Revealed for the First Time Color Images of the Moon from Clementine Satellite

Since they do appear to be composite images, I would be interested to know what minerals the colors represent. There seems to be a lot of blue, so I will start trying to figure out what mineral the blue corresponds with.

Anybody know off the top of their head?

basalt maybe? but not all the blue is basalt.

take my word on this.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Like you told us, it wasn't a NASA mission, so NASA can not be the one to blame in this
case.

Good grief you guys are getting REALLY SILLY now "NASA et al" means NASA and OTHERS" I understand your difficulty with the langauge and respect that , but if you are going to quote against me, you should know what I am saying, yes?

Let me see if I can explain what I have understood about the colours.

Obviously you do not understand what Natural Colors mean when the USGS says that. I am willing to take them at their word because they post them right above the directory that has the False Color versions.

So, they didn't want to take photos with the colours we usually see, they wanted to see the Moon under those lights to spot specific differences between the different types of rock.

THEY being the original users of the DATA, but the USGS and the University of Arizona are now showing these for the PUBLIC. And just as a side thought, maybe THEY WANTED to see the blue
and yellow "glowies"

I will not comment on things seen in those images that could have a different aspect with a different colour before I know if we are seeing or not the true colours, as a normal human being
sees them.

The purpose of this thread was to show the public these beautiful images, and to discuss the CONTENT of these images... To make a statement that you will not comment on the content is ridiculous!

AH I see what is going on here...

You won't comment on the image content, because you and the others intend to fill this thread with constant arguments about color.

Okay WE GET IT You do not believe the color is natural despite what the USGS says on their own website, and most likely has spent millions of dollars to present these beautiful images to the
public..

Not one of you will answer me directly as to WHEN you first saw these tiffs and the mapper... seeing as they were around so long... not one of you has presented these images in any thread or even a portion of one of them, nor provided a link to anything regarding them. It is easy to search after the fact... the point is I am willing to bet you hve never seen these images in the .tiff or mapper before this thread.... Again that was part of the purpose... to share these images

What color they are or are not also has nothing to do with whats IN the images... if a crater is blue or purple in false color, and shows the center blacked out or its in natural color with the center blacked out, the fact remains the CENTER IS BLACKED OUT... we are asking WHY... for what purpose... Seems a simple enough request, doesn't it?

So if you cannot answer a direct question like when you first saw the, seems to me your only purpose is to fill the thread with reams of issues about color.

Okay we accept you do not believe they are real color...
The USGS and our group believe they are...

Agree to disagree... end of story

Originally posted by makeitso
Anybody know off the top of their head?

Ilmenite
The stuff is all over mixed with Titanium 8% or something like that in the samples from Apollo
But Ilmenite doesn't glow

Cobalt
Don't recall that in the mineral reports Most people are familiar with "cobalt blue"
Cobalt can be highly radioactive in certain man made isotopes [cobalt 60] and can glow

Clementine Mineral Reports
landoflegends.us...



[edit on 16-12-2006 by zorgon]

I call this one, "White Tank" for the obvious reasons. Almost looks like it has something written on the side of it.

Originally posted by jra
It's not that they can't, it's that they don't need to. What purpose does true colour help in scientific study? Absolutely nothing!

Simple... because they have to also cater to the public to keep their funding alive.

As for the minerals the colors represent, I am glad to see a response to that part. It is important it seems. I located an article by the main man himself. Here is a snippet of what he says the colors represent.

The Clementine Mission to the Moon
Adapted from a 1995 presentation by Eugene Shoemaker

Imaging in 11 colors
Turning to Clementine�s cameras, they looked at the moon in 11 colors, sharply-defined colors as determined by interference filters on a filter wheel that could be rotated into the optical train of each principal camera. The colors were chosen by analysis of the spectral reflectance of the moon rocks and of samples of lunar soil. We chose the colors so that we could identify the major mineral constituents of the lunar surface.

Important were the spectral bands of the minerals pyroxene, plagioclase, olivine, and ilmenite. We wanted to be able to determine the proportions
of the different minerals so that we could identify and map the distribution of rock types.

Although most of the data from the two million images are still being interpreted, it has been possible to take some preliminary looks at the data. Using the ratios of only three colors, a global view of the moon, made at three different rotations separated by 120 degrees, shows pink
regions where there is very fresh rock; orange regions representing the highlands of the moon and mostly made of the mineral plagioclase; blue regions which are basaltic lavas; a light blue color indicating a high-titanium basalt; and an indigo color, which is a low-titanium basalt. (These artificial colors are merely a way of presenting differences in the color ratios.) You can see differences that reflect the rock types plus the effect of weathering.

So it does appear that the blue does represent basalt lava, and titanium basalt.

Using the True Color image from the UK, John outlined the shape that he sees in Aristarchus� blue glow.

His opinion is that it is a nuclear power plant that supplies power for all the cities on the moon.

He says he must be crazy because everybody knows there are no cities on the moon.

P.S. He says that long snaky thing is in fact a road and it goes into the tunnel entrance at the end (its bright inside the tunnel entrance).

John's Sketch


The original clipping

Well Aristarchus has some interesting stuff to the left of it, such as this:

The Guardhouse

This is interesting about the blue in Arisarchus.

Volcanic History of Central Oceanus Procellarum from Clementine Data

�We create a near true colour image using the 415 nm band to represent blue, 750 nm to represent green and 950 nm red. This image aids in distinguishing different compositional regions

Colour on composite: Blue
Typical units: fresh craters; some mare units
Interpretation: immature (crystal-rich); high-Ti lavas

Fig. 4. True Colour map. This map shows our studied region: Central Oceanus Procellarum. The Aristarchus region can be seen in the upper right corner (volcano with white central core). This image is produced such that the 415 nm band of Clementine represents blue, 750 nm represents green and 950 nm red.

Figure 4


Below is the original Clementine 750nm albedo map image of the Aristarchus region, prior to compilation of the simulated true colour map image seen above, (Fig. 4).



So, my question now is, would a nuclear power facility on the moon , (inside a crater), show up in the 415nm band, represented by the color blue? If so, why and how specifically?



[edit on 12/17/06 by makeitso]

I will ask John later...

Personally I am going with some kind of plasma energy generator or collector... the color is right for that and the wispy, luminous strands that you always see in and around Aristarchus indicate that... But I only started looking into that... LOL

I have to eat sleep and do the day job sometime you know.

The Apollo 11 crew mission logs record talks of glowing in and around the crater, Armstrong specifically describes it as "fluorescence" though even he says that not quite the right term, its brighter than that...

Found a document from 1961 that I am studying that indicates the intensity changes drastically at different times... report when done

Found this little curiousity in a trivia collection...

There is no shortage of TLP having been observed by reputable astronomers. William Herschel, one history's greatest astronomers (he discovered the planet Uranus in 1781), observed a red glow in the vicinity of the crater Aristarchus on 4 May 4 1783, at a time when that feature was situated on the unilluminated lunar hemisphere. Through his 225 mm reflecting telescope the glow appeared as bright as a star of magnitude 4.

Point right now is that in the above image, that pretty light electric blue is true color observed from Earth. So the Clementine argument is a mute point on that image...

One of the first real attempts to catalogue a large number of TLP sightings was made on behalf of NASA and published in a report which gave details of 579 mysterious lunar events dating from 26 November 1540 (pre-telescopic) to 19 October 1967 [4]. The catalogue appeared just a year before Neil Armstrong planted his size 11 boot in the Sea of Tranquillity; strange that such an important and well-funded Moon-landing programme chose to arm itself with some basic historical TLP data only at the very last minute.

Oh heres a good one...

One of the most notable TLP sightings occurred at 18:45 UT on 19 July 1969, when the crew of Apollo 11 observed the northwest wall of Aristarchus to be displaying some kind of peculiar luminous activity. At the same time, German astronomers Prusse and Witte of the Institute for Space Research in Bochum, observing with a 150 mm refractor, noted brightenings in Aristarchus lasting five to seven seconds

I like that one!!

Source

Sooo it seems NASA is aware of strange glowing things on the moon.. and even catalogues them.



Also seems very interesting to me that Aristarchus would act up precisely at the moment Apollo 11 was over top of it watching... and act up strong enough to be seen on Earth at the same time!!!


One more clip from that article...

The Moon is highly neglected by both professional and amateur astronomers alike. Neglected, in fact, to the point where research into TLP - which continue to take place, whether they are being monitored from the Earth or not - now lies solely in the hands of the enthusiastic amateur.

Being such a creature myself, I have spent many hours looking at the Moon and getting to know its surface. In more than 200 hours of telescopic lunar observation since 1982 I have been lucky to observe only one event that I am fairly certain was a TLP. On 31 May 1985, an apparent hill was seen on the floor of the crater Herodotus (next door to Aristarchus). This was unusual, since Herodotus has a flat floor! In a period of nearly two hours, from 20:00 UT onwards, the hill appeared to flatten and disappear, its sunlit face becoming dimmer, its shadow narrowing and fading. Alas, circumstances ruled out obtaining independent confirmation, but I have since learned that this temporary hill phenomenon has been observed in the past, taking exactly the same form as my own observation but occurring at an opposite surface illumination, ie., an evening sun rather than, in my case, a scene lit by a morning sun

Red glows, blue glows, changing glows and disappearing/reappearing hills... viewed by amateur and professional astronomers, studied and cataloged by NASA and observed first hand on site by Astronauts...

Pretty good evidence for me...



[edit on 17-12-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by SteveR
very hard to judge the 3-D characteristics of these formations

Ah yes I am glad you brought that up Steve..
Try also the "Shaded Relief Airbrush"

Hmm, thanks for looking into this. Those two options you suggested have really poor image quality though. I don't think they're any more useful for the locations we're examining. If following this entire investigation through, after compiling a list of locations and saving them, I would cross over onto real telescopes and not continually rely on NASA imagery (except for the far side).

Originally posted by zorgon
Scopes:
Skywatcher 250px 10" reflector.
Skywatcher 80ED

Imaging setup:
SC1 modded Toucam pro 2.
SAC 8-2 webcam based B/W CCD

Thanks Zorgon. Look up the cameras he's using. Really crappy webcams and already he is matching the detail of Clementine's closest shots. There is plenty of room for improvement here!

(and plenty being withheld..)

Originally posted by undo
Select your preferred Lunar dataset below.

Clementine 750nm Basemap
Clementine Albedo (Natural Color)
Clementine Ratio (False Color)
Shaded Relief Airbrush
Clementine LIDAR Topography
Clementine UVVIS Multi-Band*

pdsmaps.wr.usgs.gov...

No, this is the link you should be giving him:
pdsmaps.wr.usgs.gov...

They won't find it otherwise


About the wavelengths..

Arguing about the color is irrelevant for several reasons. One, it doesn't matter what frequency the image with glowing light is - the fact that glowing light is present already signifies something worthy of investigation. Two, capturing images with an emphasis on one particular wavelength does not invalidate topographic anomalies. It doesn't matter if it's a full color shot, or an UV, you are still seeing an electromagnetic rendering of the landscape. Three, as I already hinted at, these anomalies are down there and they exist - they have even been verified by apollo astronauts who saw them with their own eyes. And in some cases, as with the glowing lights, the Sun WAS behind the moon.

Focus on the anomalies, no need to get caught up on the color debate.. whether the color skeptics are right or wrong, it doesn't take anything away from Zorgon's work.

Originally posted by SteveR
Thanks Zorgon. Look up the cameras he's using. Really crappy webcams

and already he is matching the detail of Clementine's closest shots. There is plenty of room for improvement here!

Hey give him a break... he is barely starting out... and as he says money is tight. That image was his first attempt at the mosaic and he has poor viewing conditions. I am sending him a filter we raised money for so he can filter out city light pollution..

Not too shabby for a beginner...OH and so far we only have the 80% 10 meg version.. he is refining the 100% 90 meg version and will send it on a disk...

Isn't foreign exchange wonderfull?

Here is another interesting clip on the Aristarchus angle...

* 23 October 1999
* Charles Seife
* Magazine issue 2209

REPORTS of curious flashes and fleeting clouds on the Moon may not be figments of wild imaginations, astronomers say. A new look at observations by the American satellite Clementine show that a small area on the Moon's surface darkened and reddened in April 1994. Why this happened remains a mystery.

For hundreds of years, people have reported seeing flashes, short-lived clouds and other brief changes on the Moon's surface. But astronomers have never been able to confirm the sightings. "The events were observed on many occasions, but most astronomers don't believe in them," says Bonnie Buratti of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

On 23 April 1994, around a hundred amateur astronomers reported seeing a possible darkening of the Moon, lasting 40 minutes, near the edge of the bright lunar crater Aristarchus. At the same time, the US Department of Defense's Clementine satellite was mapping the lunar surface.

Intrigued ...
The complete article is 334 words long.

Source

So the crater brightened noticably for a few seconds when Apollo was overhead, and darkened for 40 minutes when Clementine passed over... BOTH TIMES with independant observation from Earth telescopes.

Also intriguing is the reason NASA now gives for its interest in Aristarchus...

Aristarchus crater is on the line where one of the Moon's bright areas and grey areas meet. It has long been suspected of having particularly diverse geology, says NASA scientist Dr Jim Garvin.

At Aristarchus, Hubble detected what appears to be an abundance of the mineral ilmenite, which is good news, says NASA lunar scientist Dr Michael Wargo.

By heating or passing an electrical current through ilmenite, it's a simple matter to release oxygen, which can be used for breathing and for rocket fuel, he explains.

Source - Hubble article

So ilmenite being titanium bearing... electrical currents... releasing oxygen...



[edit on 17-12-2006 by zorgon]

I had no idea that guy was directly involved with this thread or your project. I thought you stumbled on his work in search results . I am saying he is doing a great job matching the Clementine photos, and it's inspiring that there is plenty of room for improvement.

Originally posted by SteveR
I had no idea that guy was directly involved with this thread or your project. I thought you stumbled on his work in search results

. I am saying he is doing a great job matching the Clementine photos, and it's inspiring that there is plenty of room for improvement.

Nope originally found him by google search... simply traded for picture rights... only have the one big image so far...and you should have it on your computer as it was linked from the files I linked you to. Look at it and turn up the brightness just a little... see the colors?

I will post that later. Take a look though at the area around Aristarcus back out a bit and look at it on Nearside.tiff as well... Notice something unusual?

And I forget who posted this image of the Hubble Telescope shot of Aristarchus...



LOL You might want to recheck that image... because according to NASA that is an animation still "HST imagery of Aristarchus Crater draped over simulated topography" SIMULATED

And where did they get the DATA for the simulation?

Animators:
Greg Shirah (Lead)
Alex Kekesi
Greg Bacon
Studio: SVS
Completed: 2005-10-12
Scientist: James Garvin (NASA/GSFC)
Instruments:
HST/ACS
Clementine/HIRES
Data Collected: HST: 2005/08/16 - 2005/08/21; Clementine:1998/02/07-1999/06/25

Clementine 1998 to 1999??? Really? So after they scrubbed the trip to the Asteroid they sent it back to redo Aristarchus?

SOURCE

According to USGS
"Due to a malfunction on May 7th, 1994, Clementine exhausted its fuel after the successful mapping of the lunar surface, and did not complete the visit to the asteroid."

27 October 1997 President Clinton veto's launch of Clementine II

So whats going on here?

[edit on 17-12-2006 by zorgon]

Weird stuff Ron.

As to the PDS for a moment.. here's a few I've found (added my view of Aristarchus also.)

Using:
pdsmaps.wr.usgs.gov...











Saving the best for last... meet Tycho. At half res:




The walls at full res (hint hint).




You can find Tycho at -43 Latitude, 348.5 Longitude.

Enjoy.

[edit on 17/12/06 by SteveR]

Originally posted by zorgon
Good grief you guys are getting REALLY SILLY now "NASA et al" means NASA and OTHERS" I understand your difficulty with the langauge and respect that , but if you are going to quote against me, you should know what I am saying, yes?

Sorry, my mistake, this time it wasn't a language problem, just a lack of attention.

For some reason I did not noticed the "et al".

And my intention wasn't to quote against you, I just wanted to clarify the situation, but instead I only made things worse.

Originally posted by zorgon
Obviously you do not understand what Natural Colors mean when the USGS says that. I am willing to take them at their word because they post them right above the directory that has the False Color versions.

No, I do not understand what they mean.

In my opinion they may mean that those are the colours as a normal human being would see them, or they may mean that those are not false colours because they were not shifted to a different colour.

If we use a camera that has a ultra-violet, a red and 3 infra-red filters, the images made with the combination of those filters are the natural colours seen with those filters, but they are not the colours as we would see them.

If instead they used the broad-band filter, then the images have all the colours that we see.

This is my only problem with the colours.

The purpose of this thread was to show the public these beautiful images, and to discuss the CONTENT of these images... To make a statement that you will not comment on the content is ridiculous!

I said that I will not comment until I know what I am talking about. I am not willing to talk about a golden area on the Moon when in fact that area has a different colour and appears golden only because the photo was taken with a different filter.

I make enough mistakes when I know what I am talking about, that is why I want to really know what I am talking about before I make the comments, not after.

AH I see what is going on here...

You won't comment on the image content, because you and the others intend to fill this thread with constant arguments about color.

Apparently you don't see it.

I do not have any intention of filling this thread with arguments about colour.

If other people want to do that, that's their business, not mine.

All of my posts here on ATS have been my own opinions or my way of showing something to others. I have never made any post in combination with other ATS members, and I would never join other members just with the intention of filling any thread with any type of posts (I think that may even go against the paragraph 2d of the T&C).

Not one of you will answer me directly as to WHEN you first saw these tiffs and the mapper... seeing as they were around so long... not one of you has presented these images in any thread or even a portion of one of them, nor provided a link to anything regarding them. It is easy to search after the fact... the point is I am willing to bet you hve never seen these images in the .tiff or mapper before this thread.... Again that was part of the purpose... to share these images

I have seen those images before this thread but because of this post that you made. (PS: what happened to the images you posted in that thread?)

I never presented those images because you were going to do it and because I was not interested in doing it.

What color they are or are not also has nothing to do with whats IN the images... if a crater is blue or purple in false color, and shows the center blacked out or its in natural color with the center blacked out, the fact remains the CENTER IS BLACKED OUT... we are asking WHY... for what purpose... Seems a simple enough request, doesn't it?

Yes, it is a simple request, but I was not answering your request, my answer about not commenting the photos was to undo, that said that no one told what that "fire thing" was.

That "fire thing" looks only as a "fire thing" because of the colours, that was the reason for my answer.

I have to admit that this stuff is having me to rethink some things.
The mining operations on the moon pics were lame to me and I didnt see anything there. This, however is a little bewildering.

My list of anomalies (not all of them of course, but a good place to start)


And God said, Let there be....
www.thestargates.com...

White Tank
www.thestargates.com...

Gold Ship
www.thestargates.com...

Gold Cone/ship
www.thestargates.com...

Floating Craters
www.thestargates.com...

Giant Snail
www.thestargates.com...

Eye of Ra
www.thestargates.com...

Bronzy
www.thestargates.com...

Mr. Fish
www.thestargates.com...

Wax On, Wax Off
thestargates.com...

Reiner Gamma (Full Version)
www.thestargates.com...

Aristarchus (Zorgon's copy of Mike's 10-inch telescope pic of Aristarchus)
landoflegends.us...

Global view (a portion of the lunar surface as seen in a more 3-D type of angle)
thestargates.com...

===========

pdsmaps.wr.usgs.gov...



[edit on 17-12-2006 by undo]

[edit on 17-12-2006 by undo]