Teachers packing heat

State Senator Bob Beers of Colorado has just introduced a bill to help control guns in schools in Colorado by allowing all school personnel to carry concealed weapons after appropriate training. I am not sure this is a real bright light bulb of an idea. I can see more problems than good coming out of it? Anybody else got some ideas and thoughts?

Jubal 55 I teach but would never carry a gun to class

Well,considering that crime rates have gone down in states where citizens can legally carry concealed hand guns, I am not sure that it is such a "dim bulb" idea either.

Why are there school shootings?

Answer.

A target rich environment and no one to use deadly force in return.

Allow teachers the choice of carrying a concealed firearm and the bad guy will think twice. The illusion that a teacher has a firearm maybe enough to stop a school shooting.

Roper

Any weapon inside of a school, is bad. Whether a child, or a teacher, is carrying it, it is bad news. Honestly, what the hell is allowing teachers to carry a weapon going to accomplish? Look at any school shooting, did they stand up and publicly announce their plans? No, they come in blazing without saying a word. It's not like the teachers have time to prepare themselves. And if a child does come in firing off a weapon, are the teachers going to fire back? Is this legal? In a public area, if you shoot me, and I shoot you, are they both not illegal acts? It's like murder. Murder is murder, is murder.

Correct me if I am wrong on that point, because I am only speculating my beliefs.

What this is going to lead to, is teachers killing students. A new pandemic will be on our hands where stressed out teachers are going to have a weapon at their disposal.

I've never owned a gun, never shot a gun, and never want to. I do carry a bias when it comes to issues like this, but I just do not see how any of this is necessary.

Absolutely absurdity, and bordering on illegal itself.

Parents feel uneasy about sending their children to school already. Would the fact that teachers are carrying a weapon, alleviate any of that uneasiness? Honestly?

A weapon is a weapon, I don't care who's hand it is in. This would only instill more fear, in my opinion.

[edit on 15-12-2006 by chissler]

It's a rediculous idea IMO. There are so many reasons why, but this one came to mind first: It's uneccessary. The risk is so low, it doesn't warrant it.

Science teachers with guns, is also a scary idea, training or not.

Originally posted by chissler
And if a child does come in firing off a weapon, are the teachers going to fire back? Is this legal? In a public area, if you shoot me, and I shoot you, are they both not illegal acts? It's like murder. Murder is murder, is murder.

I don't know what it is called in Canada, but in the US when someone shoots at me and I return fire is is called self-defence. Chances are that this law isn't going to get passed, and if some how it does, it doesn't mean that teachers are going to start carrying weapons. Most school districts will be so worried about the liability of armed teachers that they won't allow them to carry. This is just a BS piece of legislation proposed by a moron who just wants to get his name in the news.

One of my greatest concerns with this, in addition to those mentioned in previous posts, is that a teacher with a weapon could very well be 'ambushed' by students in order to get the weapon. I think we have all heard a story or two (maybe more) where a teacher was attacked. Now imagine if they had a gun and were overtaken by several students. The possible result is chilling, to say the least.

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 12/15/2006 by DCFusion]

Originally posted by DCFusion
One of my greatest concerns with this, in addition to those mentioned in previous posts, is that a teacher with a weapon could very well be 'ambushed' by students in order to get the weapon. I think we have all heard a story or two (maybe more) where a teacher was attacked. Now imagine if they had a gun and were overtaken by several students. The possible result is chilling, to say the least.

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 12/15/2006 by DCFusion]

I don't know about that. To me one of the reasons that teachers are an easy target is that it IS known that they are unarmed. My wife is a High School teacher. When we were dating I took her to the gun range and taught her how to shoot. Several of her students were at a pistol competition she shot in last Summer. Word got around fast that she could shoot and had a pistol (birthday gift from me) and a carry permit. The punks that used to hang around her car, making lewd remarks, now find that there is some place else they need to be when she comes out after school.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
To me one of the reasons that teachers are an easy target is that it IS known that they are unarmed.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Here in Washington D.C., we just got done having a 'crime emergency'. Why were there so many crimes? In my opinion, it is because it is illegal to have a gun in D.C. The criminals know this, so they take their illegally obtained weapons and commit crimes, knowing that the law abiding citizen won't have a weapon.

So yes, I do agree that a weapon can be a great deterrent. However, in a school environment, I would still be worried that a teacher may be assaulted in order to obtain the weapon. I think another part too is that a teacher may be less than willing to use the weapon - there would be a lot of innocent children around.

I think it is a concept whose time has come. Armed teachers don't have to be a lethal entity by no means. There are many types of less-than-lethal ammunition, as well as other methods besides firearms.

The number one goal here is to neutralize a horrendous act as soon as possible. Teachers are the first line of defense when time is critical and action is crucial. I support the idea wholeheartedly.

The consensus seems to be the question would teachers use a weapon even if they had one at hand? My feeling is that they probably would not even carry a weapon. Add a heavy weapon to all the papers, books, etc that teachers carry and I doubt many will bite the bait and carry one. I have tried and tried and I just cannot see myself carrying a gun into my classroom. Half the time I forget where I put my glasses or my cell phone on my desk. Just what I need to leave laying around is an "Eastwood Special". Granted I have worked with some wacky kids but they are still just kids and when I get them to talk with me they sometimes become allies. Hope to hear others opinions on this issue. All those I got were great and insightful thanks for sharing everyone.
Jubal 55

As a teacher myself, I have to say that this is a really bad idea.

There are about 55 million students enrolled in public schools in the US, from pre-Kindergarten through 12th grade. The total number of deaths resulting from school shootings in the US during the 2004-2005 school year (the last year for which complete data is available) was 24; the number of total deaths was 39, including suicides, murder/suicides, etc. That means that the odds of anyone dying in a school shooting are 208,333 to 1; the odds of dying at school at all are 128,205 to 1. In my book that qualifies as a minor risk.

Before anyone accuses me of being anti-gun, let me just say that I own guns. I enjoy using them for hunting and I like the peace of mind they give me when I know that I can defend my home and my family. But teachers don't need guns. Many teachers don't like guns, and those that do would, by and large, have a very difficult time shooting anyone at all, let alone a student. I know I would - although if push came to shove, I would probably do it.

More than that, what happens the first time a teacher goes berserk and shoots a student with no provocation at all? Believe me, if we give teachers guns it WILL happen. And what happens when a student takes the gun from a teacher, either by overpowering that teacher or by picking up a gun left lying around by an irresponsible teacher? Because if we allow this that will happen someday, too.

Teachers don't need guns. Period.

I went to public schools in LA with gang problems. There was a kid shot outside my junior high and a few shootings that occurred at my high school. Every shooting occurred after school and outside the classroom. Not only are you opening a pandora's box by allowing teachers to carry guns, but teacher's having guns will do little good as most of the gun violence occurs outside of class on parts of campus where there is little supervision.

If we really want to do something about school violence, we need to reach these kids when they are very young. Today's first grader that is allowed to act up because his teacher cannot or will not properly discipline him is tomorrows gang member.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
If we really want to do something about school violence, we need to reach these kids when they are very young. Today's first grader that is allowed to act up because his teacher cannot or will not properly discipline him is tomorrows gang member.

That is very true. And it might also help to stop the bullying and victimazation of some students. You can only push people so far until they retaliate on the bully and sometimes on innocents. As a realist, I realize that this is never going to happen in any school system. We as a nation glorify violence and to expect students to act differently just because they are in school is nieve.

The solution to the school violence problem is to have much smaller classes so that teachers can teach and show their students that someone cares about them. This will never happen either I'm afraid. Teachers in most school systems are just glorified babysitters. Maybe they should be armed, but arming a frustrated, overworked, underpaid employee might bring on more trouble than the Colo. Senator bargined for.


It's a brave new world.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by whaaa]

Today's first grader that is allowed to act up because his teacher cannot or will not properly discipline him is tomorrows gang member.

I am going to assume that you realize what's wrong with this statement, and I'm going to retrieve the point out of it, that you are making.

A teacher's job is not to discipline. It's YOUR job, if your the parent. The first grader that acts up, whom doesn't settle down when ASKED, gets REMOVED. I say this as a guideline really, I understand in the REAL world, that some minor, status quo disciplining is happening, and is necessary. What I'm trying to say, is that, if a teacher shouts temporarily, or pounds on the desk, or makes a student sit in the front of the room, and it works, then great. Immediately removing the student is rediculous. That's what I mean by REAL world.

But to say that teachers that don't discipline students, as a requirment of their position, begets gang members, is just plain silly.

Teacher
–noun
a person who teaches or instructs, esp. as a profession; instructor.

Disciplinarian
–noun
1. a person who enforces or advocates discipline

Well if we are going allow the teachers to be packing, what about the students who say get good grades? Or the custodial staff.

If you are saying that the nations public schools are so unsafe that the teachers of our children need to carry a gun to feel safe and or keep order then we as a society are doomed.

It seems obvious to me that this would be a bandaid (more like a sound bite issue for the senator) than an actual reasoned examination of the problem at hand.

We should change "no Child left behing" to no "magnum left behind"

You are right in that parents need to accept much of the responsibility of disciplining children, but discipline is just as much part of the teaching profession as grading papers, especially in the early part of education. If teachers and principals are not going to enforce discipline in the schools, who is?

Also, a lot of misfits have kids, and if the teacher does not instill some sort of discipline in the child, nobody will. Having the state instill values in your child is the price you pay for being a misfit.

The question is not whether or not it is a teacher's job to discipline a student (it most certainly is part of their job!), but whether or not that teacher will be backed up by a student's parents.

In my family, when I was growing up, the teacher's word was law. If my teacher called home to my parents for a disciplinary problem I had, in my parents' eyes, done exactly what the teacher said I did. Period, end of discussion, no questions asked. The teacher's word was law. And that was only about 10 years ago!

Today, I cannot tell you how many times I have had parents tell me some variation of "My little Johnny wouldn't do anything like that!" when I inform them about a disciplinary problem. I want to say Well, actually, little Johnny DID do that - I watched him do it! Parents and teachers need to work together to address serious discipline issues in school; if one part doesn't do their part, the result is a messed-up kid.

Teachers can only instill so much discipline in students - the only tools we really have at our disposal for discipline-related problems are in-school/out-of-school suspensions, detention, and the like. Serious discipline problems are always reported to the parents, and it is up to them to take further action on their child's discipline problem.

Well, the problem I have with this idea is, what if one day, the teacher "loses it", and goes "postal", turning the weapon upon the students.

Guns + kids = bad idea, no matter who has the gun.

Nuff said.

edit = clarity

[edit on 12/19/2006 by Mechanic 32]

Originally posted by Mechanic 32
Well, the problem I have with this idea is, what if one day, the teacher "loses it", and goes "postal", turning the weapon upon the students.

Guns + kids = bad idea, no matter who has the gun.

Nuff said.

And yet you let them teach your children.???? Do you understand?

There is no telling what your kids are hearing/ learning form their teachers.

Isn't erroneous information as dangerous and a fired bullet?

Roper