How can anyone believe in God?

In this day and age where people are more scientifically enlightened its surprising how religion is still so prevelant.

Try posting a claim on ATS without any link to a credible source or other facts and almosy every member will jump on you to provide some and will probably ignore, laugh at or dismiss your entire thread unless you provide some credible source or scientific fact to back up your claim.

Why are we then so hell bent on believing that God exists. And if someone mentions it here on ATS, no one asks for proof to back up that claim. Why do we beilve in God and religion when there is absolutly no proof that God exists.

Lot of problems in the world have been caused due to religion throughout history and uptil today. Infact, religion is the one thing that has defined history for us. Major conflicts and wars were directly or indirectly in some part caused due to religious differences. Religion has caused more harm to humanity than all natural diseases and disasters combined.

How can people belive in God when the same people do not accept any thing as else true unless backed up by scientific facts.

Isnt believing in God same as believing in Aliens? Infact, these is probably more 'proof' of alien existence than of God. Religion is like a disease. If someone follows it very loosely, then its all good but the more the person starts to follow the religious books more literally and starts to indulge more in religious activities, the more 'extremist' he becomes. Just like a disease which, if detected early, can be cured but in later stages becomes devastating.

Uptil today, there is no absolute proof of any existence of prophets or religious figures or God other than the books of that very same religion. Accepting those books as proof is like accepting a criminal's word when he says he is innocent and not looking at any solid proof.

It still amazes me that, intelligent as the human race may be, religion controls them and defiines their individuality and way of life and people do not even stop to question why there is no proof of God existing. Why were there so many miracles that we read about in books that happened in the anceint times and yet we never witness any during our lifetime, nor have we heard of any family or friend ever witnessing the same.

How come we do not ever see or hear about any recent moon splitting, sea parting, virgin human births, flygin carpets, animals talking, etc.

I do not belive in religion or God but I do belive that humans have a soul and I also believe in afterlife. I think the soul moves to a different dimension after death where we start a new life. Lot of evidence to backup this claim. Numerous stories of spirits, ghosts, near death experiences, OBEs, etc. which all point to that theory. However, they do not point to a God or heaven or hell.

Originally posted by silencer
..... but I do belive that humans have a soul and I also believe in afterlife.

This belief that you hold, is it one of faith or proof?

[edit on 12/21/2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard
This belief that you hold, is it one of faith or proof?

Did you not read what I wrote after that? OBEs, NDEs, etc. are the reasons for my belief. Those can be considered real proof because there are numerous cases around the world with very similar experiences. There are way too many cases and almost same descriptions of the afterlife experienced by such people. Not to mention the visit from a dead relative even when the person experiencing NDE has no knowledge of that relatives death later to find out that the relative actually died some time ago. In comparison, I do not see any cases that specifically point to existence of God.

I think (and this may not be the case for everyone) that a lot of people believe in God(s) or some sort of superior being because they cant comprehend the fact that there may be nothing past the universe or that the universe has to have been created by something because its to "complicated" to have simply emerged on its own.

I don't believe in god, that doesn't mean there isn't one nothing is impossible but with no proof or even a valid theory there is no reasoning behind believing in such a thing.

Originally posted by silencer
Did you not read what I wrote after that? OBEs, NDEs, etc. are the reasons for my belief.

Yes friend I read what you wrote. Those things can be considered "evidence" if you like though your belief is based on "faith" as you have no proof. In this way you are not unlike anyone else of faith.

I have had a NDE (click my sig to read) so you don't need to explain it to me. I called on Jesus and he came. I floated outside Heaven in the light and was given a choice to return to earth or remain in Heaven. While I consider this proof of my faith others may consider it evidence.

Blessings to you...


[edit on 12/21/2006 by kinglizard]

Kinglizard,

I am sure you read what I wrote, that was just my way of saying that "I hate to repeat this again but....". Actually my beliefs are quite different which would be too much expain in detail here. But to put it simply, I also believe in the power of the mind. I feel that when we die and we are free from the physical restraints of our body, we will have more control over our mind and we can pretty much control everything around us by the power of mind alone. Apart frm whats actually there in that dimension we could even create Jesus, mohammad, dead relatives, etc. with our mind and actually experience these things in real time.

I can see why (the reasons) people believe in God but its kinda funny to me that the same people would not accept that a certain kind of milk is healthy for them without any scientific proof, would be ready to kill themselves over the words of 'God'.

silencer,

The point here is not that you don't have it worked out in your mind. The point here is that you condemn others for the same thing you confess to have....faith without proof.

Originally posted by kinglizard
silencer,

The point here is not that you don't have it worked out in your mind. The point here is that you condemn others for the same thing you confess to have....faith without proof.

I consider OBEs, NDEs and thousands of cases around the world as credible proof. I do not see the same with people who claim to belive in God however. I never see them show numerous real life cases that can point specifically to the existence of God. The only thing they base their claim on is a book and a personal belief. I base mine on personal belief plus numerous real life cases which is much more credible than the former. I used to believe in God and religion before. I believed it most full heartedly. But as I grew up I started to see that religion does not make sense. The concept of God does not make sense to me.

An example: In a country like India, you will find numerous religious guys who can perform extraordinary acts and they do it in front of many people. I have seen people make pots fly in the air, make things change form, perform exorcisms, etc. The one thing I noticed is that these people were from different religion but they were able to perform the same acts. And yet they claim that their God is the one giving them power to do it. So either there are multiples Gods, each for every religion, or no God at all. Latter sounds more plausible.

Originally posted by silencer
And yet they claim that their God is the one giving them power to do it. So either there are multiples Gods, each for every religion, or no God at all. Latter sounds more plausible.

Or if I may give a slightly different theory I think it is possible that there belief in God even if it doesn't exist gave them the strength they needed to preform those acts. Sometimes all you need is a belief in something to push you to do something unbelievable.

This could be a valid reason to say that the belief in God(s) isn't a bad thing even if God(s) don't exist however the problem is that belief causes more harm than good which can be seen thought history and even today and its still only a belief it doesn't nessisaraly prove anything.

Originally posted by silencer

Originally posted by kinglizard
silencer,

The point here is not that you don't have it worked out in your mind. The point here is that you condemn others for the same thing you confess to have....faith without proof.

I consider OBEs, NDEs and thousands of cases around the world as credible proof. I do not see the same with people who claim to belive in God however. I never see them show numerous real life cases that can point specifically to the existence of God. The only thing they base their claim on is a book and a personal belief. I base mine on personal belief plus numerous real life cases which is much more credible than the former. I used to believe in God and religion before. I believed it most full heartedly. But as I grew up I started to see that religion does not make sense. The concept of God does not make sense to me.

An example: In a country like India, you will find numerous religious guys who can perform extraordinary acts and they do it in front of many people. I have seen people make pots fly in the air, make things change form, perform exorcisms, etc. The one thing I noticed is that these people were from different religion but they were able to perform the same acts. And yet they claim that their God is the one giving them power to do it. So either there are multiples Gods, each for every religion, or no God at all. Latter sounds more plausible.

Those people are probably illusionists.

Originally posted by wildcat
Those people are probably illusionists.

Trust me, I have seen and experienced stuff which cannot be illusions. If I start relating stories it would take forever. But I can give some examples if you are interested.

Originally posted by Edn
[This could be a valid reason to say that the belief in God(s) isn't a bad thing even if God(s) don't exist however the problem is that belief causes more harm than good which can be seen thought history and even today and its still only a belief it doesn't nessisaraly prove anything.

Thats what I am saying, belief in God has some good points but a lot more negative consequences. Religious differences, riots, extremism, violence, segregation, discrimination, stereotyping, disrespect, etc are just to name a few. Ofcourse the bigger negative effects being, control of a large populace by a handful of religious leaders. Our entire history has been affected by religion more than anything else. The world is the way it is today because of religion. And its sad to see that it is not exactly in a good shape. Religion also hinders scientific progress in some cases.

Originally posted by silencer

Originally posted by wildcat
Those people are probably illusionists.

Trust me, I have seen and experienced stuff which cannot be illusions. If I start relating stories it would take forever. But I can give some examples if you are interested.

'

I would much like that, U2U me for links to videos if you can.

Originally posted by silencer

Originally posted by wildcat
Those people are probably illusionists.

Trust me, I have seen and experienced stuff which cannot be illusions. If I start relating stories it would take forever. But I can give some examples if you are interested.

'

I would much like that, U2U me for links to videos if you can.

Belief in God requires faith. I suppose I come from the other end of the spectrum; when I look at the world around me and the complexity of the universe, I wonder how anyone could not believe in God.

Originally posted by kinglizard
you condemn others for the same thing you confess to have....faith without proof.

Exactly. It's called hypocrisy.

Condemn others for their belief in God, but YOURS is okay because it's based on NDEs/OBE (which may or may not be the result of a lack of oxygen to the brain or it could be drug induced according to SCIENCE)

Condemn others for their beliefs and behavior, but excuse your own when it's based on the same thing - faith without proof.

** side note - I fully believe that people experience the metaphysical realities of God during NDEs. I have no question about it. I bring up the fact that science disagrees with that to show that NDEs have no SCIENTIFIC proof which silencer says is necessary for everyone else.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by kinglizard
you condemn others for the same thing you confess to have....faith without proof.

Condemn others for their belief in God, but YOURS is okay because it's based on NDEs/OBE (which may or may not be the result of a lack of oxygen to the brain or it could be drug induced according to SCIENCE)

Kinglizard had something stuck down his/her lungs if I remember correctly. His/her NDE would make sense if they are caused by lack of oxygen in a way.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Exactly. It's called hypocrisy.

I left this thread with my last post because it became quite clear that the thread author just wants to win some debate.

Lets take a look at what he has said:

• First (s)he condemns everyone that has faith without proof in this modern age.
  
  
• Then (s)he says he says he himself has faith without proof.
  
  
• So (s)he condemns others for the same thing (s)he confess to have....faith without proof.
  
  
• Then (s)he says God is something we make up in out mind when we die.
  
  
• Then (s)he says he has seen magic in India or wherever and it could only be done by God.
  
  
• Then (s)he says there could be multiples Gods, each for every religion.

Anyway you can get dizzy trying to follow the "logic" in this thread. We only have a couple reasonable conclusions here. I won't question the mental health of the thread author so (s)he is either trying to win some debate at any cost or (s)he doesn't have any idea of what (s)he is saying hence all the contradictions and hypocrisy.

My guess is that (s)he is just trying to "win" so (s)he keeps spinning around in an attempt to reject logic when me or other members point it out. (s)he then tries to think of a scenario that would make his faith true and others false. Allthewhile (s)he doesn't consider what (s)he already said in the thread.

No doubt in my mind that anyone reading this thread will realize the same.

Anyway it's not worth any more of my time. That's why this will be my last post.

Originally posted by kinglizard
I left this thread with my last post because it became quite clear that the thread author just wants to win some debate.

Lets take a look at what he has said:

You just HAD to go there, didn't you? :shk:

Belief and Personal Proof

silencer

I believe much the same as you do in that I believe life after death does not require a God to orchestrate it. But let me tell you why I believe in life after death. Sure there are NDEs and OBEs, but my belief comes from personal experience. I have talked with and physically felt the dead. I have physically heard their voices and received visualizations from them.

Now, can I prove this? No. Could I be wrong? Could they all be a trick of my mind? Yes. Do I believe it was real? With 100% of my being.

Many people have personal experiences that they can attribute to NOTHING else but a higher power, or what they call God. I have actually had experiences myself in my youth that I attributed to God. I believed in God with everything that I had. But once these experiences are personalized and are attributed to something (either God or an afterlife or psychic powers or whatever supernatural explanation) they are real to that person. It's real, it's certain, it's proof. TO THAT PERSON.

I have proof of the afterlife, but only to me. I can't prove to someone else that it's real. But I don't really care to.

But why do they believe in God?

Now, as to why people believe in God, aside from having their personal experiences, I think people have, since the beginning of thought, wondered how we got here, why we're here and where we're going. So, in this wondering, a story started to evolve...

Since we're just lowly man, someone had to put us here. And that someone must be a big, all-powerful, all knowing God... And it certainly helps them to have someone out there to "turn over their problems to". It helps them to have someone to pray to... to make it seem like they're doing something when a loved one has been in an accident or is dying of cancer. It helps many people to feel and believe that there's 'someone' out there who loves them more than words can express... 'someone' who cares and will help them if they need it. It feels secure to them to know that they and their future are "in God's hands" or to say when their loved one dies, "It's God's will."

For many people, a belief in God is what carries them along in life. It helps them. They need it. They want it. And I don't see a thing wrong with it. If it's what they want in their life, I don't have a problem with it.

(Of course it's no secret that I dont' like it when they try to make me believe the same way they do, but that's another subject.)

Let me ask you... why do you have a problem with people believing in God? Because if it's because they can't prove it, you can't prove an afterlife either, yet you believe it.

In fairness, it's not really a belief in God in itself that causes violence and what not. I think that many people who cause violence in the name of God either think that their beliefs are more important than anyone elses OR (and I think the more likely reason) is religion is just an excuse that they use to promote violence to get what they want.

I think there are a lot of things that occur and exist in the universe that science has yet to define or explain, and perhaps never will. The concept of God (or something similar) may be one of those things. That's just my opinion though.

Also, there are many people who have had OBE's and NDE's where they have met God, Jesus, angels, saints, and other religious entities. So for the same reasons you are saying that OBE's and NDE's are proof that there is an afterlife and a soul, someone else can easily use as proof that there is a God.