Jupiter

Is Jupiter really got a solid core, or is it that the gas just gets so thick thats its a substitue for a core? Also, becasue knowing Jupiter was meant to be a star, what would have happened if it did become a star? would we exist? would there ever be a night? would pluto even exist?
Thats what i want to know, please get back to me on those things, I want answers!!!(Please)

There is more pressure towards the core, and therefore, the gas gets more dense, creating a solid core.

I don't know what type of core it has, but with the amount of pressure down there, it would have to be something quite dense. Maybe plasma?

Jupiter would have to have something like 7 times more mass to become a star, and if it did, it would have happened eons ago while the solar system was forming. It would be a very different place. It would become a binary system where the stars would orbit each other. There may not be any planets at all, let alone earth. For life to be present on earth, it needed some very specific conditions. With a binary system, those conditions may never have been met.

If Jupiter decided to become a star today (not possible) then you can pretty much say bye bye to the solar system and it current orbital patterns.

If we did orbit a binary star, at our current position we would get twice as much light and radiation, so it would be pretty nasty here. We would have a crazy orbit. If the earth still spun like it does now, we would still have night and day, just see 2 suns during the day.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by Toasty]

Thx Toasty But one more question remains, how did earth end up being within the 3 % that it needs to not be frozen, but the 3% to not be a scoldering piece of lava? its so close that its just not right, and why is it that the gas giants are considered planets? cause there practically all gas nayways thx again toasty, try to answer these ones also

Here's what wikipedia says about the core

en.wikipedia.org...

Jupiter is composed of a relatively small rocky core, surrounded by metallic hydrogen, with further layers of liquid hydrogen and gaseous hydrogen. There is no clear boundary or surface between these different phases of hydrogen; the conditions blend smoothly from gas to liquid as one descends.

The rocks more than likely come from asteroids an what not that Jupiter has pulled. As for Jupiter becoming a star, it would need to larger still (about 80 times larger) and I wouldn't say that it was 'meant' to be a star either.

But if it did ever become one, it's hard to say how it would effect us. It sure could make things brighter at night. But some nights would be darker than others, depending on where Jupiter would be relative to Earth. It wouldn't be as bright as the Sun though. And I don't think it would affect Pluto too much.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
Thx Toasty

But one more question remains, how did earth end up being within the 3 % that it needs to not be frozen, but the 3% to not be a scoldering piece of lava? its so close that its just not right, and why is it that the gas giants are considered planets? cause there practically all gas

nayways thx again toasty, try to answer these ones also

Do you mean how is it so that earth falls within the range perfectly so that it is the way it is? How it is perfectly placed for life?

My answer is that if it wasn't, we wouldn't be here to wonder hey? I think we are just lucky that earth is where it is. We have the right temperature, water and an atmosphere. All perfect for life, so life took advantage of the situation and that is why we are here today. Or you can believe that earth was 'created' and that's why it is how it is.

As for the definition of a planet, its a sketchy area (especially with the demotion of pluto recently). You can basically say a planet is a large collection of matter that orbits a star in a circular motion. It can be made of matter in any state, solid, liquid or gas, along as it is matter. Planets don't have to be solid, just made of matter.

In astronomical units we count the Earth as being 1 AU from our star.
That's about 93 million miles or 150 million kilometers.

Jupiter orbits our star at over 5 AU and is very small in comparison to the sun.
Just to compare, it would take about 318 Earths to equal the mass of Jupiter, but it would take 332,830 Earths to equal the mass of the sun. And it would take a thousand Jupiters to equal the mass of the sun.
That's quite a size difference.

The fifth planet from Sol at 5.2 times the Earth-Sun distance, Jupiter is the largest planet in the Solar System and so is visible in the night sky. Holding almost 318 times the mass of the Earth, it is more than twice as massive as all the other planets combined, with an equatorial diameter of 142,800 km (88,700 miles) that is more than 11 times wider than Earth's. Jupiter is so big that it is close to the maximum diameter possible for a gas planet. If the mass of many more Jupiters were dumped on the planet, it would only get slightly bigger because of increased gravitational compression. Although stars can be larger because the heat of nuclear fusion at their cores works against compression, Jupiter is actually much too "light" to ignite hydrogen fusion like a star.

Jupiter has only about 1/1,000th of Sol's mass, but it would have become a star if it was perhaps only 75 times more massive than it is. However, Jupiter is even too small to meet one of today's definition of a substellar brown dwarf because it can't even fuse deuterium (hydrogen nuclei composed one neutron as well as one proton) like young brown dwarfs that have accumulated at least 13 times the mass of Jupiter can.
www.solstation.com...

The smallest Brown Dwarfs.

Astronomers have found the tiniest full-fledged star known, an object just 16 percent bigger than Jupiter. It is smaller than some known planets that orbit other stars.

The star is a companion to a Sun-like star toward the center of our Milky Way Galaxy. It was found and measured by observing changes in the light output of the system when the smaller star passes in front of the larger star from our vantage point.

The discovery helps astronomers better understand a gray area of definition concerning stars and planets.

Between planets and stars, there exist odd objects called brown dwarfs. They're often referred to as failed stars, because they don't have enough mass to trigger the thermonuclear fusion that powers real stars, like the Sun. A brown dwarf is typically several times the mass of Jupiter, but astronomers haven't determined the exact size or mass cutoffs on either end.
www.space.com...

But these small stars don't emit nearly the amount of light like the one we depend on for survival on our planet.

So the best Jupiter will ever be is a grand planet that's really pretty to look at.





[edit on 20/12/2006 by anxietydisorder]

Lol you guys prittymuch sumed it up.

Jupiter is probably the most interesting object in the solar system in my opinion.I mean the planet attracts more astronomers over the other planets not just because of its size,but its mini solar system with its moons not to mention the atmospheric condition the planet is in all the time.

Many scientist would have no problem to say that our soler system consists mainly of our sun (sol),jupiter,and the leftovers of the solarsystem.

I was going to say that we still slightly effected by Jupiter's gravitational pull, imagine what would happen if it was a star....I doubt earth would be here.

thx guys . But teh question still remains, what woudlo have happened? think hypthetically please. Like what would be of all the other planets? Please answer this question

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
thx guys

. But teh question still remains, what woudlo have happened? think hypthetically please. Like what would be of all the other planets? Please answer this question

Well it's really hard to hypothesize since there isn't a lot of information to go on. Like if Jupiter were to become a star, how big would it be? I'd assume smaller than our Sun at least. And how hot and bright would it be and all that stuff.

Going on the assumption that a Jupiter Sun would be smaller, and probably not as hot or as bright as our Sun, I don't think it would have a strong effect on us or on the rest of the solar system. The closest Jupiter ever gets to Earth is about 4au (our Sun is 1au) and the furthest it can get is about 6au, so whatever its affect may be on us, it would fluctuate depending on the time of the year. Earth would probably be warmer, but I don't think it would become too warm that it would make life unbearable or anything.

Mars, being about .5au closer to Jupiter, may get a bit warmer during the times it gets closer to Jupiter, but again, no idea how warm that would be.

The biggest effect would be on Jupiter's many Moons.

Europa, which is covered in ice, would more than likely completely melt. The water might even become completely evaporated off it's surface (again, depending on how hot a Jupiter sun would be), although Europa is tidal locked, so only one side faces Jupiter at all times. So the far side might stay cool.

The other three larger moons like, Ganymede, Callisto and Io are similar to our Moon in that they are pretty barren, little to no atmosphere and not much there to begin with, except that Io is also very volcanically active. But I don't know what would happen to those places other than just increasing in surface temperature.

That's about all I can think of really. I'm sure there are things I may have forgot to consider.

Do you mean if Jupiter became massive enough to become a star, or do you mean what if Jupiter, with its present mass, became a star (I don't know if it could, but let's say it can for the sake of this thread).

If "our" Jupiter was a star, then its gravitational effect on us would not change, because its mass will still be the same. It's farthet away from us than the existing sun, so it would probably look dimmer.

We would sometimes lose our nights, depending on Jupiter's position relative to the Earth and our existing sun. For example, when the Earth was directly between the sun and Jupiter, then our nights would be "lit up". When Jupiter was more opposite the sun relative to Earth, then we would have two suns in the sky during the day, with normal nights.

The Jovian system would definitely be a different place. It would be interesting to know what effects it would have on Callisto, Ganymede (with its water-ice), and Europa (with it's water-oceans).

At the end of Arthur C. Clarke's 2010, this did happen -- Jupiter became a star. Clarke's sequel, 2064, (although not as good as 2010) was about the Jovian "star" system and especially Europa.

[edit on 21-12-2006 by Soylent Green Is People]

Wow thank god it didnt become a star, I still think the gravitational pull would affect us, resulting in maybe an figure 8 kind of orbit maybe? But also, what you guys left out is that if Jupiter did become a star there wouldnt be any planets because of the explosion stars make to become a star(i think its that way)

Also, How is it that Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune Dont just have there gases float away? What keeps the atmosphere staying where it is? Like for me i would think that it would all just 'Float' away.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by Nyte Angel]

The gases don't float away because they're attracted to the planet by gravity. Same reason why the Earth's atmosphere doesn't just float away.

Pay attention when astronomy comes up in science class.

Register for an astronomy course if you go to college.

Go to your library and read some books.

Google is a good place start right now.

Nothing in the Universe was meant to be, unless of course your of the faithful bunch. If you are a faithful person, then yes, Earth lies right in the perfect spot for life because it was created for us by the divine. If your not a faithful person, it was pure chance, and also, nothing says we have to have these conditions for life. They're necessary for OUR kind of life, but not all life.

cdrn, maybe the gases aren't attracted or pulled in. Maybe there pushed?

Found a nice pic of Jupiter's Callisto moon at:
www.solarviews.com...

Originally posted by Toasty

If Jupiter decided to become a star today (not possible) then you can pretty much say bye bye to the solar system and it current orbital patterns.

Why?

Jupiter as a star would presumably remain in it's current orbit, it's mass would be as it is now (the mass would reduce over time at a faster pace than today though). If Jupiter was to suddenly undergo fusion I can't see the solar system going haywire - no massive changes in orbits etc.

Planets would receive more radiation sure - but the tides on Earth would not change. And I think the additional warming from a second sun would be pretty negligible - nothing the world would not adapt to.

Not that I think it is passable for Jupiter to be a second sun - just being hypothetical here.

reply to post by Now_Then


Hey this is an old topic

I think if Jupiter did go nuclear, the effects would be far greater than we would realize. Life her on earth is quite fragile and very much reliant on the day / night cycle. Having a second (although much smaller) sun would mess our ecosystem up quite a lot just because of the extra daylight we would receive. Just remember how the cycle of our moon plays such an important part for many species on our planet. The moon is only a source of reflected light!

Here's a good pic that shows you how far away Jupiter is from becoming a star like the sun (Not enough mass, the sun contains 98% of ALL mass in our solar system):

Can I ride on your back while you swim to Crete?

Originally posted by jra
Europa, which is covered in ice, would more than likely completely melt. The water might even become completely evaporated off it's surface (again, depending on how hot a Jupiter sun would be), although Europa is tidal locked, so only one side faces Jupiter at all times. So the far side might stay cool.

I wonder what the latest scientific thinking on this is. Europa is tidally locked, so one side would definitely get scorched. But the other would receive no radiation at all from our hypothetical stellar Jupiter.

How close is Europa to Jupiter? How massive is it? If some of the water on its surface was vaporized, would it cling to the moon as atmosphere or just boil off into space? Would any be left to turn into an ocean?

If there was, well, water is a pretty good conductor of heat. Could the radiant heat impinging on the Jovian face be absorbed by all that water and conducted towards the opposite, spaceward face, where it would dissipate into space?

Obviously such a mechanism be affected by the presence or absence of an atmosphere round Europa. Any idea how it would be affected?

And... finally... is there a potential source of exploitable energy in all this?

reply to post by s_barrett


Hey thanks for that picture, its very nice. Going to have to save that and keep it somewhere safe .

Wow, I thought this topic totally died. Thanks for keeping it alive guys, good question Astyanax. Now I have another question.

How would we call it an ocean. Aren't oceans large bodies of water containing salt? I'm not to sure on that one but it's what I've always thought.