Boxing: Who are the best boxers you've seen?

This may not be accurate due to peoples ages. For example my grandfather saw fighters I didn't, Suger Ray Robinson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis. He said these guys were the best boxers he had seen. I'll take his word for that, he was a boxer after all.

I've only seen them in the last 35 years or so.

This is all my opinion of course:

Tied at #1: Sugar Ray Leonord and Marvin Hagler.
#2: Ali, I saw him when he was older.
#3: Roberto Duran, tough and long lived.
#4: Forman, same as Duran.

Honorable mention: Frazier, Shavers, Hearns, Mayweather, Mosley.

Tell me, who am I forgetting?

To add, amatures(yeah, right) Teofilo Stevenson.

I must first say that I have minimal knowledge about boxing. What I can do is comment about those I have seen perform and those I have read about and know their stats.

Sugar Ray Leonard is immensely overrated. He won those title fights against Duran and Hearns early in his career, but didn't reign for long. He would miss about four years because of a detached retina. When he did return, he defeated Hagler in a decision most experts believe was wrong. I have seen that fight, and I agree. Hagler dominated that fight with Leonard making some late flurries in some of the rounds. Later Leonard defeated Donny Lalonde in a light heavyweight bout--but who's Donny Lalonde? The worst ripoff, though, was in the rematch with Hearns, which was ruled a draw. I've seen that one too, and Hearns whooped on him.

For my lifetime, I'd say the best two fighters were Duran and Hagler. Duran was lightweight champion from 1972 to 1979 before he moved up in weight. He would win the welterweight and later the middleweight title. Hagler ruled middleweight boxing from 1980-87. His bout with Hearns in 1985 was perhaps the greatest three round slugfest ever. Hagler's reputation rises above most others because he was willing to walk away from the sport in 1987 and never try a comeback.

I have only seen a handful of Ali's fights, so I really can't judge based on that. However, his record speaks for itself. He had longevity and versatility. For a man to be able to beat Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, and George Foreman is just incredible.

Another guy we shouldn't overlook is Mike Tyson. His period of greatness was short, but from 1986-1991 he was absolutely devastating.

Sugar Ray Leonard is immensely overrated.

I don't think that this is a fair assessment of Ray's career. I'm a fan of the sweet science and I am a fan of Hagler as well as Suger Ray. Ray did win that fight, he just didn't fight like Marvin would have liked him to. Ray could box when he had to and brawl when he had to. That was his strength. I saw him knock out the Irish champ with a left hook, not a TKO, buddy was in La-La land. Did he have the strongest blows? Nope but he had more than his share of hits and he isn't a lightweight either. If he wasn't getting some power onto Hagler why didn't Marvin just walk in and demolish him?

Leonard/Hearns 2? I'll give you that one. Tommy was the better man that day. But it would be unfair imo to discredit a great career on the basis of a couple of judges that called a fight wrong.

Side note: The most over-rated champ ever imo was Larry Holmes. This man fought with more grease on his head and body than a George Forman grill.

Edit: Because I screwed up the BB code.

[Edited on 4/28/06 by truenorth]

If you want to see how tough Hagler really was, get your hands on a fight he had with John(The Beast) Mugabi. A Ugandan that went toe to toe with Hagler for 11 rounds. These guys beat the snot out of each other for all of those rounds. It ended in a TKO at the start of the 12th as Mugabi didn't have the energy to get off of his chair but you could see the fire was still in his eyes. Most brutal fight I've ever seen. A classic.

My dad was born in 1917 and died in 2002. He was a lifelong boxing fan and could recall the details of every match he ever heard on the radio or saw on TV. And he understood boxing a lot better than I do. My idea of a fight is to just go at the guy, because I'm very big and have a couple of crushing punches, and can take a hell of a punch. But if the other guy is really skilled at hand-to-hand combat, it's, um, not good for me.

In any event, I know diddly about boxing and don't know a lot about what to watch for except punches hitting wide-open face or ribs.

But I listened to my dad given lengthy discussions about the heavyweight champs, from Dempsey and Tunney all the way to Foreman the Second Time. I thought surely he would say Ali stood alone. He did not. He said it was not clear to him whether Ali or JOE LOUIS was the greatest heavyweight of his lifetime.

A great many other people of my father's time, who were old enough to see and fully appreciate both of those champs in their primes, said the same thing. Since I've not spent lots of hours watching film reels, and since I frankly wouldn't know all the things to watch for if I did, I'm inclined to believe the Louis/Ali camp knows what they're talking about.

BHN

That Hagler-Leonard fight was hard to call. I think the reason why I felt Hagler won that one is because he was always advancing, never on the retreat. Leonard had those flurries at the end of some rounds, but he was never backing Hagler up. Those quick punches, while flashy, were not doing any damage.

Two other boxers worth mentioning are Julio Cesar Chavez and Roy Jones, Jr.

Oh, and I agree about Larry Holmes's being overrated. He rose to the top when talent was thin in the heavyweight division. Ali and Frazier were done, and the other great fighters of the 1970's (Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Leon Spinks, to name a few) were on the decline. Holmes got the title after those guys were basically gone and before Mike Tyson rose up.

Best I've seen was undoubtedly Ali. I'd say Leonard was number 2. If you said "fighter" instesd of "boxer", I might put Tyson at number 2. At his peak, he was just scary.

Worst championship fight I ever saw: Larry Holmes vs. Randy "Tex" Cobb. I swear Cobb never threw a punch and just got absolutely beaten up like no one I've ever seen.

Tex Cobb was a professional version of me in a fight.

Seriously. And you would never, ever, ever get me in a boxing ring against a guy who knew how to fight. I'd get killed.

I saw Cobb a few times and he didn't know much more about it than me. He had the same fearlessness and brute punching, and that's fine against the normal guy in a bar, but it makes you dogmeat against a real boxer... every time.

And no, I'm not trying to say I could have fought him. He would have murdered me, I'm sure. But how he fought against real boxers, I will never know. It takes a lot more than psychotic fearlessness and a couple of real good punches, when you're fighting someone with a lot of technical knowledge. I found that out a few times, so trust me, lol.

I couldn't believe his career went on as long as it did. Could any of you?

BHN

It's hard to say who is the best boxers you have ever seen as there is so many at different weight catorgories. Just for what he achieved and who he fought against and won Ali has to be the greatest ever.

But i have seen some awesome fighters or shall i say fights in my time that i can remember while watching boxing say.. 25 years or so, Arturo Gatti is one. His fights against Ward were legendary. Nigel Benn was a class act and even though people hated him Chris Eubanks was a great fighter with a devastating punch. You have Joe Calzaghe who destroyed that American in his last title fight. Tyson in his younger days was unstoppable, the man was a animal in the ring. If he had the right people behind him he could have stayed champion for alot longer than he did.

I could come up with alot more but i'll have to think about it.





[Edited on 29/4/06 by TRD]

TRD,

Did you ever see Randy "Tex" Cobb? What did you think of his "boxing" skills?

BHN

Originally posted by TRD
Tyson in his younger days was unstoppable, the man was a animal in the ring. If he had the right people behind him he could have stayed champion for alot longer than he did.

Fear was Tyson's best weapon. Once it was shown, by Hollyfield, that Mike wasn't effective fighting while backing up, he was done. The exact opposite of Hagler. You attacked Marvin and you were toast, the counter-puncher killed you. This was why Leonard did so well against him, he allowed Hagler to come to him, thus not fighting his fight.

BTW, I worked with a guy that fought Tyson professionally, can anyone figure out who it is?

[Edited on 5/1/06 by truenorth]

Originally posted by truenorth
BTW, I worked with a guy that fought Tyson professionally, can anyone figure out who it is?

George Chuvalo?

I'll guess Donovan "Razor" Ruddock.

Originally posted by yeahright

Originally posted by truenorth
BTW, I worked with a guy that fought Tyson professionally, can anyone figure out who it is?

George Chuvalo?

I ain't that old. Mind you my next door neighbor has been a friend of his all of his life as both he and his father boxed. Maybe an interview is possible. Is that worthy? No gaurantees though, George is a busy man.

I'll guess Donovan "Razor" Ruddock.

Nope, he wasn't as know as Razor but he was good enough to become the Canadian heavyweight champ.

Frank Bruno? I know I am reaching a bit.

No one could take a punch like Chuvalo. Never knocked down in his entire career. He took 15 rounds of pounding from Ali, yet never went down.

Originally posted by BaseballHistoryNut
TRD,

Did you ever see Randy "Tex" Cobb? What did you think of his "boxing" skills?

BHN

I havnt seen any of his fights, i will have to go find a VHS or DVD and take a look..