTW, does anyone have any links that detail how phone cams work; how the images get transfered and though what network?

Is it just wireless transmission?

Do the pictures ever get stored on any kind of intermediary server or do they just go to email from the camera.

I technologically behind the times wrt cell phone cameras. My daughter has one, but I still have my old Motorola StarTac. The dad always gets the dregs, huh?

If someone has a link or something explaining how the pics get into your PC I'd be interested in reading. Thanks!

I ask partly because it occurred to me that prior to this the g-ment always had a way to look at our pictures when turned in for development. Now they don't get to have the photodevelopers spy for them!

I'm partly kidding, but it was an intriguing thought. Makes you wonder if film development is on the way out, except for use by professional photographers.


[edit on 29-12-2006 by Badge01]

I had not considered the angle of the On Star systems..that is a excellent point and the same applies to the On Star systems as applies to the cell phones.

Remember something ..pictures are also digital information..just like audio can be converted to digital than back to analog on the other end. Its just a matter of re arranging the digital information into a picture ..ie organizing the pixels into a picture. Digital audio is what you get on a CD. You just convert your voice to digital format then down the line and reconvert it back to audio to play through the speaker in your phone. All digital all ideal for sending down a line very rapidly.

And yes..the way to stop it is to take your battery out of your phone. A bit more difficult with an automobile.

Also yes on the governments connections with the phone company going back to the 1960s and before. This is something about which most of the public has no reason to know or ever think. I have been told the same by people in the communications buisness.
I was told by people in the buisness that one reason for going from rotary pulse to tone...dialing was that the pulse took longer to trace. The tone ,while also faster to dial than the older pulse mechanical systems, Was also faster to trace.
THere is a device on some ham radios which also make phone calls. It is called a DTMF reader. With this device when you hear a phone patch being done through a radio and it also reads the number dialed displaying this number received on a digital read out or led display. THese devices can be purchased by the public in certain electronics catalogs under DTMF readers. This is not a new device it has been around a long time. It just reads the tones on a telephone keypad. Certain Ham radios if you look carefully on the front of them it is actually a telephone keypad with extra controls for the radio. Menu driven just like your cell phone.

As to being able to monitor you through your cable system in your home..not impossible. Cable is certainly the correct medium for monitoring as it can handle alot of information rapidly. If you want to have a tell tale sigh of monitoring...unplug your cable for a while and see how long it takes the cable people to get back to you or send a van to your neighborhood. It doesnt take long to replug it when you want to watch it. I am certain that they monitor what you are watching..what channels you use the most. THe question is can they literally watch you?? Yes?? I have thought of this myself. The cable box is usually situated in the correct place for this monitoring.


I never plan to ge a vehicle with a on star system Hence I did not consider the on star as being just as vulnurable to monitoring as a cell or chodless phone. I will however with the awareness of the previous post keep this in mind.
Thanks for the tid bit about on star.

Orangetom

Im not an expert on this sort of thing but from what i can say is orangetom1999 is 100% right on more or less all that he has said.

I still havent got the hang of using the quote buttons so i will answere like this:
Re being able to monitor the cabel system in your home?
Well im sorry to say that yes this is being done
I know for a fact because it was me that it happened to and this was around 4 yrs ago,that if you unplugged the system from the telephone input sky would want to know why?
I told them i didnt want them to monitor my calls and or what i was watching, basically they were able to tell if you were in or out (in short).
I said to them that all my calls to them were being recorded by me, and they ended the conversation there and then.
They never entered telephone conversations with me again, and wrote me a letter stating that if i wanted to watch certain channels i would need to input a 6 digit number which they provided?

Again OT1999 is correct in saying that anywhere along the long line that this information is being carried can and does get intercepted.

With mobile phones for example, the information is kept for a number of years (ie the numbers dialled,recieved,txts, length of calls etc) this can be got from them under the data protection act 1998 (uk only).
I have a template letter if anyone wants ..hahah!

The only way to stop a mobile from emitting a signal is as OT1999 said is to take the battery out completely.
The more technology "we are given" the easier it is for "them" to track us!!!.

I still haven't figured out why any adult needs to go about town with a binky in their ear. In case you don't know what a binky is, check out the next baby you happen across. See that thing in its mouth? That is a binky. Take it out and that kid will scream bloody murder. Try the same with an adult's bluetooth. Same reaction.

Depsite the possibility they may indeed be listening in, its highly unlikely these government people have got the time on their hands to bother with everyday people, unless your known to them and they want you for something its probable youll never experience it, it would be impossible for them to monitor everyone all the time.

but I suppose all the latest technology is only making it easier for them should they wish to do so.

[edit on 29-12-2006 by marcopolo]

Originally posted by darkelf
I still haven't figured out why any adult needs to go about town with a binky in their ear. In case you don't know what a binky is, check out the next baby you happen across. See that thing in its mouth? That is a binky. Take it out and that kid will scream bloody murder. Try the same with an adult's bluetooth. Same reaction.

Yeah..I know what you mean. I see these people all over. Some with and some without those gadgets in thier ears but they all have something in common..they are stuck to thier cell phones. It is like a drug.

I have one but seldome use it and I am very particular as to whom I give my number. I dont like having to live with a phone to my ear. I am so glad I am not a office type as is the woman I am seeing. After being in the office all day ...I dont know how she can tolerate the phone ringing off the hook at her home ..mostly for her teens.

To some the cell phone is like a drug.Hooked on a drug. You cannot have a vocal conversation with them for five minutes without their phone ringing and interuption. I have actually told some of them to leave my house and come back when they have time and turn off thier phones.
You see them at work...they must call thier wives or girlfriends evey two hours and catch up on the latest "drama". There is not enough drama in thier lives.

Ive been off for about a week now...my cell phone hasnt rang but about three times. Most of the time it is off and on the charger. My aging parents are the ones I worry about most of the time ..most of the world can just go on by.
My land line has been ruined by telemarketers. I am thinking about getting rid of it and just keeping the cell. They are very pesky and seem to use some kind of automated dialer.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by tokenblonde
I have heard that the 'on star' systems in cars can be activated to listen to what is being said in the car without the driver being aware of it. and law enforcement has used cellphone survalence to listen thru the phone when the owners thought it was powered down. Some folks are removing the batteries to help assure privacy.
I also wonder about all those cable boxes in our homes. I think they have the technologies to be able to watch and listen and send that info back through the cable wires to the powers that be. Am I paranoid? I don't think so.
I go to a luncheon for retired telecommunication staff every month. These guys helped build the infrastucture for the phone/cable/internet. They talk about the government installing devices into the main switch boxes and other places way back in the 60's and 70's. They tell me they were all over the place and still are there. Be carefull what you say..........they are always listening.

This is the only thing I was refering to. The Bluetooth headset being similar to the OnStar system. Can they listen to your conversation if you are NOT on a call? Just by intercepting your conversation through the headset. I never asked can they intercept your call through your headset while you're on a call. That's common sense.

As far as any comments re: "blinkys" or if you told someone to leave your house because of their cell phone, who cares. No one asked for your opinion re: your views on peoples cell phone habits.

And you gotta love the people that think they know it all because "a friend" told them.

I still haven't see one post on here that explains why they can or can not intercept your personal conversation via Bluetooth when you are NOT on a call. Telling someone to take out the battery is common #ing sense. That wasn't the question.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Also I am a licensed Ham Radio operator.

Wow. Like that makes you more informed about this topic than someone else. Give me a break.

I've known a few "Ham Radio Operators", so you're more likely to be some middle aged fat balding loser than an expert on cell phone communications. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by 40Water

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Also I am a licensed Ham Radio operator.

Wow. Like that makes you more informed about this topic than someone else. Give me a break.

I've known a few "Ham Radio Operators", so you're more likely to be some middle aged fat balding loser than an expert on cell phone communications. Just sayin'.

This is not a pissing contest. I am not intrested in unzipping to see who has the biggest one. I think you can do better than your post.
This is people offering the information they have or know. You or others dont have to buy into it.
Such personal verbal attacks or assaults on others is considered insecurity by those who can see further than public education standards.
This is not Jerry Springer.
Most of any reasonable civility try to use information and reason ..logic in thier posts..not emotions. Excessive emotions shows insecurity.

Most peoples out here can see this point very clearly.
Please try to raise the bar on your approach.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Originally posted by 40Water

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Also I am a licensed Ham Radio operator.

Wow. Like that makes you more informed about this topic than someone else. Give me a break.

I've known a few "Ham Radio Operators", so you're more likely to be some middle aged fat balding loser than an expert on cell phone communications. Just sayin'.

This is not a pissing contest. I am not intrested in unzipping to see who has the biggest one. I think you can do better than your post.
This is people offering the information they have or know. You or others dont have to buy into it.
Such personal verbal attacks or assaults on others is considered insecurity by those who can see further than public education standards.
This is not Jerry Springer.
Most of any reasonable civility try to use information and reason ..logic in thier posts..not emotions. Excessive emotions shows insecurity.

Most peoples out here can see this point very clearly.
Please try to raise the bar on your approach.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Go back and read your first post in this thread...... Could those words typed be interpreted as a "verbal attacks or assaults on others"? Yet you say it is "considered insecurity by those who can see further than public education standards".

You started this thread off with a pompous ass attitude and you didn't even address the question I was asking about. In my first couple posts I made it clear that I am unfamiliar with Bluetooth technology, I don't appriciate another poster coming in my thread with such a attitude calling me "textbook" (whatever lame definition you associate that word with). You're right this is not Jerry Springer. This board is way above that and I've never encountered a poster such as yourself here.

I hope there's an ignore feature here.

40 Water

I think there is an ignore feature here. I ve never used it if there is one. No problem with me.

Sorry to see that you are so thin skinned. It must often hold you back. Even in someone elses levity.

To my knowlege Blue tooth is an adaptation to a cell phone.. built in. It must still use the cell phone networks. THat was the point I was making. Blue tooth or not. It must still use these networks. Once you have a number or a account leading to a number and zip code...you can pick this up anywhere in the states..or even in the world...if any dialing takes place. What we call a satellite phone would be no different. Just slightly different routing.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Bluetooth uses the same frequency as "Wifi" devices, I.E. Wireless router (internet), Microwaves, Some cordless phones, and RFID chips. However, unlike the latter, except for RFID, bluetooth uses almost ZIP transmit power. Unless the Gubbernut has a massive high gain antenna (Favorite space balls comment "Ludricus speed", like 4000 dBi) pointed at the entire US, they can't hear your chatter unless they are within 10 feet of you.

Originally posted by Wifiman
Bluetooth uses the same frequency as "Wifi" devices, I.E. Wireless router (internet), Microwaves, Some cordless phones, and RFID chips. However, unlike the latter, except for RFID, bluetooth uses almost ZIP transmit power. Unless the Gubbernut has a massive high gain antenna (Favorite space balls comment "Ludricus speed", like 4000 dBi) pointed at the entire US, they can't hear your chatter unless they are within 10 feet of you.

Thanks.

I cannot verify the exact method of encryption on a Bluetooth transmitter/receiver, but I can verify the ease and simplicity that secure encrypted transactions can be built in. Of course I do not suggest there are no DoD "back-doors" of course.

As far as cell phones go, I do know for a fact that in some states, if not all, in order for law enforcement to listen in on cell conversations, one or both conversation directions, and aside from the fact that a court order must be signed by a judge (ie-as in lets say monitoring specific numbers that maybe a suspect is using for drug trade for example), two things must be accomplished by authorities...

1-the police agency must physically climb the tower and put in place an attachment reciever parallel to the normal cell reciever, to intercept and listen-in the calls on that tower for a specific number. This is a legal requirement, not a physical or electronic requirement.

2-the suspect must be in the cell range that a specific tower transponds to/from.

Of course that is the 'legal' law enforcement method, and if you are in fact such a high profile suspect worthy of DoD or HLS snooping or interception, I imagine there are other more effective and covert ways applied.

Originally posted by Wifiman
Bluetooth uses the same frequency as "Wifi" devices, I.E. Wireless router (internet), Microwaves, Some cordless phones, and RFID chips. However, unlike the latter, except for RFID, bluetooth uses almost ZIP transmit power. Unless the Gubbernut has a massive high gain antenna (Favorite space balls comment "Ludricus speed", like 4000 dBi) pointed at the entire US, they can't hear your chatter unless they are within 10 feet of you.

This is why I stated it is much easier and more convenient to intercept for monitoring purposes at the trunking or routing towers.
Based on what I know from people in the communications industry this ability is already built in the system. It was a requirement for licensing from the feds. The ability to monitor.

There are two types of towers around this area. The most noticable is the ones from the interstate..on the sides of the roads..and on certain back roads to give good coverage around the busy part of this area. There is on the tops of them a triangualr top hat. Many vertical antennas festooned around the circumferance of this triangle. Sometimes you will see them also around the middles of these towers. Larger birds often nest up in the tophats of these towers.

The other and most unusual antenna is nothing but a grey pole...very thick. I goes straight up..about one and a half to two feet thick at the bottom and slightly narrowing as it goes up. About a hundred feet tall. There is often a small brick building adjacent to the base of this straight up antenna. This is the one which has me curious as to its purpose and function. This one close to me is actually right next to an elementary school.
If I knew how to post pictures I would photograph one and post it here.

Thanks,
Orangetom