faith and change

recently a post was made asking "what religion you are". i'd like to take it a step further and find out what changes you have made. so in other words , if you were born into one faith but chose another latter in life i'd like to know about it and why you changed your faith or belief.

i was brought up with christianity.... was told to read the bible and say prayers. prayers wernt answered, bible contradicted itself. my conclusion : christianity is an utter load of steaming bollocks which people THINK they understand.

didnt mean to offend anyone

i was born a pentecostal and am still a pentecostal.

i stay with one religion for my life.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
i was brought up with christianity.... was told to read the bible and say prayers. prayers wernt answered, bible contradicted itself. my conclusion : christianity is an utter load of steaming bollocks which people THINK they understand.

didnt mean to offend anyone

well if you dont understand Bible then God just didnt open your mind to it.

there must be a reason for it.


when you try to understand it then God will open your mind to it.

like it says in the Bible, if you take a step toward God then God will take two steps toward you.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
i was brought up with christianity.... was told to read the bible and say prayers. prayers wernt answered, bible contradicted itself. my conclusion : christianity is an utter load of steaming bollocks which people THINK they understand.

didnt mean to offend anyone

G.Sage
When you say that you were told to read the Bible and say prayers.......and your prayers were not answered.....what did you ask for?
Was it something personal for you?
Was the prayer meaningful from the heart?
Or was the prayer asked for the benefit of someone?

God always listens to everyone.....you may think He does not, but He does everything for a reason....sometimes US people do not and cannot comprehend why certain things do happen!
How does God want us to pray?

This is the parable ''The publican and the pharisee''

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

The phrases "Two men went up into the temple to pray" begin the Lord's parable. Lord Jesus describes both men in the prayer, inasmuch as "Prayer is a mirror of one's spiritual disposition," according to the holy Fathers of the Church. "Look into this mirror, look at how thou prayest, and thou wilt be able to say unerringly what thy spiritual disposition is." Our prayers show our good and dark sides, our spiritual abasement and spiritual resistence. It is not by chance that The Lenten Triodion service book opens with the sticheron: "Brethren, let us not pray as the Pharisee."

The parable presents the Pharisee as total self-satisfaction. The Pharisee fulfills the law and comes and prays in thanksgiving: "God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess and here I am coming and thanking Thee."

In fact, the Pharisee have some genuine grounds for satisfaction as an member of the intellectual elite, in his own way religious, educated, and well-read. He preserves the beliefs and traditions, fulfills the religious prescriptions, and gives one-tenth of his wealth to Jewish projects. Evidently he is not a bad man, but is regarded with great respect. But his self-satisfaction so dominates his mind that cannot look into his heart, which has forgotten all values that matter at the time of God's Last Judgment.

The other man, the publican, is a tax collector, a profession held in contempt at that time. The publican appears to fulfill no part of the law at all. Sensing his worthlessness, he beats his breast and prays: "God be merciful to me a sinner!" The publican concentrates his prayer on his sinfulness before God. He understands all the futility of justification by outward works. So the men of self-satisfaction and repentance are truly opposites.

On one hand, we see the egoist: "God, I thank thee that I am not as other men are." According to Venerable John Climacus, this "shameless parade of our labors" is redundant, because the Lord knows the heart of the Pharisee already. But the Pharisee goes on: "I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, and degrading his neighbor as well - I am not . . . as this publican." Although the Pharisee believes in the Lord and loves Him, and seeks His help, when he degrades his neighbor and exalts himself, he thereby rejects God.

The Pharisee does not even need God.
John Climacus writes that the passion of pride "finds food in gratitude."
For now, the Pharisee is praying, but in a little he will stop praying, because prayer is striving toward God to receive His help. "I have seen people," says Venerable John Climacus, "who thank God with their mouth, but mentally magnify themselves. And this is confirmed by that Pharisee who said ironically: "O God, I thank Thee."

The self-satisfied Pharisee's worst error is to condemn others.
Love has dried up in him, and condemnation of others and contempt for them has taken love's place.
And so the Pharisee forgets what the measurelessness of mercy and calculates his virtuous quantity: "I fast twice in the week, I give tithes."

God does not need calculations.
He wants men's hearts. To quantify good works can lead only to formalistic Pharisaism. The Lord says, "That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20). Note the Savior's words "except your righteousness shall exceed." With these words, the Lord evaluates the Pharisees' spiritual life.

"Pride is the annihilation of virtue," says John Climacus. Ancient books and old popular prints show the Pharisee and the publican. The Pharisee races along in a chariot while the publican walks on foot, both striving toward the Kingdom of Heaven. At the last moment the Pharisee's chariot breaks down, so that the publican on foot can overtake him. In the struggle of real life, one must learn to balance inward and outward religiosity. One must keep God's commandments and Church regulations. But doing so is no more, according to Climacus, than thinking to swim out of the deep using one hand. One must share the humility of the publican too. The publican, however, went out from the temple better justified before God than before, but he is not-as a tax farmer - yet in the Kingdom of Heaven. In the prayer of Ephraim the Syrian, the teacher of repentance, the prayer "O Lord and Master of my life," we ask to see our own sins and not to judge our brother.

Prayer and good works are vain if done not for God but for vainglory.
According to all Fathers, vainglory is "trust in one's own efforts," "a rejection of God,"
"a driving away of His help."
Doing something for show is not to render to God what is due, not to return the talent of gold to Him multiplied-"This is Thine."
The devil met a certain Holy Father and said to him: "I am like thee in all things, except one: thou dost not sleep, and I keep vigil; thou fastest, and I eat nothing; but thou vanquishest me with humility." The faithful followers of Christ are known, not by works, but by humility.
I can feed someone in God's name, not ascribing anything to myself - and in this instance I shall have done a truly Christian work. However, if I should do the same thing, but for any other reason, for any other aim - whatever it might be - this work will not be Christ's."

The parable of the publican and the Pharisee is Christ's call to uproot the Pharisaism in each of us. The Church hastens to our aid on the first Sunday before Great Lent, when Her Divine services reads: "Come, learn from both the Pharisee and from the publican. From the one learn his works, but by no means his pride; for the work by itself means nothing and does not save.
But remember that the publican also is not yet saved, but is only more justified before God than the Pharisee, who was adorned with virtues."

Let us remember Christ's words: "Every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" (Luke 18:14).

stmaryofegypt.org...

I dont think that the Bible contradicted itself at all!
Do we take time to know what God is realy telling us?
Do we keep the 10 commandment as they are?
God will answer prayers if truly they meet in the heart and soul of the person.....but again, prayer is mysterious and God will do what will benefit that person......maybe not in this world, but the for Eternity,which is far too hard for us people to try and see what is in store for us!

here is another parable to read...on Humility...
home.it.net.au...

The Bible is not a book but life; because its words are "spirit and life" (John 6:63).
Therefore its words can be comprehended if we study them with the spirit of its spirit, and with life of its life.
It is a book that must be read with life - by putting it into practice. One should first live it, and then understand it. Here the words of the Savior apply: "Whoever is willing to do it - will understand that this teaching is from God" (John 7:17).


In every instance, the Savor"s parable about the sower and the seed can be applied to every one of us. The seed of Divine Truth is given to us in the Bible. By reading it, we sow that seed in our own soul. It falls on the rocky and thorny ground of our soul, but a little also falls on the good soil of our heart - and bears fruit. And when you catch sight of the fruit and taste it, the sweetness and joy will spur you to clear and plow the rocky and thorny areas of your soul and sow it with the seed of the word of God.

The beginning of wisdom is to listen to God"s word (Matt. 7:24-25).
Every word of the Savior has the power and the might to heal both physical and spiritually ailments.
"Say the word and my servant will be healed" (Matt. 8:8).
The Savior said the word - and the centurion"s servant was healed.
Just as He once did, the Lord even now ceaselessly says His words to you, and to me, and to all of us.
But we must pause, and immerse ourselves in them and receive them - with the centurion"s faith.
And a miracle will happen to us, and our souls will be healed just as the centurion"s servant was healed.

.He still does this today, because the Lord Jesus "is the same yesterday and today and forever"(Heb. 13:8).


In each word of the Saviour there is more eternity and permanence than in all heaven and earth with all their history. Hence He said: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away" (Matt. 24:35)... If a man accepts them, he is more permanent than heaven and earth, because there is power in them that immortalizes man and makes him eternal.

Learning and fulfilling the words of God makes a person a relative of the Lord Jesus.
He Himself revealed this when He said:
"My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and carry it out" (Luke 8:21).
In learning from the Bible, a certain blessedness floods the soul which resembles nothing on earth. The Savior spoke about this when He said,
"Blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it"(Luke 11:28).

Words Of The Word
Great is the mystery of the word - so great that the second Person of the Holy Trinity, Christ the Lord, is called "the Word" or "the Logos" in the Bible. God is the Word(John 1:1).
All those words which come from the eternal and absolute Word are full of God, Divine Truth, Eternity, and Righteousness.
If you listen to them, you are listening to God.
If you read them, you are reading the direct words of God.
God the Word became flesh, became man (John 1:14), and mute, stuttering man began to proclaim the words of the eternal truth and righteousness of God.

www.fr-d-serfes.org...

never say that God does not listen to prayer...It is not that God does not listen!
God listens, we just dont pay attention to what He is saying to us!
helen....

And G.Sage....Im sure you haven't offended anyone!

we all make mistakes, many ,many mistakes, but the Lord is forgiving .





[Edited on 12/7/2003 by helen670]

I was born into a christian family, and lived went to church for many years with my parents, and was baptised/born again, and the whole nine yards... I continued to live my life as a christian, but in my heart I never felt happy. People would say "having christ in your heart is the best thing ever, and with that you'll have eternal happiness, in your heart, and you'll have inner joy, etc." Yet, I never felt that inner joy everyone spoke of. I continued to read the bible, go on retreats, and pray, looking for joy, and peace in my life...

One day at work, I was sent to shoot photos of a buddhist monestary in the city, for a pamphlet. While I was there I noticed that everyone there was so at peace, and had a smile on them. I sensed an overwhelming presence there, one of awe, respect, and peace. After I was done with the job, and was back home, I was so moved by what I felt I decided to return back to the monestary, and one of the older monks there was kind enough to share some words with me, and give me a book ("what the buddha taught.") I read the book cover to cover, and began to adapt my life to my new found knowledge. I still lived as a christian, just with a new awareness of life, as per buddhism.

After a year of more reading, and learning about buddhism, I got into a discussion with a pastor of my church, and he claimed that The Buddha was a tool of satan, and a deciever of men. He made claims that were totally unheard before. He claimed that Buddha thought he was a god, and he thought he was the saviour of man... when anyone who has done ANY indepth reading on buddhism knows that this couldnt be any more further from the truth. Finally after about 2 years more of studying, spending time at the monestary, and reading the major buddhist texts, I decided to make the jump. I moved foward, and decided to live my life as a buddhist, and scince then my heart has been elated, and filled with joy, due to my decision.

I was born a Roman Catholic.

I have made some of my "custom" adjustments. I have changed things around in such things as praying, good deeds, etc.

I have tried to make a "friend" relationship with God, and I have felt very good actually. I still worship in Churches, but I feel I have a 'closer' relationship with God..

My opinions,

-wD

Well, I was baptized under Roman Catholicism. My mother was faithful in the power of God. So was my grandmother.

I believe in God, but I cannot claim what form God takes.

My mind expanded beyond one religion, which led me to others--which is a product of our increased global consciousness. I came across Taoism, and I pretty much like the ideas in it.

It seems I will never get rid of my faith in God, because it is so embedded in my being. Those roots have been firmly established.

Because my mind expands, I take all that is good, combining it all to create meaning, order, beauty, power, and harmony for my life.

I was born without religion. My mother believes in god, and my father doesn't. I went to Sunday school with a friend in my neighborhood. On the bus, we sang songs like, "123 The Devil's After Me", and "Jesus Loves Me". I got the distinct feeling that it was just not right. Something was very wrong with the whole thing, but I continued until I couldn't stand it anymore. But that wasn't the end of my "faith". I believed in god (or at least was open to the possibility) up until I was maybe 14 yrs old. My family split up, and I prayed more than I'd ever prayed for about 2 years straight. All I asked for was peace in my family, and ultimately, help them to overcome their differences. Not only did this never happen, things only got worse. I'm not going to go much deeper into this, because it would take the rest of my life to explain how many times I've been let down by god.
Eventually, I decided that I'd try not praying. I found that there was absolutely no difference. Everything was just as random as before. The only difference I'd really found, was that I was a much stronger person. I had gained my own inner strength and a new found faith in myself. I never looked back. Sure, I had many discussions with people of all types of religion, looking for the truth. All I ever got was a bunch of BS and scripture quotes that basically said god loves me, even though he appears to hate me.
I decided that these people were all quite delusional, and it became very apparent to me that they really wanted to believe in god, and attribute all good things in their lives to him.
Still, I had never thought of myself as an agnostic, until later years...probably when I reached 21 or so.
I finally reached the conclusion that there is no god. I also reached the conclusion that I can't prove there isn't a god anymore than anyone else can prove there is one. Therefore, I declared myself 100% agnostic. Honestly, if there is a god, he's a cruel SOB that doesn't deserve worship. If there isn't a god, well then, this is just a tradition, as is telling children there's a Santa Claus to make them behave.

[Edited on 12-8-2003 by Satyr]

When I was a kid I used to laugh at the Christians. My neighbour once brought me to Sunday school, where I learned about the fish. I never returned there. But we managed to make up for that with a couple of twists. Believe it or not, but I found God in a book about math. I received visions which all seem to be fulfilled one way or the other. I also received the first of my new names. A name of turning. Later I have received many names and more revelations and blessings. My God has opened the Scriptures for me and guided me with his uncomprehensible and loving Spirit. But my path has full of struggle since I found my God. My name is written everywhere. Before the Earth was made, my soul was shining in the Heavens.

I am a thorn in the hip of England, a pain in Jacob, but also a blessing. When I was born, my soul's head was a bringer of war, and many morningstars greeted me. Four Seraphim stood before the Lord of Hosts, in the morning the day I came forth. Like one. My soul was to his right. My God was on my left hand side. The bow was lifted to greet him. The right hand showed the sign of victory and woe. Below my soul was a river. A chariot of fire held my soul above the water. Stars showed me the Way. If it is the will of my God, I will repay the blood of prophets. Make penance for their spilled blood. Make up for suffering and pain. Even of the scales. Blessings and curses is my Way. The Law was written with my God's blood. His blood is running through my heart. Vengeance is mine and I will repay! God is Love! God is One! One Love! Love the One God! A Magniffisent Plan is the Plan of God.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

im not keen on wasting my life on a piece of # book.
two examples - honestly nothing special, there are much more absurd ones.... these are the first ones i found....

1)
Pr.15:3
"The eyes of the Lord are in every place."
Gen.11:5
"And the Lord came down to see the city and the town."


2)
Gen.32:30
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Jn.1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time."

"Isaiah 13:16
Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."


yes...... nice.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
im not keen on wasting my life on a piece of # book.
two examples - honestly nothing special, there are much more absurd ones.... these are the first ones i found....

1)
Pr.15:3
"The eyes of the Lord are in every place."
Gen.11:5
"And the Lord came down to see the city and the town."


2)
Gen.32:30
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Jn.1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time."

have you ever read this "piece of # book" to get educated or just to bash it? you are no better then the fundamentalists who try and shove their belief down your throat. you shut the door on your own education. i am no holy roller by any means. i was born episcopalian ...never followed. my father began to follow the baptist when i was a teen and was recently "born again" my husband is roman catholic. needless to say my debates with the 2 most important men in my life get quite heated. i love them both but their blind faith and willingness to except other possibilities appalls me! i guess i would just have to label my self a student. i don't know enough about any of the religions to make a decision . their are so many similarities in them all ...why cant they all be correct? isn't it said somewhere "that all roads lead to me"? i am currently reading the book of enoch and am wondering why such a book was chosen to be left out ...here is a man that supposedly walked in the heavens yet his words were found unfit for the bible?



[Edited on 8-12-2003 by MAKESUGOHMMMM]

Originally posted by Russian
i stay with one religion for my life.

Are you implying that it is better to stay with the religion you were born in, no matter what, even if the religion in question is complete crap, or if one have good reasons enough to question is own religion? Way to go...



I was born christian, I didn't saw any need for religion in my life, so I dropped it. Later, I found out that religions sucks big time (just my opinion). But I found some interest into religion like boudhism, taoism and wicca.

I can say I share beliefs with many religion, but doesn't completly conform to any religion.

Just my thoughts:

I was raised Roman Catholic. I,oved the mass: the ritual of it, and still do. But I think I liked them, not becuase it had to do with God; I liked them because they were beautiful, plain and simple.
As I grew older, I started to really question my faith. Whi did I believe that one man died for my sins? What's with all the hypocrisy in the Bible? But most importantly: why did I believe in a faith that has it's roots in the desert. I mean, Palm Sunday? I'm Croatian and English, my ancestors didn't even know what palms were. How did they become to believe this?
That's when I started digging. I read alot about the conversion of Europe, much of it wrttien one-sided. That is also when I really departed from the Church. To me, the 3 main middle eastern religions are just that: religions for those from the middle-east. They can bow, be afraid, and try to seek paradise. For me, I will just strive to do the best I can, be the best I can, and try to live in peace with everyone else, although they may not want the same from me.

I was raised by a Roman Catholic Father and a Jewish mother.
I couldn't understand why the Jews (Zharkavian Zions) rejected Christ or why the Roman Catholics prayed to statues of dead people and angels and whatnot...

I turned out a (Conservative/Protestant) Christian.
- Tass

Edit: I left out something....

A few years ago I started messing around with "the dark side" and I wa doing some funky shyte....
Pyrokinesis, Firewalking, Talking to animals, dead people, angels, demons, brainwashing people and a few others.
Very real and very unrighteous. I almost lost myself back then. I'm a devout Christian now and proud of it.

I really don't want to put up details as I don't want to encourage the occult; if you desire details, you can take the time to u2u or e-mail me.

- Tass

[Edited on 8-12-2003 by Tassadar]

As I stated elsewhere, I was raised a Southern Baptist. A very straightforward pious Republican churchgoing kid. In my teen years, I saw the other side of christianity in the lives of my friends from church. Two different and very separate lives were being lived by many kids. One side for the parents and parishioners and the other reserved for the rest of the world. I was repulsed at the sinful lives these kids were living and how god must see them as failures in his eyes. Rock music, dating, reading filthy books like the lord of the rings, filled with references to satanism and witchcraft.
But then it dawned on me.
Is this what god is worried about?
Really?
Thus began my journey to find god's place and meaning for my life.
It all came to clarity for me while I was working as a Paramedic on an ambulance service. I came to believe that bad things happen to good people and prayer is only self-comfort. I have prayed, with every fiber of my being, with tears streaming down my face, begging, pleading for god to help the person I was trying to resuscitate to come around. I have prayed for stillness in my soul when I had seen too much. I have prayed for others to feel peace when their child has died. I prayed for strength to continue while my own life fell apart around me.
I never felt the presence.
You could easily say that god worked through me in the times I was successful in bringing someone back, but it could have also been the thousands of hours I spent training. It doesn't matter if you are a preacher or a heathen, the forces of nature and the cycle of life are what determine your fate. Not a creator/destroyer as such.
I really have no beef with god or christianity, it just does not work for me. Surrounded, as I am, by christians, I respect their beliefs and hope for the same from those who know mine.
Yes, I do believe in a religion, one that provides me with the inner peace that I always yearned for. But for now, I'll keep it to myself.

Acceptance without requirement.
I like that. What a great philosophy for a god to have.
Now, if only...

At Peace,

BG

Originally posted by GeniusSage
"Isaiah 13:16
Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."


yes...... nice.

You're either not very smart, or you are a bitter looser. This is not a command, it is a prophecy. As is most of the dreadful things that are written in the bible. I read one place that 28% of the bible is dedicated to prophecy. I'd say 96% of the bible is dedicated to prophecy. The rest is probably just mistakes. Nobody's perfect. Trust me, I know.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by GeniusSage
im not keen on wasting my life on a piece of # book.
two examples - honestly nothing special, there are much more absurd ones.... these are the first ones i found....

1)
Pr.15:3
"The eyes of the Lord are in every place."

Every star on the Heaven is an eye of God. The Sun is a star, it's just bigger since it's closer.

Gen.11:5
"And the Lord came down to see the city and the town."

Firstly, I have caught you lying. You accuse Moses of lying. Lying wasn't his sin. Thoughtless pride was. "Falseness on the tongue wounds the soul." I know that. For it doesn't say "the city and the town". It says the city and the tower. Secondly: If you didn't see it happen, how can you say that God didn't? And if you did see it, how could it be impossible for God? Have you been walking too much backwards lately? Can't you hear his breath?

2)
Gen.32:30
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Jn.1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time."

Nei! I'm No1, and my God is Love. I see Love everywhere!

Now leave me and God's children alone already.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by m0rbid

Originally posted by Russian
i stay with one religion for my life.

Are you implying that it is better to stay with the religion you were born in, no matter what, even if the religion in question is complete crap, or if one have good reasons enough to question is own religion? Way to go...

Why are you trying to hurt him? Haven't you read that it's written: "We worship God to an odour that brings life". What is so horrible with #e? Hehe....

(Oh yes, I stole that one....)

I was born christian, I didn't saw any need for religion in my life, so I dropped it. Later, I found out that religions sucks big time (just my opinion). But I found some interest into religion like boudhism, taoism and wicca.

So that's what Buddha's called in your world? Hehe. This is quite fun. I used to be a good runner, and somehow I have still got many friends, and not all of them are dead.

I can say I share beliefs with many religion, but doesn't completly conform to any religion.

The bible is the only book I have found that has the potential of becoming clean. God is the Alfa and the Omega. The Alef and Tav. The A and the �. The first and the last. I have said many wicked things in my life and judged without thinking. I agree that religion is a yoke. But Christ's yoke is a light yoke. It works better than most other things when it comes to justice and rightiousness. He who is wise in the Tannakh and the New Testament, can walk through lava without burning himself. I once fell asleep with a foot on the grill. I didn't realize I had a third degree burn until the day after. Blessed are the marthyrs. They have saved me many times. So be wise, study the scriptures if you want to live. Oh my! Is the water level in Euphrates sinking? Someone is in a hurry it seems.....

Blessings,
Mikromarius