The Catholic religious right.

Before I start, I wanna make it clear that this isn't just some anti-Catholic flame. It's an expression of my genuine concerns with the Catholic church, specifically as it has expressed the separation of Church and State as an error (1861) and has numerous times throughout history directed the course of sovereign nations.

Specifically, I refer to the religious right, and to some statements made by Father Malachi Martin, a former Jesuit, in his tape series "The Reign of Darkness". Amongst other things, on the issue of religious freedom he said:

"This [religious freedom] is nonsense. No-one has the right to be wrong."

Later on, he attacked Wiccan military chaplains, calling Wiccans "Satanists".

Why can't the Catholic right just give up on its theocratic beliefs and fall in line with the rest of the world?

Hmm wouldn't have guessed Wiccans would have military chaplains....hmm I wonder if the same man would beat up a buddhist monk as a satanist?

Sincerely,
no signature

Yes, we do have some military chaplains of our faith... and a few prison chaplains, too.

And if you think HE gets bent out of shape at the notion that we have chaplains around, you should hear the Pentecostals on the same subject.

Well, I guess there are soon going to be more of us than of them, eh?

Well, I can't answer for the Catholics, but I assure you that you will outnumber the Christians; all we're waiting for is the sound of our Master's voice and we're out of here! Then you can have this place - for a while.
When it happens, don't forget what you've probably heard about the 7 years. The Holy Spirit won't be around to help you, and it'll mean your death at the hands of the anti-Christian types, but do it anyway.
Or, disregard this. I'm only trying to help.

What? Are you saying Christians right and we wrong and gonna die for being against christianity? I never thought you would say such a thing! Oh well, opinion is opinion, science is fact.

James, you ain't too bright, are you? (Kidding, Bud, don't get hacked)

If you understand Christianity at all you know that God says that there is one way to Him and that is through His Son. That doesn't leave any options, huh? What, do you think He'd bother allowing His Son pay the price for our transgressions if there was another way? Seriously.

Science isn't fact, by the way. It is the search for facts using a set of rules and methods. It doesn't always come up with all the facts, and as time passes and technology evolves, science gets better at searching out the facts. What once was viewed as "fact" according to scientists is now not, while other "facts" have replaced the old. Lucy, for example, was claimed to be the oldest found human. Later, it was discovered that that "fact" was incorrect, and she was merely an extinct ape. I say merely, although that in itself is facinating to me. I love science (although I spend little time reading about it) and especially the thoughts of archeology, although the 2 classes I took in college kicked my skinny pale butt all over the campus!

Well, science searches for it as you said. Religon says this is so, if you say different, you burn in hell. How can you support such an idea? You have to follow, you have to be a sheep, no questions asked, or you are punished.

If we did that, this wouldn't exist. ATS is a search for answers, not a baa, baa, sheep following what we are told. That is what pisses me off the most about most religons, are way or be punished.

Wicca, do what one wilt as long as ye harm none. Based on the old religon wiped out by Catholics who said our way or punishment. Hell, old witchcraft was first shrink, first doctor, midwife, pharmicist, meteorologist(sp?), and religon. Started at about 33 thousand years ago. Second oldest, Druidism. Yet both wiped out for not being sheep by the Catholics. Old druids did perform sacrifices, and it was an honor, weren't forced. Then with old witchcraft, they did their version of a prayer when they used a plant for it was giving its life force for them.

Yes, that is what the Bible says. But Mauslim says different. The others say different. Hindu, Buhdda(budda?buddah?) Taoism, Danism, Judism, all say different. So who is right? The first one, the newest one? The one with most followers? the least? Can anyone answer that? With all of the religons out there, who can be sure their's is the real one, if any?

And when I say can anyone answer that, no truth, I don't mean god talks to you and says you right, or JM the Bible says and everyone else is going to hell, or the only truth that only whites are "pure". I mean proof! Actual evidence that proves that this certain religon is the real one. Don't use the books, for they books, not proof. Don't say look around you, for all the religons can say that.

And don't say god talks to you D*MN IT!!! I've heard that enough with no proof truth. If he does, and all knowing, what is my middle and last name? What is the name of the first road I lived on? What is the apartment number I live on? You can't, for you don't have a "god" talking to you.: mad:: mad:: mad:

Originally posted by James the Lesser
What is the name of the first road I lived on? What is the apartment number I live on? You can't, for you don't have a "god" talking to you.

Hmm I think Thomas Crowne's god is going to start "speaking" to him a bit more now that you said that

Let's just hope he doesn't tell him to do anything stupid.

Sincerely,
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Thomas what you are saying is that One day the Lord God Almighty is going to appear on Earth one. This the one responsible for creating the known Universe and Beyond. Is going to wipe out all human life (there souls to) with exception of those who acknowledge the appropriate interpretation of the KJV?

Common Thomas we are talking Billions of people. How many people do you think will survive such an event?

Its seems fantastically horrible Thomas to kill so many people because of what they think. Personally I can understand serial killers, people guilty of war crimes and maybe even Howard Stern. But beyond that your talking about mass murder.

Common Thomas you have got to be kidding me right. What your suggesting is akin to a game show, think about it how many Christians sects are there who claim they are the true word of God? Why make the assumptions the big Institutions are the right ones? Thomas its enough to drive a person crazy and you what. I think that in some circumstances it probably has.

Think of it this way Thomas what if your wrong and its the other guys. Would you want to be responsible for that?

Beyond that Thomas Killing people because of what they think that is what Christians did in the old days. Are you implying that God thinks that was the right thing to do?

James, chill out. you go off for no reason at all.

cant you ever conversate "normally"

the thing that will come in the very near future is the great chastisement.

The world will be cleansed of all impurity by god. After this the ones left on
earth will have an era of peace.

how do i know??

I believe the saints, mary, jesus, the prophets.

why?

something you cant understand because of the lack of faith which is
"miracles"

Toltec, many prophecies from saints say one quarter of the earth will be left.

this chastisement will interact with the stuff on my other post including the mark of
the beast which is the veri chip implant.

There will come a comet that will be from god, God will also let man chastise themselves through nuclear biological weapons.

basically most people even on this website are not going to recognize reality until it hit the world.

god is just and i have no control over him, but am happy justice for "evil" intentions
will be demolished.

now i know you dont believe in jesus, but before, "before" the chastisement you will get the sign of him
in the sky. this will be your test to see if you will accpt him or not.

You can laugh until you die but remember these words "when" "if" you live to see this.

remember.


james said....

"" God talks to you, do you know where i live, what apartment ""

I dont care nor want to know, thats not what im trying to do.

you live on "earth", how about that. i want you to come home james nomater where you live.


also enough goerge carlon.

I heard his Gods all love but send you to a suffering place speach, "but he loves you"

If he knew "anything" about the bible and took the time to "read" it he would realize
that God does not send a man to hell unless he wills to be there and chooses to seperate
from god for eternity.

Would you allow someone who hates you be around you??

exactly.

peace.



[Edited on 12-11-2002 by Truth]

Truth in the days the Bible was written the known Universe extended out to the Orbit of Saturn, 1/4 of the population of the Earth was about 200,000 people.

At present the known Universe is 13,000,000,0000 light years in circumference and 1/4 of the earth surviving means more than 4,000,000,000 dead.

If you were telling me this in 1611 I would think that, given what was known then that there was reason for concern. But such an act under these circumstances is Overtly a Crime.. Further more to TC you will be amongst the dead. For you TC in the same situation, Ask TC about Jehovah�s Witnesses and he will in all probability, say they are dead meat. Ask NC and he will probably respond in the same way about 7th day Adventist. Literally the situation is sick, A God of the level of power that this God has does not need to send a comet, a thought would suffice and whom should anyone believe?

It sounds very much like something is being taken literally. From a culture that was as backwards, by comparison to us as cave men were to them.

What they thought of God was reflected in what they believed about their surroundings and they were wrong.

Believing or not believing in Christ is not an evil intention. Not maintaining a moral code, which takes into consideration the rights of others for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, is.

And as well is freedom to think what one wants. As long as that thought does not result in action, which violates another person�s basic rights.

Again truth I am from a culture which does assert that Jesus was in their presence after his death and resurrection.

And what is being stated here is, was and will forever be well beneath this individuals intelligence, honor and love for souls. He was well above all this behavior
you are claiming he is not.

Originally posted by Truth
something you cant understand because of the lack of faith which is "miracles"

Hmm truth...we CAN understand it, just because we choose to percieve it differently, some see it as coincidenses...I see it as fate...does not mean we don't understand it.

And Toltec, the universe is way bigger than that...it's RADIUS is 13,000,000,000 or so light years...the circumfrence, is HUGE

And Truth, in all honesty, I doubt the survivors of a super purge of life on this planet, is going to be the "Chaste" of society. In fact, I doubt christianity would survive in its present form, its believers being so shaken by the events, they'd become as fanatical if not more so than muslims...and many surviving would of course turn to religions, and when ever someone turns to something for help, they always allow them to become more dictatoral and brutal, than normal.

Look at Nazi Germany, Communist Russia...China...all communist nations. Freedom must be carefully balanced on an all too sadly thin blade.

Hmm Truth, an interesting note is it was the appostle Peter or whoever that said Jesus won't be coming for a long time (to sum it up) because he as many others lived through the time when jesus...as preached by his deciples...SHOULD have come, and 1000 years from now...people will simply redefine God's day to being 10,000 years, instead of 1,000.

Originally posted by Truth
If he knew "anything" about the bible and took the time to "read" it he would realize that God does not send a man to hell unless he wills to be there and chooses to seperate from God for eternity.

Don't mean to be rude when I say....Yeah whatever! God commands you do MANY things, many of which go against the VERY nature of humanity. And if you don't follow them to the inth degree that is determined by men on earth...then you are cast down into hell.

Now you can continue to convince yourself that that is a freedom of choice, but the way I see it is this:

When we excersise free will we go to hell, if we fall in line, and bow our heads to the slave master...we are let into heave, to work for eternity, in his name.

Originally posted by Truth
Would you allow someone who hates you be around you??

No one would hate god, if God acted the way the bible says he does....
Bible: You need a miracle, god sends angels
Reality: People pray and worship and pray again every day for the famines and wars to be lifte, but their blood still flows and crosses still packed into over croweded cemetaries.
Bible: Jesus will come and "chastise" the world
Reality: He may come, but he sure is taking his damn time with it, why didn't he come before the Holocaust??? Oh nevermind, that's right, BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS NOT CHRISTIANS!
Bible: The world was created in 6 days
Reality: God didn't create day until day 4
Bible: We are the sheep he is the shepered
Reality: Shepereds chase after the flock...not let it run away for 2000+ years

Hmm I guess that's enough....you can make up your own if you'd like.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 12-11-2002 by FreeMason]

Good point, Freemason!

So many things in the Bible have been proven untrue... I find it incredible that people still believe that God is coming to wipe us all out except for His "true believers".

They've been waiting for 2000 years and nothing has happened.

But, thank heaven, we are now living in an era where Christians must live just like anybody else. Their religion is not given superiority over ours, and we will not stoop to their level and give ours superiority over theirs. (at least I hope not!)

[Edited on 11-12-2002 by ~iluv2act~]

Originally posted by Byrd And if you think HE gets bent out of shape at the notion that we have chaplains around, you should hear the Pentecostals on the same subject.

I'm Pentacostal & I haven't gotten bent out of shape over this...

Actually, when I was in the military, I had the opportunity for discussing some things with the Chief Chaplin on the base...
I asked him which religions he was qualified to represent if approached by any given person. His response was that, even though he was a Chaplin *before* joining the Navy, they taught him *many* different faiths & denominations so that he could be a "reasonably fair" representitive for most of the different religions.

I also asked him how the military can possibly justify killing in wartime when God has told us that killing is wrong. His reply sounded reasonably honest, in that he still had trouble justifying that in his own mind, but that if there's no other means to stop someone from continuing to kill others, then that's what must be done to save other lives. In other words, the 'ol "self-defense" excuse. He explained further that God knows the some people thrive on the killing of others & that they *should* be stopped in order to save more lives in the long run...But he also qualified the "self-defense" killing as when it's "the *only* way to stop the other from killing". If at all possible, try to *stop* the killer without killing him in turn.

I stand corrected FM but to be honest whatever circumference you have in mind, my impression is that the reality is on a scale far larger that anyone on Earth has yet to imagine.

Truth and TC having a vision of the future is actually a very common experience, to one who is properly trained these experiences take on a new dimension (something that is understood and very clear).

It�s apparent that "allegedly" during the first century after the death and resurrection of Christ. A person who was well trained had a vision. He saw a disaster; one of proportions which devastated the planet (often referred to as a mass extinction). He saw what was left of society reasserting itself under bad leadership and he saw a resurgence of just and morally oriented government (conceivably under the auspices of a prophet).

OK mass extinction occurs, bad leaders do gain control of masses of people. Good leaders do come along and make things better. And the only part that really should be accountable to God is the latter.

Throughout history, mankind has sought refuge in the idea that a Deity (or deities) causes calamities because of their disfavor with the actions of people (those that do this inevitably fall under the label of having been bad leaders). Time and time again what has been found to be correct (i.e....Solar Eclipses, earthquake�s and even world floods) is that they are the result of the process of Nature (Sun moon Dynamics, Earth Tectonics and potentially Pole Shifts)

That God created nature does not in and of itself, portend to any of these events (In which destruction is evident on a large scale) to be the result of his disfavor. Its about getting back to the fact that the world we live in is a part of a much larger system (reality). One which one day could make life on this planet very difficult or even non-existent. Standing alive after such an event (mass extinction) and claiming, that what has happened was the result of God punishing man, because of what he and she were thinking is irresponsible. Look carefully at history at the people who came to power. This under the guise of professing that Gods anger at the masses resulted. In something in nature what harmed others, it does not work out they way they thought it would in every circumstance.

And to be honest is not the better part of Valor

What are your thoughts?

Jesus will come again. He will judge the living and the dead. But the faithless can save themselves from Hell.

If they follow the Ten Commandments' ideals they will be saved.

He will damn the evil, heretics, and the faithless to torment in Hell.

Yes we have been waiting 2,000 years for Jesus to come, he will come after the apocalyspe. [ excuse my horrible spelling]

JM there exist no culture which has in there history something akin to the Ten commandments.

Each culture defines heretics in relation to those who do not adhere to their system of belief (this including sects within the faiths of cultures).

There are as well very few cultures which do not acknowledge that Jesus existed and was in there presence. As well do most cultures claim an alternative person who was born of a virgin and was accepted as a prophet of peace.

Freemason, you got it "all" wrong.

listen man.

God created us, our fngers, our nose, our bodies.

he lets us wake up everyday.

we have no right to live or breath, who in the world are "we" to say what freewill is and to
think we "deserve" to live ???

We are creatures who God places here.

god tells us his will that will "perfect" us and gives us his
"commands" of perfection.

if the whole world followed the ten commands of God you 'know" there
would be nothing but peace.

And yet you act like this is a forcing issue rather than a for our own perfection.

God gives these commands for our own good so we can live in happiness.

Now God will punish those who hate the commands and are evil and who hate him.

Who in the world are we to judge gods punishment?

do we not deserve it?

yet we have so much "pride" in our little evil hearts that deserve to live and can
believe what we want.

That not correct. God revealed himself to the prophets and told them he is the one, this is the only
belief because im the one that created the 'earth" and the humans.

This was accompanied by miracles and visions and prophets, and finnaly jesus, and after jesus
millions of miracles have been done in his name.

he gives you proof, you either do not want to acept it, or you do not look up the truth
hes given you.

true free will is following the commands of god so we may have pure peace on earth.

but on the contrary, what do you see today??

pure peace??

No.

why?

because those who believe in "free will" thats not gods.

this is the dead honost truth.

peace.

I see. You would rather live in a theocracy which suppresses anyone who doesn't agree with your views. Like Iran. Like the Taliban. I see.

Well, go ahead and vote for Pat Buchannan. Thank God, he will never win.