How Not To Be Banned From ATS...

... Or, A Word About Politeness.


We've been forced to engage in some rather frustrating exchanges with what seems to be an unusual increase in time-consuming troublesome members.

In one or two cases, it seems like the member has been able to see our methodology.

In one or two others, we continue to be exasperated at a lack of understanding.

And in still more cases, we've had to terminate access (banning).

There will be no naming of names, and any speculation will be frowned upon, but I thought it timely to stress one very important point.

Participation in ATS - BTS - PTS, on nearly any topic, is very easy -- all you need to do is be polite.

That's it. While our Terms & Conditions may seem length and complex, it really all condenses down to simply being polite to each other, polite to the staff, polite to the owners, and polite to the content of other people you'd like to share with ATS members.

Simple.


But hard.

You see, we're not like nearly every other discussion board. Some embrace rudeness, or at least seem not to be upset by it. Some embrace a free-for-all of minimal posts and drive-by insults, or at least revel in the resulting post-count.

It can be hard to make the transition to our environment if you've become used to the free-for-all of many other communities.

It can also be hard if you can't separate "stating your opinion" from "rudeness", or tell the difference between "free speech" and "freely cursing".

No one is ever banned from ATS for their opinions, ideas, connections, or theories. Everyone is always banned for simply not being able to politely function in the environment we've created.

Certainly very vocal and angry proponents of particular theories will see this as an attempt to silence them.

Certainly those unable to understand our requirements will see this as "over moderation" or uneven moderation.


If you come to ATS, and you have important ideas or information, this is an ideal search-engine-optimized place to tell the world. If communicating your ideas, opinions, and information is important to you, then it won't be hard to understand our simple requirement of politeness. If you can't understand, then what you have to say must not be that important after all.


And, in the end, even if what you have to say is important but cannot tolerate being polite, we would rather sacrifice the information than our standards.


Thank you.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


No one is ever banned from ATS for their opinions, ideas, connections, or theories. Everyone is always banned for simply not being able to politely function in the environment we've created.

THAT is the bottom line. In fact opinions, connections, theories is what makes most of ATS. The T&C, which ALL members(members and staff) must adhere to, makes the rest.

Certainly very vocal and angry proponents of particular theories will see this as an attempt to silence them.

Certainly those unable to understand our requirements will see this as "over moderation" or uneven moderation.

Most that come here understand this quickly and appreciate this. There are a few though that don't. ATS may not be for them then.

And, in the end, even if what you have to say is important but cannot tolerate being polite, we would rather sacrifice the information than our standards.


Thank you.

The strength of ATS.

So much for the "booyah" but it works.

Is being polite that hard? Even if you disagree?

Originally posted by intrepid

Is being polite that hard? Even if you disagree?

Yes. Sometimes it is truly just horribly difficult.

At such times, it is useful to search ThomasCrowne's list of Shakespearean insults.

(fyi)

I'm beginning to understand why this policy of politeness at ATS is having to be discussed repeatedly, and reminders of the T&C need to be posted on a continuing basis.

I've spent some time looking at other discussion boards on the net and crass behavior seems to be the norm. I see people shoot down someones ideas with one line of cursing without even stating any information to refute the other posters point of view.
Other boards seem to not care, some even encourage this sort of behavior.

I like to think of the ATS boards as being above that sort of behavior.
These boards are here for civilized people to take part in the discussion of almost any topic of interest, the free exchange of ideas.

Wipe the dog doo off your shoes before you enter.



Great post Skeptic, I wish I could give you a Way Above.

I think I lucked out in the fact that ATS was the first message board I actually signed up for. I had the benefit of not having to witness the "dark side". I've read some message boards after signing up where I was flabbergasted that staff would tolerate some of the stuff.

We have it good here.

Much thanks to all those who make it happen.

Originally posted by chissler
Much thanks to all those who make it happen.

And a return SU-FI my friend.

Maybe this is a good spot for a tale.

There once was a poster named, ummmm...Zeed. Now Zeed was doing fine although he had a brain that was 2 sizes too small. One day he stirred things up a bit with a pretty baiting comment. The staff member that contacted Zeed said that the comment was not needed and detracted from the great forum of AroundTheSecret.

Well Zeed was feeling a bit oppressed and pointed out he was so right with his comment. The staff member agreed it might have been right, but it was still a baiting comment.

At this point Zeed actually considered his own actions, owned the responsibility, and saw the other side of the issue. He agreed with staff member that he was too harsh, apologized, and edited his post. It was at this point that his brain started to grow, and grow, and grow. He felt at peace and harmony with the great forum AroundTheSecret and all other whos who were posting there.

The moral of the story is that sometimes, being indignate and standing your ground out of a silly notion of correctness is actually more damaging then just realizing your faults and owning up to them.

As for Zeed, well...he went on helping others and I'm told that if you close your eyes real tight and send a u2u wish, he will appear in puff of smoke. Then again...maybe not.

I've seen some pretty rude forums before joining ATS.Once in a while I see rudeness here but for the most part folks here are very polite.I'll never join another forum now cause the people here at ATS are the finest and smartest group of people on the face of the earth.That is no joke.Thanks ATS,and btw being polite isn't hard at all.

Great post, great thread. This should be required newbie reading. Like chissler, this is the first internet forum I ever joined and it's been (mostly) a good experience.

But, really, what is "polite"? Is it simply not cursing? Or, is it not being overtly offensive?

Here's the American Heritage definition: "Marked by or showing consideration for others, tact, and observance of accepted social usage."

I'm asking as a ex-avid ATS'er who was overwhelmed by impoliteness.

We all get peeved at people, lord knows i do...But you can do it in a way that isnt insulting, and kiss and make up.
We;re all humans and brothers and sisters.

Just kiss and make up and be civil. That's all.

BTW, i love you all, even if you have reservations about me. I do love you.

BTW, also, please refrain from calling people ignorant. That is very unflatering, more so to the person posting such a comment.
Thank you!~

[edit on 20-12-2006 by dgtempe]

I too am wondering what impoliteness is. The reason why I ask that is because it seems to be somewhat a subjective concept. To me, impoliteness constitutes name calling. While others might view it as being "overly" passionate about a subject.

What I have noticed about some of the posters here, not naming names, is that they will almost bait you into being "rude" or "impolite" to them. While I do not get into the whole name calling bit, there have been times, in hindsight, that I have posted things that could have been taken as being "rude" or "impolite." I think anytime we consider "impoliteness," it needs to be labeled such in context with what has occurred prior to the said "rudeness."

[edit on 20-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 20-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I think the key here is when you disagree with posts, attack ideas, not the members who put them forward.

As long as you stick to that, you're ok.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think the key here is when you disagree with posts, attack ideas, not the members who put them forward.

As long as you stick to that, you're ok.

AMEN to that, my friend.

What about a probationary 30 day excommunication period, ban from thread, and a warning u2u?

I would like to put it on public record that I felt the banning of DickBinBush was uncalled for.

It seemed to me that the subject of the Michael Richards thread was overly narrowed to a point where discussing the whole issue, inclusive of race and masonry, became impossible either on BTS or ATS. And the only thing that I saw of the supposed "personal attack" was:

Topics take on new subjects as they go along. They go in different directions. Clearly this is the new direction of the thread. So, unless you're going to give everybody a warning for being off-topic, then I'm guessing this is how it's going to stay since it's such a major issue.

and then

Oh now I'm being threatened? Wow you're a great representation of the moderators and this website. Haven't you threatened me before in another thread a while back? I believe you did. Do you have something against me? Go ahead, warn me, I don't care. The only one drifting off-topic here is you. You're destroying the current direction of the thread for no particular reason.

And I suppose that is personal and a bit sarcastic... but it was within the realm of polite. No name calling. The cited foul language was in previous posts and appeared as self-censored "bs" or "bull#", at one point binbush did sarcastically say "nice one, jackass" to another member; but that was the depths of foul (within this thread anyway).

But it seemed to me that Intrepid wanted the thread to follow the narrow focus of "Richards is an unexcusable mason" and the thread had up to that point developed to include the understandably pertinant race issue as a potential excuse.

I would have to agree with binbush that the conversation was headed in a direction, within the realm of the subject, and that direction was being destroyed without particular reason by a moderator who held a hardline stance on the issue:

NO ONE can excuse his rant [] Richards screwed up BIG TIME!

Fully expounding the race issue was the only way to potentially excuse Richard's rant. Binbush felt censored.

Another reason cited for banning was off topic commentary. When another member ventured off topic to "Borat", binbush tied it back to the subject, but still stood accused of being the one off topic:

they can't simply just find something funny..they have to take it all seriously.

Binbush interpreted Richards "'n-word'" comment as an attempt at humor (which it was)... Labeling heckling as something done only by "ignorant 'n-word's" could be construed as humor by the less than politically correct among us.

"look everyone!"

The topic of this thread (How Not To Be Banned) immediately made me think of binbush and I would like to hear some administrative commentary regarding his banning.

At the very least I would like to note my disagreement with the manner in which that particular thread was so narrowed in scope as to make debate nearly impossible.

I am,

Sri Oracle

we don't discuss sordid details, but what most of you fail to realize is that there is always a discussion/conversation going on behind the scenes between the problem members and staff. We work as a team around here and several moderators and staff on various levels all give input, try their methods of communication, etc, before action is taken. In the case of the above mentioned member it comes right back to being polite.

We do not tolerate blatant verbal abuse, derogatory statements, and cursing directed to any of our staff or members. It usually starts with just a warn, followed by several u2's, still sometimes people just fail to see the error of their ways and fail to be polite when defending themselves.

ever read the comments on youtube? man it's like ppl just make accounts to bag on others.

Originally posted by chissler
I think I lucked out in the fact that ATS was the first message board I actually signed up for. I had the benefit of not having to witness the "dark side". I've read some message boards after signing up where I was flabbergasted that staff would tolerate some of the stuff.

We have it good here.

Much thanks to all those who make it happen.

I would have to say that my experience is the same Chissler. It takes alot of work to keep this the quality sight that it is. ATS is the first tool I use to research anything that matters to me. While their are bad eggs their are also real researchers that provide substance to the threads. I have had alot of fun on BTS but ATS is the meat of this sight and I find myself learning and growing by reading the quality post I find on it. The ATS staff works hard to keep it that way.

I think that the mods are doing a good job. I have enjoyed being here and that they keep it from turning into a bashing thread. The members do a good job also of self policing. I have seen several disputes taken from the thread and on to the U2U side, and this was done between members without any mods stepping in.

i think the moderation on this website is very good.
i have never been to any other web forum, so, i cant realy compare.

one question.
if i want to question/comment on a moderation, is a u2u the proper channel?
------edit------
this has been answerd.
thank you.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by JSR]

Originally posted by JSR


one question.
if i want to question/comment on a moderation, is a u2u the proper channel?

Yes, or you can use the Complaints button in your Member Center.

Originally posted by JSR
one question.
if i want to question/comment on a moderation, is a u2u the proper channel?

Send a complaint/suggestion (found in the member center, bottom left link) which is then viewed by the entire staff.


If you were to u2u, realized that the staff member might be away for a period of time and not see it.