China Needs Us To Buy Their Cheap Goods... Not! (Op/Ed)

Originally posted by donwhite
The undocumented worker does TWO things TO Americans.
1) It keeps down wages and
2) it stymies unions. Workers who are illegal are afraid to insist on their legal rights. The US ICE - Immigration and Customs Enforcement - is ready to enforce the employers exploitation of workers.

You are very much right here donwhite, that is why our borders stay open and our government while doing much talks do not stop the illegal immigration from entering our nation, killing again what is left after the outsourcing what used to be the middle class in America.

It seems to me that is being done in purpose.

People said that Americans are lazy and that they do not want to do the jobs that illegals do.

But in our nation every year US American students are graduating by the hundreds of thousands many in technology jobs.

But where are the jobs for this new young men and women entering the job market?

This skilled young people with degrees are working in menial jobs because our skill jobs are been outsourced alsol.

Yes job is good said our government but not for the professionals.

The latest report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the real wages and salaries of US civilian workers are below those of 5 years ago.

Corporate America has made sure that the last reminding good jobs are now in the hand of foreign workers brought up on workers visa because they can pay them less money than they will pay to a young American university graduate.

This is what is going on in American right now.

Over the last year (from June 2006 through June 2007) the US economy created 1.6 million net private sector jobs. As Charles McMillion of MBG Information Services reports each month, essentially all of the new jobs are in low-paid domestic services that do not require a college education.

The littler lie that government is using to make our job grow looks good.

www.economyincrisis.org...

Why good jobs for graduates are missing

Originally posted by pavil
We are limited in our efforts to promote reform in China, you wouldn't want us interfering the in the internal politics of another country would you?

China do not want reform they are doing just fine the way they are.

US has the power to stop with economic sanctions and strict tariffs, the predatory practices that china is using against US with their currency.

This a war.

But have you ever think why it has not happen?

Because our corporate America is up to their necks in china, any sanctions will affect their profits margin and that can never be allow.

China has a good number of lobbyists working in behave of their interest within corporate America.

They have the money and influence to do that, after all they all sleep in the same bed together, politicians, corporate America and china.


[edit on 8-8-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Prepare ourselves for what exactly? A recession?

This is not an atsn article, this is your own one sided view. Why don't you mention the Western investment in China? And yes...US and EU business does matter to China. If you think China can just go on growing at 10% annually with the West "fallen" as some people put it. Then you are mistaken.

If the US falls, it will be a domino affect. It wouldn't have been so bad in the 1700's if that happened, but in the 21st century it is a bad thing. Because we are a global economy. If one big block falls, we all are affected.

Mr. Retinoid, you sir are precisely correct! Not to mention china faces several hurdles in order to 'surpass' the US. Incredibly poor environmental conditions from the china 'boom', a massively poor population, only certain parts of china feel the china 'boom' which has brought on speculation that china will split up into several different countrys in the not so distant future, Not to mention that china constantly over states its actual economic growth due to political corruption in the 32 provinces. It goes on and on. I dont care to get into the specifics right now at this point. Though if this debate continues on blind biased one sided views, perhaps we can have a go around.

China needs the US (its biggest customer). And retinoid is quite right when he talks about the current state of the world economy today. Its an interdependent world economy, What happens from a theorecticle point of view, if the US were to just up and collapse? Well China would lose its biggest customer, the EU would lose its largest trading partner....and as retinoid put it so eloquently, the domino effect fast ensues...

It is my belief that china will become a democracy by 2015, or china will suffer from economic growth not much faster then that of the US. It is said that china will be considered to be 'developed' by then. I believe china will be where america was in the 1950's-1960's by that time..

[edit on 8-8-2007 by West Coast]

posted by Marg6043: You are very much right here donwhite, that is why our borders stay open and our government while doing much talks do not stop the illegal immigration from entering our nation, killing again what is left after the outsourcing what used to be the middle class in America. It seems to me that is being done in purpose.

Yes, Marg, it’s done on purpose. It is Neo Con Theory that only a FEW are fit to rule. That they - Neo Cons - have a 20-30 years window of opportunity starting around 1989-1991 with the fall of the old USSR. Allied with people of similar ideology around the world, including Chinese, they are on their way to making it where

That is an interesting theory Mr. Donwhite. Much of the worlds wealth is controlled by a very few. Interesting idea you have there sir. One that just might be closer to actual fact rather than fiction.

As far as outsourcing jobs go. I am by no means trying to stand up for big business, but, from a business stand point, "if you cant beat 'em might as well join 'em". If US companys did not outrsource jobs overseas the world economy wouldnt be doing nearly as well as it is now, also US company's would go out of business due to the cheaper, yet lesser quality goods china ,india, etc. are able to produce. Another thing that should be of note worthiness, robots are also becoming more apparent in the modern, industrialized world today. They also have to be factored into lost jobs for americans.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by West Coast]

posted by West Coast
That is an interesting theory Mr. Donwhite. Much of the worlds wealth is controlled by a very few. Interesting idea you have there sir. One that just might be closer to actual fact rather than fiction.

Thanks for the qualified approval of my Grand Conspiracy theory. It’s the Illuminatis, the CFRs and the World Bank, IMF and so on all wrapped into one. The beauty - or horror - of this Take-Over of the Word Plan is that there is no GODFATHER needed. It runs itself! A serendipitous convergence of interests. Shared goals. It is a singularly human trait amongst primates that we always want more.

[edit on 8/9/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
The insurgents are the ones who are fighting for the Iraqi people to be free of foreigners.

So the Shia Militias that are backed by Iran just want Iraq to be free of outside influence?

So A.Q. in Iraq (the majority of who are foreigners), want Iraq to be free of outside influence?

So the Sunni's, those who are still fighting the Central Government and are funded by Sunni interests in the Arab world (Saudi Arabia) want Iraq to be free of outside influence?

You are deluding yourself if you think that Iraq would/will be free of outside influence if the U.S. and coalition forces leave. We will just see a religious Civil War that has been brewing long before 2003.

Sorry for going off topic.





[edit on 9-8-2007 by pavil]

posted by pavil

posted by donwhite
The insurgents are the ones who are fighting for the Iraqi people to be free of foreigners.

So the Shia Militias that are backed by Iran just want Iraq to be free of outside influence? So A. Q. in Iraq [al Zarqawi’s old group re-named “al Qaeda in Iraq” to get free publicity in the US] (the majority of who are foreigners) [so say Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush43], want Iraq to be free of outside influence?

I know you don’t believe me, Mr P. But Americans are throughly blinded to our own history. How many times have we invaded Haiti? More than 6. We occupied Haiti from 1918 to 1933. Why cant’ we spread democracy there? How many times have we invaded Central American countries? More than 3 dozen! Why are most of those countries run by pro-American strong men? Nicaragua and Daniel Ortega excepted. What did we do in Chile when we did not like the elected president? Killed Salvador Allende.

Why are we threatening Venezuela but content to let Columbia go on “business as usual?” How did we acquire Hawaii? How did we acquire Puerto Rico, Cuba and the Philippines? Why are Iranians of all political stripes angry at Eisenhower and the United States? How long did it take for the South Koreans to achieve a real democracy? The Vietnamese to be free of foreigners? Who had the Congo’s Patrice Lumba killed? What country has orchestrated the government of Pakistan since 1947? And etc.

There are more questions that need to be answered before a person can get a handle on US Foreign Policy, regardless of who is in office. Without knowing how the US has operated in the past, it is easy to fall victim to the wonderful propaganda put out by our own White House and the embedded journalists in Iraq. CSPAN broadcast a report by a very impressive man today, Anthony Cordesman. It is offered at www.csis.org.

I’m not going to argue ‘he said she said.’ If you know the history, then you know where I'm coming from, if you don't, then you do not know where I'm coming from. I will ask one more questoin: who and why was one of my old heroes Ernesto “Che” Guevara killed in the mountains of Bolivia?

Like al Zarqawi was killed in Iraq, I believe he was shot dead by CIA operatives AFTER he was captured. Sorry for going off topic.

[edit on 8/9/2007 by donwhite]

posted by pavil
So the Sunni's, those who are still fighting the Central Government and are funded by Sunni interests in the Arab world (Saudi Arabia) want Iraq to be free of outside influence? You are deluding yourself if you think that Iraq would/will be free of outside influence if the U.S. and coalition forces leave. We will just see a religious Civil War that has been brewing long before 2003. Sorry for going off topic.

I do not believe the situation in Iraq is as simple as Sunni vs. Shia vs. Kurds. First, jihad is to Islamists as camp meetings and tent revivals were to 19th and 20th century Christianity in the US. The most famous and longest lasting being the one started in 1874 at the Chautauqua Sunday School Assembly near Jamestown, NY and still alive and well. Aside: Lewis Miller, a devout Methodist, had become rich after inventing the first combine harvester reaper and co-founded what became the Chautauqua movement that spread around the US. End. In almost all Arab Muslim countries, the notion of separation of church and state is unknown. They therefore tend to look different to us in the West where the idea is not all that new either, dating from 1517. Or 1648. Or 1787, depending on what formula you use to take the measures.

Outside influence does not mean to us what it means to Arabs. After all it was us - the West - who drew the boundary lines in 1922 that we are fighting over today. An Arab is an Arab wheter born in Jordan, Syria, Arabia or anywhere. And old memories run long in that part of the world. I am not deluded, but I do know I am running uphill. Sorry for going off topic.

[edit on 8/9/2007 by donwhite]

posted by West Coast
As far as outsourcing jobs go. I am by no means trying to stand up for big business, but, from a business stand point, "if you cant beat 'em might as well join 'em". If US companies did not outsource jobs overseas the world economy wouldn’t be doing nearly as well as it is now, also US company's would go out of business due to the cheaper, yet lesser quality goods china ,India, etc. are able to produce. Another thing that should be of note worthiness, robots are also becoming more apparent in the modern, industrialized world today. They also have to be factored into lost jobs for Americans.

Our philosophy favors the mobility of capital and ignores the permanence or immobility of labor. When the rich guy sells his factory in South Carolina and goes into partnership with the People’s Liberation Army of China, he leaves behind unemployed workers and bills those people cannot pay. In fact, there are distinct tax advantages to the R&Fs to do that business maneuver. Which brings us back to CFR which no one here wants to hear, but which I try to tell all, everything we don’t like is related to CFR. Everything. R&Fs equals the Rich and Famous.

I guess you could say outsourcing began in 1607 when England decided to outsource the growing of tobacco to the New World. More recently, the US owned Ford of England, GM owned Vauxhall. In Germany, there was Ford of Germany and Opel was owned by GM. At that time all Canadian cars were made in the US. Bottom line Fords were called Meteors, and the Mercury equivalent was called Monarchs. GM sent Chevrolets north but wearing the Indian head from Pontiac, Michigan. I said all that to remind that when WE were OWNING the means of production around the world, it was just great! Proof the American system worked best! So were we lying then, or are we lying now?

Right on robots. In the 1960s, the first American cars were CAD - computer assisted designed. Robots were first employed to make the welds so essential to making a tight car body. I recall visiting the Ford Heavy Truck Plant and watching one man holding what was like a remote control articulate a robot that lifted the large and heavy 2 wheel assembly to mount on the rear of the Class 8 trucks. One man doing what 2 or 3 would have done with a dolly and oh, so easy, it was a cake-walk.

I think where we have let down our own people is not putting them on long term unemployment - say 24 to 36 months - and offering high quality re-training courses - no typical American learn to drive trucks rip-offs - so that people can transition from one good paying job into another. But again, I often ask “How much money did you send your congressman last year?” Or you can work and vote for genuine CFR. Nothing will change until you do.

[edit on 8/9/2007 by donwhite]