Lonely Universe

mybe in this part of galaxy we are alone, for other reasons...
however we have to consider extra dimensional creatures further extra terrestrial life form

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by observe50
I just think it is amazing that the Unides States Government has to say, 'There are Aliens and what you call UFO's" before you will totally believe it.

Before they actually believe it?

It was said by the Presidential Press Secretary, and the President of the United States of America well over 50 years ago, and even with that disclosure people still do not believe. So, no. Even if the top world leaders say "there are aliens", peoples' opinions still do not permit them to acknowledge or recognize the truth, because it is not the truth they seek.

Exactly. Most people don't want it to be true. It doesn't fit there personal view on "reality".

[edit on 12-12-2006 by InSaneTK]

Originally posted by Robert S

They have been searching the skies for a long time with no results. Why is that? Do the true believers ever question that? Ever wonder how many people who have to be disinformants to pull up the biggest cover up ever?

The WOW Signal

You can look this signal up elsewhere but hey - you're a Wiki fan so we'll go with that.

Its the most famous of the "unknowns".

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Robert S

They have been searching the skies for a long time with no results. Why is that? Do the true believers ever question that? Ever wonder how many people who have to be disinformants to pull up the biggest cover up ever?

The WOW Signal

You can look this signal up elsewhere but hey - you're a Wiki fan so we'll go with that.

Its the most famous of the "unknowns".

I heard this signal was being jammed shortly after it was detected by some one on Earth. Probaly trying to cover up the truth?

Looking back in history, the world seemed such big place and some of the distaces seemed too far to cover. the europeans doubted the possibility of finding land and people on the other side of the atlantic. If you take the earth as a tiny example of the universe. Then it is possible in time that distances can be overcomed with time and will be made shorter with technology. The problem is lack of interest in interstellar travel by world leaders. if there was financial gain interstellar travel, there will be more interest and then question of the lonely universe will be solved.

statistically, i'm quite sure we're not the only intelligent life in the universe.

Originally posted by stingray
statistically, i'm quite sure we're not the only intelligent life in the universe.

We are not alone... I don't understand how anyone can think that there is only earth and thats it. The rest is just endless of lightyears with waste. It is arrogant to believe it's only life on earth.

Originally posted by InSaneTK

Originally posted by stingray
statistically, i'm quite sure we're not the only intelligent life in the universe.

We are not alone... I don't understand how anyone can think that there is only earth and thats it. The rest is just endless of lightyears with waste. It is arrogant to believe it's only life on earth.

exactly -- there are trillions upon trillions of stars and planets in the universe. to assume earth is unique in harboring life would be extremely arrogant indeed.

Dr. Wolf

he seems very unsure and hesitant about what he's talking about for someone that has worked for majestic 12 and in "s-4"

Originally posted by InSaneTK
It is arrogant to believe it's only life on earth.

I dissagree somewhat. i don't believe it is "arrogant", but rather "selfishness" which is merely the product their cellular instinct of: "Self Pre-Serve", aka "self preserve" that does not permit them to recognize or acknowledge the precept that life exists elsewhere, as that information does not serve their best interests. Therefore they have seemingly no other viable option available that is compatible with the truth of their "opinion" (which is seeded with selfishness) other than to constantly and relentlessly rebuke the notion that intelligent life existed prior to earth's recorded history. It just doesn't serve their best interests, so like three monkeys i know, they become "hear no, see no, and speak no".

I fail to understand why people believe we are alone in the universe. Just take a look at the universe and its size.
If you could understand only a small part of its size then you would never claim we are alone.

I have heard countless of people saying that Earth is the only place were intelligent beings exist. And how do they know that? The answer is, "they don't have a single clue".
It's just made up from absumptions and own opinins of what they believe is possible and impossible.

During the Middle-Age one of the most hightech creations was the catapult.
Perhaps the average people believed the catapult to be the most advanced creation of all time and that humanity had reached their limit of what they can create.
Same for today. Many people think we are in the last stage of technology. And for a reason they really believe what they believe and they are totally closed to anything that could threaten their vision of how things are.
Those people deny everything which don't fit into their own world and their arguments are hopelessly weak...

Originally posted by thesun
The problem is lack of interest in interstellar travel by world leaders. if there was financial gain interstellar travel, there will be more interest and then question of the lonely universe will be solved.

There is far more financial interest in keeping the propulsion technology secret because of the oil/economical infrastructure presently on earth. Not just financial interests but geo-political power structures in place.

Read about Steven Greer, he says it best.

greers disclosure website

Most of the theories out there are based on humans understanding of life. They are earth centric in nature, and show to be desperate measures to explain and understand everything. It comes natural for us humans to be this way. The thing here is to realize that science is brought up by humans who are confined on this piece of rock we call earth.

There is no real answer to these questions because we are trapped in this globe. To say that there is no intelligent life anywhere in the universe without concrete investigation, is ludicrous. We have not even sent a man to mars and we are already screaming that there is not life anywhere in the universe. That has to be the biggest joke on mankind yet.

The universe MUST have some form of life. Earth is part of the universe, and whatever helped life get to be the way it is here, must exist out in that dark vast universe. Life in my view, is everywhere, we just think that it has to be exactly like here on earth, and it is probably not, and that’s the problem.

Life is everywhere?
Where exactly is everywhere?

Originally posted by Ram
Life is everywhere?
Where exactly is everywhere?

I don't know because I am stuck on this rock too.
I know it must be out there somehwere but the thing would be to get off our asses and find it. Thing is, I don't have a spaceship to do that.

Fair enough

So the alternative to have a spaceship
- and go figure it out ourselves is?

Besides not having a spaceship...
Hmm - Would be cool to have a "family spaceship".

hehe.

Well, Robert, are we sitting alone on the third rock from the sun? Is there anyone out there?

Ok, at the expense of repeating myself and to make it easier for you to decide on the odds, I’ll quote from some earlier threads of mine. I don’t know which ‘Scientists’ you refer to who have speculated that intelligent life elsewhere is extremely rare and unlikely and may not even exist.

But read what follows, and then decide…

The Universe is so huge in fact that we’ll have to play around with scales so one can get a better idea.

According to the standard inflationary model of cosmology, the visible portion of our universe, the one mapped by our telescopes is an infinitesimally small speck in a much larger universe of at least 10 to the power 35 light-years across!

Admittedly this number is really, really big, and almost impossible to imagine. So lets shrink everything down, WAY down, just so we can get a better grasp of it. Let's imagine that the entire universe that we have seen in all the worlds telescopes, all the galaxies, all trillion of them, extending out 13 billion light years in every direction is shrunk down to the size of a golf ball.

If we do a volume calculation, the actual universe contains 10 to the power 60 of those golf balls! Wow, I guess we didn't shrink things down far enough, but this will have to do. So how big a volume would 10 to the power 60 golf balls fill up? Try a sphere 850 light years across! So imagine a mass of golf balls that big, and each one of those golf balls contains all the stars and galaxies that we can see through our telescopes!!

Now let’s try it with speed. Ready? Imagine traveling so fast that you can go from on end of the galaxy to the other in just one second. At this speed the entire galaxy would be in reach before you can say the word "go", and wham, you're there. At this speed, you could travel to the nearest galaxy Andromeda in 22 seconds flat. And you could cross from one end of the visible universe to the other in 72 hours!

So, lets speed up our warp vehicles again, so that we can travel a quintillion light years every second. At such a speed we could cross the known universe, 100 million times in one second.

Now, how long would it take to cross the universe at that speed? It would take 3.7 billion years to cross from one side of the actual universe to the other!!

So now, can you even begin to comprehend the size of the actual universe?? BIG, isn’t it?
Ok, now let’s go to step 2.

For arguments sake, lets imagine that primitive life happens once in the lifetime of a trillion galaxies, and out of those only one in a trillion ever evolves out of its womb planet into a space-faring civilization. In this example then we are still left with an astounding 10 to the par 75 advanced societies – more alien cultures than the number of atoms composing planet Earth! Again, for some perspective on such a gargantuan number, there are more advanced civilizations partying it up around the galaxies than there are atoms in every single grain of sand on all the beaches and deserts in the world, and then some!!

Now what do your ‘scientists’ gotta say to that??


More..here

Source courtesy:futurehi.net

Hey mikesingh,

Although your abstract on how to visualise relational size of the universe is a cool way to visualise perspectives, in reality the universe as we see it, may not be quite as big as we once thought.

Recent studies of the background microwave radiation have found that there are not large scale variations in the temperature.





When analysing the WMAP we split it up into cells and averaged out the radiation temp. What we were expecting to see was some clue as to the shape of the universe in so much as one side being either hotter or colder than the other.

What we actually saw was a totally uniform temperature....

This is a rather puzzling result as current models would have produced a very different looking result. Mostly due to quantum fluctuations that occurred in the universe within planck time.

What this all points to is the realisation that the universe maybe a multi-dimensional Moebius strip.



If you want to learn more about the Moebius Strip Go here

The Maths of Moebius

In other words if you were to get in a space ship with an infinite amount of fuel, you could fly forwards and eventually come back to where you started.

If it were possible to see past the great dark barrier we currently cannot get past at 13 billion light years away we would actually see the back of our own heads!!

We are currently attempting to look at the overall curvature of space, to attempt to determin the shape of the universe whether it be an open, closed or flat.



At any rate, studies lead to further questions.

All the best

NeoN HaZe.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by Neon Haze]

That mebius model of the universe is very interesting. Just out of curiosity what are its implications with regard to the actual size of the universe.

How does this model compare to the traditional in terms of size.
Does it have any bearing on the issue of the statistical probability of intelligent life.

Also in your last post to me, you said you thought intelligent life was common in the universe. What is your reason for thinking so?

Originally posted by Robert S
That Moebius model of the universe is very interesting. Just out of curiosity what are its implications with regard to the actual size of the universe.

Well for one thing it means that the actual physical space of the universe is finite. Meaning a definitive number could describe the entire universe.

If the universe were infinite, then no number could describe it's size or in fact it's shape.

How does this model compare to the traditional in terms of size.
Does it have any bearing on the issue of the statistical probability of intelligent life..

The current consensus on the universe is a big bang followed by either a big rip or crunch.

In terms of size it means that although the surface area of space maybe increasing, the actual physical size is finite.

In other words if you were to flatten out space then it would be a great deal larger than it currently is, and the expansion of the universe is the movement towards equilibrium, a state of balance or flatness.

When relating this to the statistical probability of life in a finite Universe, the total number of physical locations life could exist is set to a specific value.

This is important when calculating the statistical probability of life in the universe because if you introduce an infinite to the equation, your answer is always positive.

Side note: - one of the reasons some of my colleagues in the field like to use infinities is it gives them an excuse to stop working and go to the pub

Also in your last post to me, you said you thought intelligent life was common in the universe. What is your reason for thinking so?

Even given that the universe is finite, there are around 400 billion stars in our own galaxy, and we are part of a cluster of galaxies. We know that the universe is not so small as to be smaller than our own cluster or would see the reflection of our own galaxy.

Sol - our sun is just one of those 400 billion stars, It is unthinkable to most scientist that life is unique to this star and this planet.

It's a case of reduction, which is what the Drake Equation is all about.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.