Combat Shotguns (an attempt at an intelligent post)

About shotguns, mostly Saiga.. being fired..
(Videos..)

Link!



You can also see 'stakeout type of Baikal' beign fired..

The recoil is something else with that!



Heres one about Saiga 12 shooting heavy slug or pellet loads..

And as you can see it also has heavy recoil.. that doesnt permit rapid fire!

Give data, then vote. Once again, options are:

HK CAWS
Benelli Nova tactical
Mossberd 590A1
Saiga 12k
Remington Model 870 Marine Magnum

Vote! Give information! BEHOLD!

DE

Vote?

As there is no poll(s) around here?



Cant we just talk about these?

Ummm... you may. Comparison is encouraged. Pics and specs are also encouraged.

DE

I have to agree and say that this little number( Mossberg M590A1 Compact) is magic. No bull#, no gimmicks, just power, reliablilty, good shot spread in a short distance, good clip size and good manoueverability in confined areas. These things and the ability to conserve ammo because of it are what keeps you alive. Red dot sights and all the other stuff are fine when you're showing your pride and joy off to your friends, but shottys are all about the business end of "point and shoot".
You only want it to do a small number of things after all. Reload reliably, and waste everything in front of where you point it. All the other stuff is just christmas wrapping and doesn't impress the guy that your shooting at. If the gun works, he doesn't get time to see whats going on anyways....lol
i mean here's the perfect solution......problem------->BANG!!!!------> problem solved.

i am not a member of your fourm but you should all look at the aa-12 it is as of now the most formost in automatic shotguns. and in case your wondering it is made by the ssame man that made the mp5

MAUL

MAUL™ is a lightweight, modular, 12 gauge, 5 shot, semi automatic shotgun for both military and law enforcement users. It has been designed to deliver shotgun capabilities for non-lethal and lethal munitions. All this capability weighs in at only 1.8 lb making it one of the lightest semi-automatic, 12 gauge weapons ever developed for its purpose. MAUL™ can fire 5 rounds as fast as the user can pull the trigger, and can be rapidly reloaded in one smooth movement by inserting another 5 round munition tube into the receiver.

www.metalstorm.com...

Saiga 12 for Combat

Reason:
Yes pumps are reliable and you can use door breachers and non-lethal rounds reliably, but for combat they are slow. Also, fully loaded you carry the weight of the ammunition up front under the barrel with tube magaizines. This makes it slower to manuever. The Saiga, like nearly all assualt rifles, carries the weight of the ammunition in the middle which makes for a more balanced, better handling platform.

I'll take the Saiga because I can change mags and be fully charged in the time it takes to reload 2-3 rounds in the pump. Semi Auto is the only way to go in combat. Sometimes the situation does not give you the time to fire and reload at your pace.

Same reason I exclude the Benelli, yes it's semi auto but tube magazines SUCK for combat. If you're in a building and you don't know whats around the corner you want to reload FAST.

Using full power buckshot and slugs loads the Saiga is reliable. I do wish the mag changes were as fast and realiable as an M4/AR15 though.

Originally posted by Exmar

Same reason I exclude the Benelli, yes it's semi auto but tube magazines SUCK for combat. If you're in a building and you don't know whats around the corner you want to reload FAST.

Really? We've been issued with the Benelli M4 with 7 shot tube for use in Afghanistan, and post-combat reports state that it's just the job.


L128A1 Combat Shotgun


Here you can see the infantryman in the centre carrying it down his side as a secondary weapon. Picture taken at the most recent Infantry Firepower Demo at Warminster

We issue it as a secondary weapon to our point men for use in close country for rapid initial snap engagements. He will also have a rifle for open country or when in full contact. We load with 00 buck for most jobs and slug for VCPs. In close country he will respond to a contact front/left/right by immediately emptying half- or a full load into the direction of the enemy threat while the section takes cover. The firefight then carries on as normal with the shotgunner now able to act as a rifleman.

Having a shotgun as a secondary weapon also allows the point man to rotate through the section efficiently. This is essential during extended ops in order to avoid fatigue. If it was his only weapon he would have to trade it and all of his ammo for an unzeroed rifle during rotation. As a secondary he simply hands over the shotgun and ammo while still retaining his own personally zeroed weapon.

You are looking at the shotgun as a primary weapon which is fine if you can guarantee that the soldier won't have to engage past 50m or so. However most patrols in current settings transition from close vegitation to open country quite regularly, rendering the shotgunner fairly useless.

Even in urban environments the shotgun can be pretty limited when the enemy are firing from behind cover. Many urban engagements occur well outside the effective range of a shotgun.

As for reloading quickly, that just comes down to proper mutual support and correct ground appreciation. In essence you look at the ground to your front and plan your loading accordingly. It's what professional infantrymen do. There is no movement or loading without fire support from your oppo. If I get jumped while reloading my backup will engage.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by PaddyInf]

I recently had a chance to try out two different Tactical Shotgun and here's what I found:

Remington 870 Tactical shotgun:
www.sjgunrefinishing.com...

This weapon is extremely light, comfortable to shoot, and not too expensive.

The Mossberg 500 Tactical shotgun:
world.guns.ru...

This weapon was a remarkable shooting experience. Not as light as the Remington 870, but far more ergonomic. Certainly recommended especially at current prices.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
i am not a member of your fourm but you should all look at the aa-12 it is as of now the most formost in automatic shotguns. and in case your wondering it is made by the ssame man that made the mp5

Atchisson Assult-12 (AA-12)
Type: Semi-auto / full-auto, gas operated
Gauge: 12
Length: 991 mm
Weight: 5.2 kg less magazine. 7.3 kg with loaded 32-round drum
Barrel length: 457 mm
Capacity: 8 round magazine / 20 or 32 round drum
Rate of fire: 350 rounds per minute

See it in action -

www.youtube.com...

not to be a bore or anything but i would go with the tried and trued classic remington model 500...... it just what you want and you can easily modify it with custom or comercial parts and isnt that half of what a combat shotgun is.....personal prefreance so this thread on the "best combat shotgun" is sorta useless because there is no such thing since its the users choice

Shotguns are a great weapon for close combat. They were extremely effective in WW1,the Germans said anyone caught using one would be put to death.