Why be an atheist ?

Western Religous(Christianity and it's branches, Jews, and Islam) people believe/think in this.

All mighty invisable people. Good and bad. Miracles. Death to you for not believeing in what I believe in. War. Torture(Catholic church#1 on the last three departments people) and of course ignorance.(Also lead by Catholic church followed closely by Protestants and then Islamic religon)

Athiests think/know this.

No such things as all mighty powerful invisable people. Right and wrong, not good and bad for what is good and bad? Fire is good, but you use it to burn a person it bad. Guns are bad, but then you use it to protect your family from a serial killer. So niether good or bad, but how you use them is right or wrong. Science and facts and reality. We know this or that because we did tests, used science to create facts or ideas. And of course, #1 for most athiests like me and others that I know, we have ideas and ideas can be changed. They are changed everyday all over the world. New evidence or proof or facts come up and this new evidence changes the last idea. Unlike religon where it's "The earth is flat. But I have proof it is round. HANG HIM! BURN HIM! DESTROY THE EVIDENCE!." In fact, a good today version now that science and facts are in power. "The earth is solid with an iron core surronded by magma in which the crust floats upon. Well I have some evidence that says the earth might actually be hollow. Really? Give it here. Well, what do you think? This is actually pretty good, how much funding do you need? Not to much right now for not sure where to start. Well, here is some funding and some numbers of scientists you can get ahold of."

And yes, the earth may be hollow people Why? Through evidence I have seen/read, it could be. Here is a link to some of it.

www.veritastruth.com...

Originally posted by Satyr
Just as you believers seem to think there's no harm in believing, what's the harm in being a skeptic? Skeptics get fooled alot less because they use logic and reason to their advantage. I sure haven't met too many skeptical xians. Actually, most of them are the type of people who will believe almost anything, without spending a moment researching. They're the ones responsible for spreading all those hoax emails as truth!

word, really why are there so many people immediatly claiming that not believing in god makes u ignorant, and close minded..i guess those people dont really think for themselfs like we do, call it close minded but THEN i call close minded living in the name of god..

is used to be an atheistamajigger.... yep... it's been a while...

Yeah, its good to be an atheist. Most of people have a veeery nasty way of thinking. if they dont understand something, they make legends, gods and miracles to explain that, instead searching for scientifitic explaintation. And when it comes, they like their stories more than truth. In middle ages people believed that Earth is center of niverse and sun is going around it, and when Copernicus and Galileo said that they are wrong, they wanted to burn them. They are strongly defenging wrong explantation but THEIR OWN one, instead saying that they were wrong and accepting true one. Simply, they never want to say that someone is smarter than them.

Originally posted by AdamS
Yeah, its good to be an atheist. Most of people have a veeery nasty way of thinking. if they dont understand something, they make legends, gods and miracles to explain that, instead searching for scientifitic explaintation. And when it comes, they like their stories more than truth. In middle ages people believed that Earth is center of niverse and sun is going around it, and when Copernicus and Galileo said that they are wrong, they wanted to burn them. They are strongly defenging wrong explantation but THEIR OWN one, instead saying that they were wrong and accepting true one. Simply, they never want to say that someone is smarter than them.

If scientists don't understand something they make theories and those theories change over the years the same as legends. There are so many things in today's society that we just accept as true because thats what we have been told. Do we challenge that gravity is what keeps us in place on the earth and that gravity is caused by the earth just being an object in the universe.

The Law of Gravity

Every objet in the Universe attracts every other object with a force directed along the line of centers for the two objects that is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square the separation between the two objects

Just because this law says that this is what gravity is does not mean that it is an absolute truth. Many things have been facts proven by science until they were disproved. For example: flying was said by scientists as impossible until the wright brothers came along. Science can be just as wrong as religion.

Beleiving in the exsistence of a God, Sumpreme being, etc.... is just as much a leap of faith as beleiving that we were seeded by aliens or we just kinda happened. The big bang theory is nothing more than an eloborate guess with a few facts sprinkled in for greater effect. There is no way for mankind to determine its own exsistence but we still attempt it because we want to know.

Quantum physics have breathed life into another form of science called Parrallel Universes. In this theory we live in one of 10 to the 10^118 universes that have temperatures below 10^8 kelvins and that everything we do from brushing our teeth to getting married is already determined because one of the other universes contains all other possibilities. If this theory is true then everything you and I do has already been determined for us but by what? If we have no free choice then what pulls the strings?

The fact of the matter is simple to try to argue there is a god is futile and to try and argue that the universe happened on its on is naive.

What a paradox we live in.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Do we challenge that gravity is what keeps us in place on the earth and that gravity is caused by the earth just being an object in the universe.

Actually, yes, I do. No one knows what gravity is. It's just a word for the best theory we have to date. That's all it is.

Beleiving in the exsistence of a God, Sumpreme being, etc.... is just as much a leap of faith as beleiving that we were seeded by aliens or we just kinda happened. The big bang theory is nothing more than an eloborate guess with a few facts sprinkled in for greater effect. There is no way for mankind to determine its own exsistence but we still attempt it because we want to know.

You're wrong. I can test gravity, and I know it's there. Every test will reveal the same results, every time. God has yet to reveal any evidence to me, and believe me, I've tested that hypothesis to my abilities. Do you know the difference between hypothesis and theory? Theory is a tested hypothesis. God is only a hypothesis, since there is no test that provides the same results time and again to support the theory.

Quantum physics have breathed life into another form of science called Parallel Universes. In this theory we live in one of 10 to the 10^118 universes that have temperatures below 10^8 kelvins and that everything we do from brushing our teeth to getting married is already determined because one of the other universes contains all other possibilities. If this theory is true then everything you and I do has already been determined for us but by what? If we have no free choice then what pulls the strings?

Another hypothesis...not a theory at all. The word "theory" must be the most misused word in the english language.

[Edited on 12-18-2003 by Satyr]

My questioon to the athiest is simple. How does athiesm explain morality.. It man is tuely just a biped animal...how can affection, compassion ect.. exist???

I would think that a true athiest would have to be psychotic... morality just didn't factor into life... its just eat, kill, F@ck, and sleep.

Let's see, catholics need an all powerful invisable person that lives in the clouds to tell them not to kill. Athiests go hey, that not the right thing to do usually, so they don't usually do it. But they will kill to protect themselves and their family from the person who broke in and is threatening his family. Of course, catholics kill more than any athiest has. Who has about 12 wars, 20 different Inquisitions, a few massacers, about 1000 years of killing anyone who went against the church, yeah, athiests follow eat kill f@ck sleep while catholics follow the rules their god gave them.

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Do we challenge that gravity is what keeps us in place on the earth and that gravity is caused by the earth just being an object in the universe.

Actually, yes, I do. No one knows what gravity is. It's just a word for the best theory we have to date. That's all it is.

Beleiving in the exsistence of a God, Sumpreme being, etc.... is just as much a leap of faith as beleiving that we were seeded by aliens or we just kinda happened. The big bang theory is nothing more than an eloborate guess with a few facts sprinkled in for greater effect. There is no way for mankind to determine its own exsistence but we still attempt it because we want to know.

You're wrong. I can test gravity, and I know it's there. Every test will reveal the same results, every time. God has yet to reveal any evidence to me, and believe me, I've tested that hypothesis to my abilities. Do you know the difference between hypothesis and theory? Theory is a tested hypothesis. God is only a hypothesis, since there is no test that provides the same results time and again to support the theory.

Quantum physics have breathed life into another form of science called Parallel Universes. In this theory we live in one of 10 to the 10^118 universes that have temperatures below 10^8 kelvins and that everything we do from brushing our teeth to getting married is already determined because one of the other universes contains all other possibilities. If this theory is true then everything you and I do has already been determined for us but by what? If we have no free choice then what pulls the strings?

Another hypothesis...not a theory at all. The word "theory" must be the most misused word in the english language.

[Edited on 12-18-2003 by Satyr]

My point is pretty simple its all just best guess.

As far as science is concerned this is how its laid out:

Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to explain, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don�t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true. Laws, however, can be proven to be incorrect.

As you can see science is just best guess. Even the most fundemental elements of physics can be false we just don't know because there is so much we have not yet seen. To make the statment that just because you cannot see god he is not real is not a fair statement. I cannot see quarks and scientists who claim to have seen them cannot prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt yet I am supposed to beleive that they are real just because a scientist says so. Its the same principle with religion. The book says theres a god you choose to beleive it or not. The scientist says theres a quark you choose to blindly accept it or not either way its not something you or I can prove or disprove we are just basing our judgements off something or someone else.

Originally posted by groovyguru
My questioon to the athiest is simple. How does athiesm explain morality.. It man is tuely just a biped animal...how can affection, compassion ect.. exist???

I would think that a true athiest would have to be psychotic... morality just didn't factor into life... its just eat, kill, F@ck, and sleep.

Morality? I'm an athiest, and I have morality, of a sort. Part of it is due to the social contract. As social beings, there are basic rules to interaction. there is a hierachy, there is decorum, ect. Part of morality is based on that. The rest of morality is based on person choices and values.

An atheist is godless, but not amoral.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx

Originally posted by groovyguru
My questioon to the athiest is simple. How does athiesm explain morality.. It man is tuely just a biped animal...how can affection, compassion ect.. exist???

I would think that a true athiest would have to be psychotic... morality just didn't factor into life... its just eat, kill, F@ck, and sleep.

Morality? I'm an athiest, and I have morality, of a sort. Part of it is due to the social contract. As social beings, there are basic rules to interaction. there is a hierachy, there is decorum, ect. Part of morality is based on that. The rest of morality is based on person choices and values.

An atheist is godless, but not amoral.

DE

You miss the point, the whole idea of a social contract is unique to the human condition. Its extra-instinctual... supernatural in nature, because it doesn't deal with natural instinct...(i.e. eat, sleep, boink, and kill) athiests dont' allow for anthing extra/super natural... so your arguement of morality via social contract.

Originally posted by groovyguru

Originally posted by DeusEx

Originally posted by groovyguru
My questioon to the athiest is simple. How does athiesm explain morality.. It man is tuely just a biped animal...how can affection, compassion ect.. exist???

I would think that a true athiest would have to be psychotic... morality just didn't factor into life... its just eat, kill, F@ck, and sleep.

Morality? I'm an athiest, and I have morality, of a sort. Part of it is due to the social contract. As social beings, there are basic rules to interaction. there is a hierachy, there is decorum, ect. Part of morality is based on that. The rest of morality is based on person choices and values.

An atheist is godless, but not amoral.

DE

You miss the point, the whole idea of a social contract is unique to the human condition. Its extra-instinctual... supernatural in nature, because it doesn't deal with natural instinct...(i.e. eat, sleep, boink, and kill) athiests dont' allow for anthing extra/super natural... so your arguement of morality via social contract.

Bull#, Chimps have societies, tribes of monkeys have societies, lions have societies, so do tigers, elephants. Every pack animal has a society and there are rules to those societies.

Originally posted by groovyguru

Originally posted by DeusEx

Originally posted by groovyguru
My questioon to the athiest is simple. How does athiesm explain morality.. It man is tuely just a biped animal...how can affection, compassion ect.. exist???

I would think that a true athiest would have to be psychotic... morality just didn't factor into life... its just eat, kill, F@ck, and sleep.

Morality? I'm an athiest, and I have morality, of a sort. Part of it is due to the social contract. As social beings, there are basic rules to interaction. there is a hierachy, there is decorum, ect. Part of morality is based on that. The rest of morality is based on person choices and values.

An atheist is godless, but not amoral.

DE

You miss the point, the whole idea of a social contract is unique to the human condition. Its extra-instinctual... supernatural in nature, because it doesn't deal with natural instinct...(i.e. eat, sleep, boink, and kill) athiests dont' allow for anthing extra/super natural... so your arguement of morality via social contract.

It's instinctual in almost every animal, including humans, and prettymuch the same. three examples:

1. Hierarchy- all animal groups have a heirachy. We have government. Wolves have an alpha male, ect.

2. ritualized combat- there is a method inside every society with which competing beings may combat but not neccesarily kill each other.

3. Use of defaction posts- dogs don't # all voer the place. They have a spot, jsut like us.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx

It's instinctual in almost every animal, including humans, and prettymuch the same. three examples:

1. Hierarchy- all animal groups have a heirachy. We have government. Wolves have an alpha male, ect.

2. ritualized combat- there is a method inside every society with which competing beings may combat but not neccesarily kill each other.

3. Use of defaction posts- dogs don't # all voer the place. They have a spot, jsut like us.

DE

You said it much more eloquently than I did heheh.

EDIT: To reduce the size of the post, sorry about that.

[Edited on 21-12-2003 by �any]

lay off on the useless huges quotes guys...

Originally posted by BlackJackal
As you can see science is just best guess.

Best educated guess, based on FACTS that are proven consistent through process of elimination. The bible? It's nothing but words, written by men. It has absolutely no consistency, nor proven test results. Stick your head right back in the sand.

As for morals, everyone has them. They're taught to you by people, not gods. Morals are also as different as the cultures they exist in. That's not even a point for argument, IMO.

[Edited on 12-21-2003 by Satyr]

Animals function on instinctsn which is what your calling rules... theres no social contract between a troop of monkeys, just instincts, domination, and submission. Humanity is a step above(for the most part) as far as the kill or be killed thing social contracts shouldn't be confused with instincts.

Originally posted by groovyguru
Animals function on instinctsn which is what your calling rules... theres no social contract between a troop of monkeys, just instincts, domination, and submission. Humanity is a step above(for the most part) as far as the kill or be killed thing social contracts shouldn't be confused with instincts.

Again I call bull#.
If what you say is true then all pack animals would be killing each other to dominate the others but they don't.
The pack mentality is not supernatural, humans run on the exact same principals as other pack animals.
You don't kill your own because the species needs to survive.
You care and groom your own to keep the society free from disease.
Etc.
Man, I should get my girlfriend on this thread, she studied Zoology for a while at University and her parents own a zoo, she could argue this much better than I could.

Athiesm is intrinsicaly selfish.. a philosophy of supreme individuality...If your an Athiest, what seperates mankind from animals??

Originally posted by groovyguru
Athiesm is intrinsicaly selfish.. a philosophy of supreme individuality...If your an Athiest, what seperates mankind from animals??

Nothing, we ARE animals.