Is God's Presence in Heaven AND Hell?

One can accurately and safely say that God's Presence exists in Heaven. It is more complicated to say that His Presence is also in Hell. Hell, a place of pain and torment and an abode for sinners, is undesirable for all except the masochistic. Since Satan is just a minister of God to punish sinners, he has no authority for eternal destinies of Souls. God's Presence must be at least partly in Hell for those Souls who are in a temporary state of Hell. After all, Jesus Christ, the greatest and most enlightened person in world history spent 3 days in Hell according to the Apostle's Creed: "...He descended into Hell. On the third day, He rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father..." In other words, do not excessively worry if you are in a temporary state of Hell as you can still reach the indescribable Glory of Heaven. All things are possible with God.

I hope to meet all of you in Heaven!!!

If there is a "hell," then I'd say that God, being both omniscient and omnipresent, God would definitely be there as well. Although, my whole take on "hell" has been defined as having the absence of God. However, when I truly examine this idea of "absence of God," I have to wonder how that can possibly be. So, Great tech, on this account I probably would have to agree with you.

[edit on 17-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

GT - there is NO WHERE that God is NOT....

IOW - God is with us all - all the time - every minute of every day in all things that we do, say, think, and feel....just because we do not extend toward God in our being-ness doesn't force personal solitude.

Read Psalm 139 for a reminder from King David!

Nice cacti Queenie.

Triad Nimrod tree. Sweet.

I wonder what a litte would do to it.


OOPS.....Merry Christmas

Queen Annie, I have a question. There is a part of Psalm 139 that states:

For no word arises on my tongue, My LORD God, that you do not wholly designate.

What are the connotations of this to you..I know what they are to me,but I am curious what you think it means.

[edit on 17-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 17-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by queenannie38
GT - there is NO WHERE that God is NOT....

IOW - God is with us all - all the time - every minute of every day in all things that we do, say, think, and feel....just because we do not extend toward God in our being-ness doesn't force personal solitude.

Read Psalm 139 for a reminder from King David!

queenannie38, I can think like you on this issue, God's Omnipresence. However, what is the TRUE major reason why there is pain and suffering in this world and apparently parts of the afterlife? Is it due to God's loneliness, being the only Life in the Universe? (If we did have separation from God in this Life, then God would not be Omnipresent.) Or would the TRUE major reason for pain and suffering in this world be that we would not know what happiness and joy were without them? Does God suffer?

Why is the nature of mans free will not ,in your philosophy somewhere?
I do not think that God made us into robots to do his bidding on earth,
nor does he shape our every move.
I think he created us in the IMAGE of himself, which, if we go by
biblical accounts means just that......
If Satan was once an Angel of God, yet became jealous
of his Omnipotence and was thrown into the pit,
He HATES the VERY image
of God ( Us) and will seek to destroy all of God's creations.

I think that God is everywhere, in the air .....
and gives life to all ........
Now it is in the soul of a man...good & evil,
It is Us that must be accountable .
Which is to me.the definition of evil....
To destroy life and intend harm
and the worst.......is to do it In Gods name!

Does God suffer?

YES!!
I think he suffers at the sight of what his creations
are doing to one another, with his gift of free will!
and as Revelations predicts...will end it !

If he created it in 7 days........
perhaps he will start over
and this time....INSTILL his word in our minds
so we do not wander in the dark!

Originally posted by Ex

Does God suffer?

YES!!
I think he suffers at the sight of what his creations
are doing to one another, with his gift of free will!
and as Revelations predicts...will end it !

If he created it in 7 days........
perhaps he will start over
and this time....INSTILL his word in our minds
so we do not wander in the dark!

Ex, where can you prove that free will exists? The stronger I believe in God, the less I believe in free will.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Ex, where can you prove that free will exists? The stronger I believe in God, the less I believe in free will.

No doubt we have free will. It was Eves free will that allowed her to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Though mislead by the devil she had the ability to ignore the word and direction from God.

We also have free will according to the salvation provided by Jesus.

EDIT: but I think I know what you are saying. I feel I don't even need to make a decision about my faith, it's just there.

[edit on 12/18/2006 by kinglizard]

kinglizard, thank you for your comments. Does free will eliminate the possibility of God being Omnipresent?

Originally posted by GreatTech
Does free will eliminate the possibility of God being Omnipresent?

Boy, I don't even know where to begin with this question.lol

I would assume any restrictions or allowances given or enforced on one of Gods creations would not and could not limit God.

As to the question of God being in Hell I would say that God is love and light and my picture of hell is void of God and light. Some say the very meaning of hell is the absence of God. But we know God is everywhere so does that include Hell.

On one hand:

God is everywhere

On the other

Hell is the absence of God

I guess to make the two mesh which would be required God would have to be in hell but nobody there can see or feel his presence.

I mean this is a weird exercise and these are very new thoughts to me so take my words with a grain of salt.

[edit on 12/18/2006 by kinglizard]

I believe Free Will is The power of making free choices
unconstrained by external forces.

You can either sit in your computer chair or get up
and get a drink.

You can swear allegiance to an unjust government
and feel righteous in that decision..or raise your arm in rebellion

You can choose to believe that there is a huge universe out there
awaiting discovery and a thread that binds all
or
you can choose to believe that YOU are the center of that universe
and have no need for exploration of self ..or your surroundings.

FREE WILL

Why is believeing in God.and Free Will at odds with you??

Originally posted by Ex
Why is believeing in God.and Free Will at odds with you??

I have extreme difficulty with the concept of free will for many reasons, but I will mention just two:
1) God is Love and Loves His creation, but free will assumes that God sometimes separates Himself from creation, and He would not do this if He were Love.

2) Free will assumes that God is not Omniscient because Omniscience requires that you never separate yourself from your creation, that is Omniscience requires Omnipresence. Since God is Omniscient and Omnipresent, He can Perfectly judge our Souls when we face judgment. Without Omniscience and Omnipresence, God would not be Perfect; the Truth remains that God is Perfect. Free will would be like saying God missed an act or deed we performed when in truth He misses nothing. God is there in each person's life, no matter whether he or she is cognizant of it.

All of this is just my perspective , but this is how I see it:

1) God is Love and Loves His creation, but free will assumes that God sometimes separates Himself from creation, and He would not do this if He were Love.

As any parent will tell you, we cannot control our children.
Once they reach a certain age, we have to have faith in the lessons
we have taught them and their acceptance or rejection of our truths .
Our truths may not be theirs, as I am sure yours are not the same as
your parents. I personally think this is a wonderful thing,
as they develop their own way in the world...
it doesn't mean they Love you any less
It just means that you are now responsible for your own decisions .

I think it is the same way with God....
We, as his children, have the right to reject or accept principles
That religion has told us are true....
and I certainly do not think they are all true,
as the Bible and Religion, and differing denominations have
put their own slant on THEIR Truth.
I do think the Ten Commandments say it very well....
and I do try and live by those.
I am also frustrated with the churches of the day!

I don't think He separates himself from us....
It is US that turn our backs on him..
He does Love us unconditionally
and asks only that we acknowledge our mistakes,
and learn from them..No more than any Loving parent would do!

Free will assumes that God is not Omniscient because Omniscience requires that you never separate yourself from your creation, that is Omniscience requires Omnipresence. Since God is Omniscient and Omnipresent, He can Perfectly judge our Souls when we face judgment. Without Omniscience and Omnipresence, God would not be Perfect; the Truth remains that God is Perfect. Free will would be like saying God missed an act or deed we performed when in truth He misses nothing. God is there in each person's life, no matter whether he or she is cognizant of it.

He didn't miss an act of the play..
He was watching silently and without pause!
It is US that try and hide our flaws.when in truth
these very flaws are what make us human.

Ever see your image in a mirror...??
That isn't what you are
I think that is how hollow and imperfect we are, next to God!!

Why do you think you are here ??
What purpose and talent has he given you ?

Originally posted by Ex

As any parent will tell you, we cannot control our children.
Once they reach a certain age, we have to have faith in the lessons
we have taught them and their acceptance or rejection of our truths .
Our truths may not be theirs, as I am sure yours are not the same as
your parents. I personally think this is a wonderful thing,
as they develop their own way in the world...
it doesn't mean they Love you any less
It just means that you are now responsible for your own decisions .

The analogy between God and people, and parents and children is not completely correct. Your right that parents cannot control their children, especially at a certain age. However, God can and does control people for His Infinite Will, something that is incontrovertible. God is Supernatural, better said Supremenatural, while humans are only natural. God has no flaws. If God could not and does not control everything I am afraid the earth would fly into the sun or the sun would just burn out. Furthermore, love would not exist as humans have so many flaws that God, the creator of Love, infuses it into our Soul and Spirit.

Originally posted by Ex
Why do you think you are here ??
What purpose and talent has he given you ?

I am here to love God, family, friends, neighbors, strangers, and all of God's creation.

The talent (we ALL have talents, even those rumored to have none) I have is in mathematics, and when I feel inspired, I contribute to medical research, especially in heart disease, cancer, and stroke.

Why do you think you are here?

What talent has He given you?

Originally posted by kinglizard

No doubt we have free will.

Really? You know, I hear people talk about this "free will" that everyone suposedly has. Where in the bible does it explicitly,not implicitly, state that we have "free will?" I am like Great Tech, the more I am led to believe in God, the less I am inclined to believe that man has this airy "free wil."

Somthing else someone needs to consider. When have you seen a person make a decision based on what they wanted to do, rather than on circumstance? How can one deem making a decision based on circumstance rather than desire "free will?"

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Queen Annie, I have a question. There is a part of Psalm 139 that states:

For no word arises on my tongue, My LORD God, that you do not wholly designate.

What are the connotations of this to you..I know what they are to me,but I am curious what you think it means.

Well, i can only apply it personally according to actual experience - and in that regard it means that my words are not my words but rather God's design for something more than just the pleasure of hearing my own voice.

Of course it hasn't always applied that way; for most of my life i was just existing but now i live and if i live, i live for God and through God. And so that means all that i do is according to that premise.

it actually makes things a lot easier and no stress to make me ill, either!

What does it mean to you?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Nice cacti Queenie.

Triad Nimrod tree. Sweet.

I wonder what a litte

would do to it.

Dunno! Let's try it on your hiney first and see! JK

OOPS.....Merry Christmas

Happy Holidays to you, too!

BTW - that is a Saguaro Cactus - something we have here in the SW desert of the USA - as far as I know there is no such fauna in the fertile crescent!

Originally posted by GreatTech
However, what is the TRUE major reason why there is pain and suffering in this world and apparently parts of the afterlife?

Physical pain in the material realm is just part of the package - sensations of pleasure inherently include potential unpleasant sensation, as well.

Mental pain and suffering is also inherently part of the mortal state of mind; however it is not required and is actually due to our propensity to think such things as:
'if only i had this' or 'if only this would happen' (then i would be happy/complete/successful etc.)
The ultimate futility in that way of thinking is that there will ALWAYS be ANOTHER 'if only' to follow after each one is resolved, in turn.

We do not realize that satisfaction is totally founded within ourselves apart from material circumstances and possessions - and therefore we cause our own suffering through imposed dissatisfaction.

'When wishes are few, the heart is happy. When desire ends, there is peace.'

Is it due to God's loneliness, being the only Life in the Universe?

God is not the only living thing in the cosmos; nor is all life confined to this planet (although physical life does start and remain here so far - but we are alive even when we sleep - it is an issue of consciousness not solitude).

(If we did have separation from God in this Life, then God would not be Omnipresent.)

Our individual inability (or not) to perceive God within us and permeating all things both sentient and not has no bearing whatsoever on the circumstance of God's being-ness.

God is in all things - whether we are aware of that or not does not change where He is!

Or would the TRUE major reason for pain and suffering in this world be that we would not know what happiness and joy were without them?

We learn through our sufferings and trials - we prove things to our souls that we cannot prove except through a corpreal existence. Suffering is not necessarily bad or harmful - in fact it is a beautiful thing on the other side of it all...it is always a matter of perception, nothing more.

Does God suffer?

??

Right now i would say that wisdom is the point beyond the suffering - perhaps God HAS suffered but i do not think God suffers now.