USA Secretly Attempts to Undermine Syrian Government

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I think its a mixture of American actions, and internal factions.
But be honest, had the US never of committed this illegial act, the sectarian strife wouldnt be occuring... correct?

So isnt the killings being committed a direct result from US intervention?

Illegal act?... and still people want to try to play that card...

There was no "illegal act", for years the regime of Saddam was warned, and for years they hid what they were doing even with sanctions in place. There were U.S. intelligence and pretty much every country in the world and their intelligence agencies were saying the same that there were wmd materials and programs which the regime of Saddam were hiding...

Even after the Russians and other intelligence agencies said that it was true that Saddam was planning terrorist attacks, which included Spain, The Czech Republic, and some other countries.... Oh, and btw the authorities in Spain found at least one of the 9/11 terrorist planners who was in Spain that he had been invited by the embassy of Iraq to Spain, and they found evidence which convicted in absence Osama Bin Laden of the 9/11 attacks alongside other terrorists (this coming from Spain and not from the U.S. government) and they found that Iraq was involved in helping some of those terrorists involved in the planning of 9/11....

Even when ex president Clinton said to the Prime minister of Portugal, after the coalition was in Iraq, that the evidence pointed to Saddam having wmd programs hidden...

Even after president Putin came forward and mentioned that the intelligence agencies in his country were providing evidence to the U.S. that Saddam was planning terrorist attacks in the U.S.

Even after documents and recordings of Saddam which show that he wanted to hide those programs and in the early 90s Saddam was already planning to bring these wmd program up again after the west left him alone, and he was planning to make terrorist attacks by using proxies in the U.S. and in England, and yet there are people claiming "it was an illegal action"....

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Muaddib]

Yep illegial act.
Good to see some people are still blindly believing we were right to enter Iraq.
Good for you..

" for years they hid what they were doing "


That to me is similar to what bush said
'' said gave orders to use the weapons, which he says he doesnt have ''

Urrrm, sorry to say dood, but they wernt hiding anything.

what exactly were they trying to hide?

Someone asks you if youve got a car.... and you say you dont... if you ACTUALLY DONT... your not really hiding it are you? I mean how do you hide something you dont have?

Funny that when ever the UN declares something illegial, that the US agrees with, is seen as illegial.. but when the UN declares something the US does as being illegial, well clearly they are wrong.. and the US are right.

yerr riiight....


The USA lied about the weapons of mass destruction.
They lied about the THREAT that Iraq was
they had no PROOF iraq was involved in any terrorist act.
They tried to tell you osama and iraq were in bed together, that also was a lie.

they invaded a country based on all these lies.

sorry to say, but that isnt legal justification for war, no matter you you spin it , and no matter how much cherry powder you sprinkle over it.

far out, there's still people out there that think this war is 'legal'?

your in the same boat as the people who beleive saddam shipped his wmd's off to syria....



[edit on 25-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]

But i like the way you completly side stepped my reponse to your ORIGINAL question..

care to answer my question?


"But be honest, had the US never of committed this (Snip if it makes it easier for you) act, the sectarian strife wouldnt be occuring... correct?

So isnt the killings being committed a direct result from US intervention?
"

Oh yeah i fogot...you are one of those people who think Saddam having empty chemical warheads is no evidence of wmd... I mean Saddam was planning on filling those up with candy and milk just to give it to kids....

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- As U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq entered a new level Thursday, one team discovered empty chemical warheads and international officials began talking tougher about Iraq's responsibility to be more forthcoming about its disarmament efforts in order to avoid a possible military confrontation.

www.cnn.com...

And the banned missiles that were found in scrapyards around the world and were found to have been in possesion of Iraq up to the start of the war are also no evidence of any wmd programs... I mean c'mon...he was only trying to hide some banned missiles which he was also planning on filling up with candy and milk to give to kids....

Iraqi Missile Engines Found in Netherlands, UN Inspectors Say
June 7 (Bloomberg) -- Two engines from Iraqi surface-to-air missiles, including one from an Al Samoud 2 missile banned by the United Nations, have turned up in a scrap yard in the Netherlands, according to UN arms inspectors.

Representatives of the unidentified scrap yard said at least five and as many as 12 similar engines were sent to the Rotterdam location earlier this year, and more may have passed through, according to a report dated May 28 from the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission.

Unmovic, which ran inspections in Iraq before the U.S.-led invasion, said some of the materials may have been taken out of Iraq by looters and sold as scrap. Satellite photos show Iraqi sites subject to international monitoring that have been cleaned out or destroyed, according to the report.

The UN inspectors said the discovery shows the difficulty of accounting for how many banned missiles the regime of Saddam Hussein possessed before he was overthrown in a U.S.-led invasion last year. The U.S.'s Iraq Survey Group is hunting for banned arms in Iraq in the absence of the UN team.

quote.bloomberg.com...

Report: Iraq exported missile components
U.N. monitors scrap metal shipments
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 Posted: 0807 GMT (1607 HKT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Iraq has exported about 130,000 tons of scrap metal to Jordanian trading companies following the U.S.-led invasion, including SA-2 missile engines and equipment that could have been used to make banned weapons, according to U.N. weapons inspectors.

In a report to be presented Wednesday to the U.N. Security Council, the arms experts from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), said they are continuing to monitor scrap yards in Jordan and other countries.

edition.cnn.com...

Oh and the centrifuge parts for enriching uranium which he ordered Iraqi scientists to bury in their backyards that's nothing either... c'mon, just because they had centrifuge parts for enriching uranium doesn't mean he had a wmd program....

C'mon...everyone knows that banned missile technology, empty chemical warheads, essential centrifuge parts for enriching uranium, etc, etc, apart from evidence from the recordings of Saddam, and what other countries found doesn't mean there was a wmd program in Iraq or Saddam was breaking U.S. sanctions...all those are for good purposes....

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Muaddib]

dude, even bush said there wasnt anything.
If there was anything credible he'd be the one person to say so, being its HIS WORD being proven a lie.

and please answer my question, id hate to think you start a debate but ignore statements which suggest your line of thinking is incorrect.

Saddam HAD wmd's back in the 80's.
No one is denying that.
they didnt find any NEW shells, or NEW CHEMICALS.
they found things from his OLDEN DAY STASHES

jee's do you need everythin spelled out to you or something?

haha, your proof is a january 2003 finding of 12 empty shells?

thats your proof of WMD's?

12?

jee's mate...

notice how the same inspectors who were going to TEST the shells, are the same ones who declared NO PROOF HAD BEEN FOUND OF WMD'S ?

so obviously, this 'finding' turned out to be NO PROOF of WMD's.

far out man, you've got about 2yrs of debating on this site to catch up on if this is all youve got about saddams wmd programme.


pathetic mate,

"It is neither chemical, neither biological," Amin said. "It is empty warheads. It is small artillery rockets. It is expired rockets. They were forgotten without any intention to use them, because they were expired since 10 years ago."

He added that "this type of rockets were declared in 1996 and again in the new declaration."

ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTION I POSTED TWICE NOW? OR ARE YOU GOING TO CONVENIENTLY IGNORE THAT< JUST LIKE YOU IGNORED THE ABOVE PASSAGE FROM YOUR PROOF of WMD CLAIMS

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Pretty much what was said is that they have not found the stockpiles of wmd...keyword "stockpiles".....

There is a difference between not finding "stockpiles of wmd" and not finding any evidence to point to Saddam having a wmd program...

Since the "stockpiles" were not found, everyone, including the U.N. is using this to claim "there were no wmd programs there".... but the evidence points to the contrary... Saddam himself had recordings of his conversations with Iraqi scientists telling thm to hide the wmd programs....the Russians alongside some other countries provided evidence to the U.S. of Saddam's plans... yet people want to claim "oh that's nothing"...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
.............
far out man, you've got about 2yrs of debating on this site to catch up on if this is all youve got about saddams wmd programme.
.............

You are probably new around here, because i have been around here for over two years and some other members and myself have been posting this information for over two years....

Oh and btw...the U.N. weapon inspectors said those are "empty chemical warheads".... I guess the U.N. weapons inspectors don't know the difference between regular munition and "chemical warheads"...

dude your not getting the point.
The US said they had stockpiles.
large stockpiles poised to strike the US.
they said they had evidence.

there were no stockpiles.
the most that was found was 12 empty 1980's mortar shells..

Obviously your a US citizen..
because you, like hte US Governemnt claim that as evidence worthy to invade a country

your a joke, along with your president.
I hope all the dead, injured, homeless orphans of Iraq are glda you freed them from their horrible, 12cannister holding leader.

its people like you that should be on the front line, you obviously support this ILLEGIAL WAR!

sigh,
Immaturity stinks to high hellat times on this board.

your still yet to answer my question which i have asked you to for 4 posts now.

your a waste of time.

think what you want to think, but time has so far proven you wrong.

Pathetic indeed.... Who is Hossam Amin?....

Hossam Mohammed Amin was an Iraqi general under Saddam Hussein's government. He said in 2002 that Iraq would submit a list of chemical, biological and nuclear programs to UNMOVIC, but that the report would not disclose any banned weapons, "because, really, we have no weapons of mass destruction."

en.wikipedia.org...

You are quoting from one of Saddam's generals.....

Amin, among others, were lying because "banned missiles and materials" were found...

BTW....anyone remembers Baghdag Bob?.... "We are beating the Americans, there are no American troops in Baghdag"....

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Muaddib]

I already served in the U.S. military, and btw I was born in Cuba, raised in spain until I was 17 years old and came to the states...so i have seen and lived under a Communist country, a socialist/democratic country and a representative Republic. As for immaturity around here, yes you are right, even when it comes from Saddam's mouth, or the Russians, or the Spanish authorities or any others there are people who want to claim it was an "illegal war"...

BTW, those evil U.S. military personnel are for example clearing out mines in Afghanistan which were left by the friendly Soviet forces from the 80s in 27 of the 29 provinces of Afghanistan, and which still kill and maime civilians in that country.... and those evil U.S. personnel have allowed companies in Iraq to build sewers in Iraqi cities which didn't have sewers before, and provide clean water to millions of iraqis which didn't have clean water under Saddam's reign, but you don't hear things like that from the news, you just hear when insurgents kill Iraqi civilians and then someone blames it on the U.S., or if some troops go beserk and kill civilians, but you won't hear either of coalition forces including from the U.S. who have died defending an Iraqi child or Iraqi people....

Yeah, keep talking about "immaturity"....and btw, I am not going to play any games of "what if", if you do then you need to anwser what if all the information about SAddam's regime planning terrorist attacks in the U.S. given from the Russians, the Spaniards and other countries was real, and Saddam's regime was not only funding terrorists against the U.S., but was activelly planning on making terrorist attacks in the U.S. as they say Saddam's regime was doing, and as the recordings from Saddam say.... You want to anwser that?...

"What if" nothing would have been done and what the Russians, the Spaniard authorities and others said Saddam was doing came true and there were terrorist attacks in U.S. soil because nothing was done?....

You want to play the "what if" game?...

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Muaddib]

I can see it now.... 30 years from now Muaddib will be the crazy old man walking around on street corners with a sign reading "The War was Justified" or They Lied Saddam did Have WMD" or some such and people will cross the street to avoid him. The last true believer.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Time Magazine reported that secret documents have been uncovered that show The Bush Administration has been covertly attempting to influence the outcome of the upcoming Syrian presidential election.

Please Stay on Topic

Again, I am asking members to stay on topic.

I am also reminding members to stay away from personal attacks as this detracts from the topic and creates unnecessary drama. Please discuss the topic and NOT each other :shk: And, there are plenty of topics on Iraq and WMD, so let's keep this one about SYRIA.

Further personal attacks will receive warnings.

Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW, those evil U.S. military personnel are for example clearing out mines in Afghanistan which were left by the friendly Soviet forces from the 80s in 27 of the 29 provinces of Afghanistan, and which still kill and maime civilians in that country.... and those evil U.S. personnel have allowed companies in Iraq to build sewers in Iraqi cities which didn't have sewers before, and provide clean water to millions of iraqis which didn't have clean water under Saddam's reign, but you don't hear things like that from the news, you just hear when insurgents kill Iraqi civilians and then someone blames it on the U.S., or if some troops go beserk and kill civilians, but you won't hear either of coalition forces including from the U.S. who have died defending an Iraqi child or Iraqi people....

When in the first place you have a war that is wrong, of course it would make sense that people are not going to see the good things about it because WE WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. So even if something good is being done it still will not make up for all the wrong that has been done. IF in fact we were there for freedoms sake then we would have had the majority of the Iraqi people inviting us there and actually helping us, not people coming from all over the world just to help the Iraqis repel us or have people that we train to help us turn traitor and blow up our troops. The Iraqis themselves would be shouting at the tops of their lungs how great things are for them, we would not need to PAY media consultants to shout it for us. The sooner you and others realize what we are doing is wrong over there , the sooner we can bring our boys/girls home where they belong.

Sorry this went slightly off topic but since it was brought up I felt is should be said. I still has to do with meddling in other countries politics and affairs.
We need to stay out of other peoples affairs unless it concerns or threatens us directly.

"People from all over the world going to Iraq to help the Iraqis"?.... You have got to be kidding....

The fact is that "your" freedom fighters are not the "Iraqis freedom fighters"... Iraqi people have taken up arms and have attacked your so called "freedom fighters", yet some people still have the audacity to claim "they are fighting for the Iraqis"....

If you are going to make a claim, then make it right....those "terrorist/insurgents" going to Iraq from all over are "your" freedom fighters....they are not the Iraqis... More Iraqis have been killed by the ones called by some around here as "freedom fighters" than coalition forces have been killed by the insurgents/terrorists....

Over 1,000 Iraqis died trampling each other trying to get away when word spread out that one of the so called "freedom fighters" was among them with a bomb strapped to his chest..... They died trying to get away from the so called "freedom fighter"....

When Iraqis went to vote by the millions, something they were never able to do before, the so called "freedom fighters" attacked Iraqi civilians killing and wounding hundreds of them trying to stop the Iraqi people from voting...yet some want to claim "the insurgents/terrorists are fighting for the Iraqis"....

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Muaddib]

Like many of the secular Arab states, they have a tolerance for religion policy that keeps the hard liners at bay. This was true in Iraq under Saddam and it is true in Syria under the Assiaids, and it is true in Jordan. Many Iraqi Christians have sought refuge in Syria and like the Assiaids or not, if you think you can remove them and NOT have the same thing that happened in Iraq occur, you obviously have not been paying attention.