if the whole conspiracy were really true......

the world would pretty much already be enslaved by the Evil U.S. or illuminati or what have you.

the theory that theres a secret shadow society planning and scheming for ways to take over the world by controlling people and governments to start a new world order and the 911 conspiracy theory are two sides of the same coin.

If it were true, the NWO would already have happened. We all know according to the theory that these illuminati have been supposedly plotting to take over the world for centuries. How god damn long does it take for a super secret super powerful society to take over the world? not long at all, if it is really as secret and smart about controlling people and governments as the CTers make them out to be.

To actually plan and coordinate and execute the 911 conspiracy as the way the CTers say it happened would require some real #ing genius. It would also require some really good ability to controll governments and people.

Now, if such a genius secret society existed and had the controlling powers and the smarts to pull it off, democratizing Iraq and removing the insurgency going on would be a piece of cake. Taking Iraq and afghanistan were really 2 goals out of the conspiracy theory. If a secret evil illuminati can control the US government, and succeed in pulling of a conspiracy with no complications (beleive me, that would be hard to do, there were so many things that could have gone wrong if the conspiracy were true)then how hard would it be to remove the insurgency? it wouldnt, it would be so much easier. Im sure with that kind of genius and power, it wouldnt be hard to turn the insurgency leaders onto the dark side and let the US complete their goal of taking Iraq which is all supposedly part of the NWO.

It just doesnt add up at all. the idea of an NWO is a bunch of crap. theres no society, and if there was, theres no way they could be as smart as that or as lucky as that. the way the CTers lay it out, they make the illuminati out to be too perfect in what they do. Its not consistent with the blunders that are resulting. Iraq is shot to hell and all this "controlling the governments behind the scenes" # just requires god like skill, god like intellect, ability to predict the future all kinds of powers that would be required to beat the typical murphy's law things that would just get in the way. if such a society did have those powers, wed already be enslaved already and the NWO would have been past history.



[edit on 20-12-2006 by bob2000]

Originally posted by bob2000
Now, if such a genius secret society existed and had the controlling powers and the smarts to pull it off, democratizing Iraq and removing the insurgency going on would be a piece of cake.

Bringing democracy to Iraq was never the goal. By encouraging the insurgency to start a civil war they have successfully destabalized the region. Chaos in Iraq was the real goal.

The US now has control over the Iraqi oil fields and we can sell the untapped oil reserves to the higest bidder. The Saudi's look like the most likely contender, but will likely complete the purchase not out of greed, but rather out of fear that regional Chaos will spread.

The question is how much is it worth.

Is the Iraqi oil reserve worth nine trillion dollars, which is how much our oil backed US dollar is in debt to the federal reserve?

[edit on 20-12-2006 by In nothing we trust]

bob2000 you seem to have taken it upon yourself to imagine a motive that to you seems improbable and thus you self-debunk based upon this assumption or at least you want to reassure your own opinion of the subject by finding your most unlikely motive.

"And those that were dancing were thought to be quite mad by those who could not hear the music." author unknown. (By me anyway)

wupy

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Bringing democracy to Iraq was never the goal. By encouraging the insurgency to start a civil war they have successfully destabalized the region. Chaos in Iraq was the real goal.

The US now has control over the Iraqi oil fields and we can sell the untapped oil reserves to the higest bidder. The Saudi's look like the most likely contender, but will likely complete the purchase not out of greed, but rather out of fear that regional Chaos will spread.

The question is how much is it worth.

Is the Iraqi oil reserve worth nine trillion dollars, which is how much our oil backed US dollar is in debt to the federal reserve?

[edit on 20-12-2006 by In nothing we trust]

our goal was to make chaos in Iraq........

that makes no sense! THats thing about the stupid conspiracy. everything that happened no matter what has happened was "all part of the plan". again, all founded on the assumption that the great evil secret society never ever ever ever ever fails in achieving its goals of taking over the world. THats the pathetic part of the conspiracy, it assumes that the everything we see "was all part of the plan" as if the people behind it are supermen, and never fail and always achieve their covert operations etc and pulling big stunts off. Id beleive some guys hidding in caves could pull 911 off long before some secret society that magically has stayed secret for years could pull off such an operation to frame al qaida on septermber llth. Such an operation would require superhuman powers and just plain awesome luck to pull off they wayit did. Failure is very common in covert operations. Navy seals, SPecOps, CIA covert ops dont always succeed, oh, but yet the magical illuminatis top secret operations always succeed!. Its like murphy's law excludes the illuminati and conspiracies.

So I guess this board, ATS was also part of the big plan right? hey, why havent they removed all conspiracy crap which would be counter productive? why not just delete all these websites. oohhh, right, its all part of the plan, the evil illuminati wants there to be CTers, why?

......BECUASE THERE REAL GOAL IS TO CREATE CHAOS ON THE NET! Not persuade people that there really is a conspiracy. so according to your logic, the evil society must want their to be CTers? but that doesnt make sense, the CTers are the illuminati's enemy, they want to expose the Illumintati for what htey really are.

see how stupid that sounds?

If there really was a conspiracy going on right now, an evil secret society, I guarantee you would not have the freedom to even rebut this thread. YOud already been improsoned already for som bull# charge meant to silence you. According to your very own conspiracy, the evil society responsible for 911 and war in the middle east wants you silent. But before you say, "oh, but they dont care becuase they know no one will beleive us CTers", well if its true that that is how they think, then whats all this talk about the NWO, mass wiretapping on innocent civilians, patriot act, all designed to figure out who is "aware" and improson them? you cant have it both ways, either they see you CTers as harmless, and could care less about invading everyones privacy just to catch you guys, or they do see you as a threat, n\and therefore youd already be imprisoned by now.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by bob2000]

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 22/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Frith
bob2000 you seem to have taken it upon yourself to imagine a motive that to you seems improbable and thus you self-debunk based upon this assumption or at least you want to reassure your own opinion of the subject by finding your most unlikely motive.

oh, is that some psycho-analysis crap thats supposed to make me look wrong? face it, conspiracies are always perfect. everything that has happened is meant ot happen. thats the common theme in them.

But we all know that when you wake up from the dream world, nothing is perfect. nothing works out how you plan it. This is why businesses sometimes fall and go bankrupt, great armies can sometimes lose a battle, you plans for a big event dont always go as expected, etc. the world is unpredictable, this unpredictability puts a big wrench in you CTers fantasies, becuase those stories you dream up are always of perfectly achieved operations. conspiracies are nothing but stories of how a group of people planned some giant covert operation to take over the world which always eclude themself from failure.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by bob2000]

Originally posted by bob2000
THats thing about the stupid conspiracy. everything that happened no matter what has happened was "all part of the plan". again, all founded on the assumption that the great evil secret society never ever ever ever ever fails in achieving its goals of taking over the world.

... why havent they removed all conspiracy crap which would be counter productive? why not just delete all these websites. oohhh, right, its all part of the plan, the evil illuminati wants there to be CTers, why?

If there really was a conspiracy going on right now, an evil secret society, I guarantee you would not have the freedom to even rebut this thread. YOud already been improsoned already for som bull# charge meant to silence you.

I once had similar thoughts of, 'why would they let people expose the truth?' The only logical answer can be, 'the exposure of the truth plays right into thier hands.' Chaos is freedom for the devil, the one true god on this earth. The mafia, the masons and the church all worship the devil.

Everything is known, silence serves no purpose.

Revelation 22:10
Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

bibleresources.bible.com...

The see-eye-a (CIA) is the underground intelligence organization of satan.

Who's eye is in the pyramid on the $1.00 bill
www.abovetopsecret.com...

BTW, the eye on the pyramid belongs to discordia the goddess of chaos, discord and strife. She is the one, in greek mythology, who ate the fruit of the tree of good and evil.

The reason that the kennedy assination and 9/11 were never properly investigated is because those on the investigation committees knew the truth and they were terrified of it.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by bob2000
oh, is that some psycho-analysis crap thats supposed to make me look wrong? face it, conspiracies are always perfect. everything that has happened is meant ot happen. thats the common theme in them.

Conspiracies can go wrong. Look up the 1972 Watergate break-in and subsequent capture for example.

The 9/11 conspiracy to me goes along the lines of just how destructive capitalism is.

Capitalism as an economic model requres infinite growth to be sustainable. In the 20th century war was at an all time high and the industries involved in it grew beyond their wildest dreams.

Then the money rug fell out from under them with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The only way to continue to grow the military industry (which has to grow to survive) is to have wars. Lots of wars. And if no wars are ongoing, they have to be manufactured.

Ok.... Bush... Clinton... Warren Commision....NIST... FEMA... 911 Commision....The United States Government... The Masons... The illuminati .....and now... to add to this ever growing list of this MASSIVE coverup.....
...one more name was just added....
.....
....


....


... GOD ! God is in on it!!! It says so in the Book of Revelations!!!!

People just have too much time on thier hands... Damn people...go do some last minute Christmas shopping!!!!




[edit on 22-12-2006 by CameronFox]

Originally posted by CameronFox
...one more name was just added....
.....
... GOD ! God is in on it!!! It says so in the Book of Revelations!!!!

... go do some last minute Christmas shopping!!!!

God knows all. He know's whose been naughty and who's been nice. The god of the bible is the devil.

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

bibleresources.bible.com...

[edit on 22-12-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Problem is you're basing what you think a controlled society looks like on what you have seen in movies or read in books.

The control is already here, but instead of guns and intern camps we've got TV, controlled media, and a population put to sleep through fear of losing what they have.

You see those in control learned well from past 'mistakes' and now they control through more subtle methods.

Why isn't the NWO in full control? Well I'd say it is and has been for a long time, we just don't notice because they're patient and the process is a slow one, and most ppl are so overwhelmed with life they don't have time to notice.

We're like the frog in the pot of boiling water...

(And btw the NWO isn't a 'thing' it's a concept that has been slowly put into place over centuries of work by the elites)

Take a look around you, notice how 'global' the world is now? Do you think ppl will really notice a world controlled by one government? The world right now is controlled to a big extent by one gov, the US gov.

The ruling elites will always try to improve things for themselves, the more they can control us, and the worlds means to production, the more they benefit. We are their biggest threat, and they will do all they can to control us. The more freedoms we seem to gain, they more control they implement. It will never end, greed and power knows no end.

If you can't see this then you're not paying attention to our history.

Originally posted by ANOK
We are their biggest threat, and they will do all they can to control us.

We are nothing but a nuicence to these people who run the new world order. A fly in the ointment. They know that time is on thier side. All they need is enough time and we will forget our past and our freedom and they will be able to steamroll us when we least expect it.

They are attempting to turn America into a service economy. What that really means is worldwide labor is plentiful. We are just labor to be used and abused, so that they can own everything and control everything and everyone. They want you to compete with a peasant in China, with bad teeth who has never had electricity or indoor plumbing before, for a days wages.


[edit on 22-12-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by ANOK
Problem is you're basing what you think a controlled society looks like on what you have seen in movies or read in books.

Tell me (with facts) how the United States is under a controlled soceity.
I do understand economically how very few companies DO control our goverment....Id like some other instances.

The control is already here, but instead of guns and intern camps we've got TV, controlled media, and a population put to sleep through fear of losing what they have.

I love TV.... I watch it for entertainment purposes. Not very often do I watch the news on TV.

You see those in control learned well from past 'mistakes' and now they control through more subtle methods.

Please explain your "subtle methods"

Why isn't the NWO in full control? Well I'd say it is and has been for a long time, we just don't notice because they're patient and the process is a slow one, and most ppl are so overwhelmed with life they don't have time to notice.

If its been for a long time...why is it called the "NEW" World order? Who are "they'?The United States?

We're like the frog in the pot of boiling water...

Um.... whats that mean? Dead? Hot? Burnt?

(And btw the NWO isn't a 'thing' it's a concept that has been slowly put into place over centuries of work by the elites)

Take a look around you, notice how 'global' the world is now? Do you think ppl will really notice a world controlled by one government? The world right now is controlled to a big extent by one gov, the US gov.

The ruling elites will always try to improve things for themselves, the more they can control us, and the worlds means to production, the more they benefit. We are their biggest threat, and they will do all they can to control us. The more freedoms we seem to gain, they more control they implement. It will never end, greed and power knows no end.

If you can't see this then you're not paying attention to our history.

Please explain how we are in control? Yes...its true we are the only true military superpower....But other countries are not yielding to our strenght... Iran is thumbing their noses at as ..as well as North Korea.

"Living is easy..with eyes closed"

John Lennon.

there is no chaos on Iraq....???? mmm guess the over 2000 dead soldiers do not agree with that nad the over 50 K dead iraqui will also....

It does not make sense, how can an Evil US empire be responsible for taking over another even more evil empire that the Muslim nations create?
Are the Russians and the Chinese under an Evil empire too?
Is it Evil vs an Evil empire? Who is really evil?
There is something else going on, wake up people, its either the US and the West is being taken over from the inside from God knows what or the empires are shifting and this whole thing is an illusion. The chaos is to get everyone against each other, the fog is so dense we are shooting at our own people.

Originally posted by CameronFox
Tell me (with facts) how the United States is under a controlled soceity.
I do understand economically how very few companies DO control our goverment....Id like some other instances.

You only have to read one of your posts on 9-11 to see how some of our society is controlled...
It's not something that can be explained in a few sentences, it's such a complex system, with so many little pieces, that nobody notices the whole.
It all starts with school, and the 'bow to authority mentality' forced on our kids and taken into adulthood.
It's swearing elegance to a flag.
It's slow deliberate life-long conditioning thanx to mass media and the re-writing of our history.
It's how anything that puts government in a negative light is squashed very efficiently by the brainwashed media.
It's how the history of working class resistance has been written out of our history books. Do you know anything about the Spanish Revolution of 1936?
It's how any alternative to the madness we now call society is not even considered, and when it is the mass media does it's upmost to portray it in a negative light.
It's the way our emotions are played with constantly by
the choice of what is considered 'news' and stuff that really effects our future is on the back page or not at all.
It's how all the means of production are in the hands of the few, so we have to work all hours to get by, when in reality all our labour is for nothing but lining other peoples pockets. Stolen labour!

I love TV.... I watch it for entertainment purposes. Not very often do I watch the news on TV.

So? You're not the mass population are you? What do you think makes people spend money on clothes they don't need just because the ones they have are not fashionable anymore? The mass media drives this crazy adiction to mass consumerism, we shop while 'they' conquer and murder their own citizens to gain more power and control. Why don't we put the money we spend on the war in Iraq on developing safe clean free energy?
Do you ever ask yourself these questions? Or is everything hunky dory in your world?

Please explain your "subtle methods"

Conditioning instead of guns in your face. The very careful way information about the world around is filtered through, until it comes out exactly the way they want us to see things. They don't have to lie every time, just be very selective on what is released.

If its been for a long time...why is it called the "NEW" World order? Who are "they'?The United States?

LOL so I guess New York was just built yesterday to huh?...
The 'they' are the bank owners and coorporations. Money talks and the gov works for the highest bidder.

Um.... whats that mean? Dead? Hot? Burnt?

I think it's obvious don't you? As I've said they learned well, brute force doesn't always work, subtle conditioning is a much cleaner and in the long run more efective method of control. That's why people don't notice, but if you do some research it's easy to see what's happening. It's inevitable unless we stop it.

Please explain how we are in control? Yes...its true we are the only true military superpower....But other countries are not yielding to our strength... Iran is thumbing their noses at as ..as well as North Korea.

That was just an example. Look at the financial world, the dollar rules, or at least it did. The US dominate financially, that my friend is control and what it's all about. I was just trying to say world control is more centralized than we realize, and if we had a one world gov we wouldn't neseccarily notice.

But you don't have to believe what I'm saying go look for yourself, read some history from some more alternative sources. The only thing stopping you seeing the truth is your own fear that you might actually be living a lie. A lot more goes on than what we are told.

We have all been conned, and who is it that suffers from the guns and bombs the gov so easily puts to use? It's not them is it?

Edit: BTW did you find that 9-11 vid about the south tower? Or are you going to admit there is no answer, other than there must have been some other force acting on that building?

[edit on 22/12/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by CameronFox
Tell me (with facts) how the United States is under a controlled soceity.
I do understand economically how very few companies DO control our goverment....Id like some other instances.

AIPAC

video.google.com...

video.google.com...

"they are controlling us and conditioning us through the media"........

Well, that would be right if it were true that they knew exactly how to control us through the media and that they were certain that it would work.

But when you wake up from fantasy land, you realize controlling the world, through the media alone without forcing guns in people's faces is incredibly difficult to do. You see, Society is a very complex thing. It is VERY VERY unpredictable. You could apply some kind of stimulus to society and there will be lots of responses that you totally didnt even anticipate. Lots of unpredictability. in order to control something, things cant be unpredictable to you.

A good analagy is the economy, its like trying to control that. Businesses make decisions that they expect will have a certain result that is beneficial to them. THeyll make those decisions, and those predicted results may happen, but then results from those results start to happen that are actually harmful and unexpected..oops

Controlling the world through media is the same way. THey could try some stuff meant to eliminate enemies they have today (pass some BS laws or somtheing), and little do they know, further down the road, some movement or faction that may be a real threat to them may actually develop from the consequences of the consequences of that law passed. THe world is unpredictable. "Blowback" happens. even the CIA knows about that kind of thing.

I beleive a building could collapse perfectly into its own footprint with zero fire or structural damage all by chance long before anyone will actually be able to control the world through using media and brainwasing tricks. ITs just not going to happen, the world is too complicated, people and society are too complicated and unpredictable to get the kind of control on them that the CTers are saying is actually happening. For a government to actually control people like the CTers are saying, theyre either going to need to use force (think Dictator Saddam Hussein) or use some magical mind controlling technology that currently only exists in science fiction movies. Media mind tricks, lol, not a chance in hell.

Ironically, the CTers say science is on their side, but if they actually sit down and scientifically think about how the dynamics of society works, and the media's influence works, they would very quickly learn that controlled influence on society is crap. Media influencig society? no doubt. But getting it to have the influence you actually desire to the point where you are controlling the world? hell no. the relationship between the media and people are circular and collective. THe media influences us, and we influence the media, its a complex system. Controlling people using media is science fiction.

try using force like Hussein, that would work...but I dont see it happening in the US. oops, there is no control!

^You're kinda missing the point of how society is actually controlled through the media. Not by the media, but it is used by government, by corporations, by big business, to paint a picture of how they want to people to act. And it does work, the proof is all around you, but I guess if you are caught up in the life they want us to have then you wouldn't see it, however much it's pointed out to you.

You maybe under the impression that a life of 9-5 to only throw your labour away on the accumilation of useless consumer goods, so we are financially enslaved no matter what your pay level, and our greatest past time is watching TV, which ironically feeds this illusion of what life should be, is normal?

The system sucks the imagination out of society because it dictates through the media what society should be like. Where have the great political thinkers gone, where have the great composers gone? Society is being slowly turned into an unthinking, greedy, over consuming, single minded, generic uncultured, beast of a population who think only with their emotions, bolstered and perpetuated by the use of MEDIA, in all it's forms, by those who wish to profit from us. Modern technology and ease of communication is a very two edged sword. Right now it's being used by those who's only objective is to control the population, so as to better serve their privileged lifestyles.

Does it work on everybody? Of course not, otherwise I wouldn't be commenting on it. All it needs is the majority to fall into the predictable stereotypes that are set up through the media. It's makes business easier, and it make controlling popular thought easier.

Originally posted by ANOK
^You're kinda missing the point of how society is actually controlled through the media. Not by the media, but it is used by government, by corporations, by big business, to paint a picture of how they want to people to act. And it does work, the proof is all around you, but I guess if you are caught up in the life they want us to have then you wouldn't see it, however much it's pointed out to you.

No, youre missing the point. The media being used to influence people's minds has limited use. It work well on selling something, ie. commercials, but 1) this only will work on those predisposed to buying such a thing. 2)It only works during a window of opportunity, after a while, people may no longer desire to buy such a product, something better may come out. Im just talking simple advertising. Which doesnt always work in bringing in buyers by the boatloads. But you want to get into going beyond advertising into the realm or drainwashing and controlling people to act the way the Government/corporations want them? Youll run into some real problems there.

For one, you dont understand that the influence the media exerts on us is mutual. We influence the media just like the media influences us. ITs a two way street. THis puts a big hole in the CTers big media mind # theory they praise. How do we influence the media? lots of ways. Well, the media can only make TV shows or channels that we will be interested in watching, so our tastes in what we like put a control on what they can show us. they cant show us anything, now to brainwash people, youll have to show certain things, since we wont watch it if its not interesting, this limits what brainwashing material they can show us, deluding its effect. Also, the same people who watch TV etc. may end up working in the media industry; his own ideas and opinions of what makes good TV etc will be thrown into the mix and will definitely create a conflict with any project or plan to control people through the media. you see what makes good TV =/= what will brainwash people to follow their government. In fact, alot of the conspiracy sh1t makes good TV and movies, totally not what I would expect to be good brainwashing material.

Also, controlling society is very very complicated. ITs very difficult to control a society through media outlets alone. Any areas where it would succeed will only apply in the short term. People will only do what is desired in the short term. Becuase society is so complex, it makes any long term predictions pretty much impossible. you cant predict long term effects of your media material, then how can you control society? controlling society is a long term thing that must be built up over time, any organised attempt to make society chang in a planned and desired way would require the ability to see long term effects...not possible

The system sucks the imagination out of society because it dictates through the media what society should be like. Where have the great political thinkers gone, where have the great composers gone? Society is being slowly turned into an unthinking, greedy, over consuming, single minded, generic uncultured, beast of a population who think only with their emotions, bolstered and perpetuated by the use of MEDIA, in all it's forms, by those who wish to profit from us. Modern technology and ease of communication is a very two edged sword. Right now it's being used by those who's only objective is to control the population, so as to better serve their privileged lifestyles.

Theres still plenty of great thinkers out there, go to a university campus like MIT. You making big generalisations here, no wonder you buy into this "media control" theory. No, media is not used for control, its used mostly for entertainment. THe people want it, the people who provide it want it. again, the evidence isnt looking very good for the theory that its for control purposes.