For everyone "claiming their grandfather is a 33 degree mason"

Originally posted by MrNECROS

I'd estimate there to be only a dozen or so at any one time in any country except the USA where there are probably double that amount.

Try again.

To begin with, each Supreme Council has 33 members, each of which is a 33� Mason. Therefore, in each Jurisdiction, there are at the very least 33 members who have the 33�.

Secondly, Deputies of the Supreme Council must also be 33� Masons. A Deputy is the representative of the Supreme Council in a sub-jurisdiction (called an Orient) where there is no Sovereign Grand Inspector General (an S.G.I.G. is a member of a Supreme Council). This occurs, for example, in the Southern Jurisdiction USA: since the Supreme Council only has 33 members, only 33 states have SGIG's. Therefore, the remaining states and territories have a Deputy of the 33�.

Thus far we have approximately 45 members in the Southern Jurisdiction who are 33� Masons, each of which form a part of the Rites' government. Photos of these Brothers, along with short biographies, are published in the biannual Transactions of the Supreme Council.

Next come all the "other" 33� Masons; these are the Brothers who have been made Honorary Members of the Supreme Council, and have received the 33� as an honorariam.

I would approximate that there are eight thousand 33� Masons in the Southern Jurisdiction, but even this figure may be conservative. Large batches of 33� Masons are made every two years.

Every two years, the SGIG or Deputy of an Orient will turn in a list of members in his Orient who he believes should be honored by receiving the 33�. The number of Candidates for the 33� from each Orient is dependent on the number of members in the Orient, as well as how many new 32� Masons were made in he past 2 years.

According to Article IV Section 9 of the Statutes of the Supreme Council, the SGIG or Deputy may nominate 6 Brothers for the 33� for every 2500 32� members that were on the roll as of the preceding Dec. 31. In addition to this, the SGIG or Deputy may nominate 1 Brother for the 33� for every 200 new members that joined the Rite in the past two years. The nominations then go to the Supreme Council for a vote. The Supreme Council meets biannually.

Therefore, basically, the number of 33� Brothers depends upon how many members there are in a certain state, similar to the Electoral College. Every two years, an average of 6 members of my Temple become 33�; we currently have about 25 members in my Lodge who are 33�.

Fiat Lvx.







[edit on 31-8-2004 by Masonic Light]

My grandfather, James Wesely Dunn, was a 33rd degree Scottish Rite in the San Bernardino Valley, as well as a member of York Rite, Shrine, Grotto, Veiled Prophets and active in his lodge...

I have not been a mason long enough to even be considered for it, nor have I taken the Scottish Rite of York rite degrees... YET.

Hmmm... Ok, I had more time to read this post and see there are some other brothers and companions here.

As to 32'nds not knowing if they actually are...at least in the USA, northern jurisdiction, which I'm a member of, it is very clear what "degree" you are. I recieved a very nice certificate from my valley after recieving the 32nd degree.

Actually, I've taken part in exemplifying several of the S.R. degrees in my valley, including the 4th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 21st, 23rd, and 32nd. The largest roles I've had were Senior Warden parts in the allegorical section of the 17th and 18th degrees, though I had quite a large part in the 12th as well.

For the un-initiated among you, the scottish rite degrees are presented theatrically, in a series of .."plays" if you will, each as an allegory to teach the lessons of masonry. Some are quite beautiful, others can be a little boring.

Originally posted by Artifex

As to 32'nds not knowing if they actually are...at least in the USA, northern jurisdiction, which I'm a member of, it is very clear what "degree" you are. I recieved a very nice certificate from my valley after recieving the 32nd degree.

Same thing in the Southern Jurisdiction. Also, down here, we wear our circular degree caps to all meetings. 32� members wear black caps with gold edging that feature the Double Headed Eagle; Knights Commander of the Court of Honour wear red caps with gold edging that feature a KCCH Cross; and 33� members wear white caps with gold edging that feature the Patriarchal Cross.
Photos of these caps can be seen here:

www.aasrvalleyofjax.org...

Fiat Lvx.

I think we're going to see the usual guff from here on in - according to most literature I've read the 33rd Degree confers with it full access to the Supreme Council, I doubt there are literally thousands of people who can wield this sort of power, it would be the equilent of having a govenment cabinet of the same numbers, it would be completely unworkable.

Hmm the 33 members thing seems plausible, still we are not talking thousands here and the concept of having members who have retired from active service still holding their degree or being bestowed an honarary degree (normally reserved for 33rd Degree Masons from foreign Lodges) is validated by McClenechan, so the 45 odd seems like it may be correct.

3,000+ though I doubt.

Please note I am obviously reffering to other people not knowing your degree, not you not knowing your own degree.

"Please note I am obviously reffering to other people not knowing your degree, not you not knowing your own degree. "

Well, I think that masonic rings, bumper stickers and other modes of recognition kind of lay that to rest.

Everyone knows who the 33rds are at a reunion by the white hat, or on the outside by the 33rd ring. In northern jurisdiction, there is no 32nd hat unfortunately, only gold for heads of S.R. bodies, Red for MSA, Purple for S.R. Deputies, blue for Tylers/stage crew.

In Northern Jurisdiction, the 32nd degree is conferred at a reunion where new candidates (3rd degree masons) recieve a number of degrees (at mine for example, I recieved the 4th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 18th, 21st, and 32nd.) So it's like a 2-day event. My valley's fall reunion this year is 3 days (2 1/2 actually) but they're conferring an unusually high number of degrees.

I don't know any masons who are secretive about the fact that they are 32nds or 33rds,l KYCH's or anything else. We're all kind of proud of our masonic achievements I think.

You know, in 3 years I have been looking I have only seen one old guy wearing a Freemason tie.
As for bumper stickers and "Kiss me I a Freemason" T-Shirts, I dared one of my mates to wear one into the pub and he got the filthiest looks from all the Masons in there.
After that incident he was a lot more accepting of what I'd told him about them, but wasn't really that keen to go back to his local for quite some time.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
I think we're going to see the usual guff from here on in - according to most literature I've read the 33rd Degree confers with it full access to the Supreme Council, I doubt there are literally thousands of people who can wield this sort of power, it would be the equilent of having a govenment cabinet of the same numbers, it would be completely unworkable.

There are two classes of 33� Masons: Actives and Honoraries. Active 33� Masons are voting members of the Supreme Council; all other 33� Masons are honorary members of the Supreme Council, and it is this class of 33� Masons that number in the thousands.
This class of 33� Masons may attend all meetings of the Supreme Council, and they have a voice in its deliberations; however, only active members may vote.

Hmm the 33 members thing seems plausible, still we are not talking thousands here and the concept of having members who have retired from active service still holding their degree or being bestowed an honarary degree (normally reserved for 33rd Degree Masons from foreign Lodges) is validated by McClenechan, so the 45 odd seems like it may be correct.

The vast majority of 33� Masons are never active; when a Sovereign Grand Inspector General dies or retires, an honorary member of the Supreme Council is elected to replace him, and thus becomes active. Most states in the Southern Jurisdiction have one SGIG and 400 - 800 other 33� members who are honorary members of the Supreme Council.

Perhaps it should be mentioned that this is different than it was in McLenachan's time. Originally, the 33� was limited only to active members of the Supreme Council. In the 1870's, Albert Pike changed this in the Southern Jurisdiction to allow the 33� to be conferred honorarily; the Northern Jurisdiction and England, both of which McLenachan belonged to, did not follow suit until years later.

3,000+ though I doubt.

The names of all new 33� members are published in the Supreme Council's biannual Transactions. To confirm the number, all one has to do is order a copy from the Supreme Council's website or Barnes and Noble. Your problem is, like someone else mentioned, is that you have no documentation to support your beliefs, and apparently are completely unaware of the vast literature on the subject; you just assume that you already "know" things, which leads you into error.

Please note I am obviously reffering to other people not knowing your degree, not you not knowing your own degree.

And as I mentioned, everyone knows what each other's degree is by the cap they wear. All new members are giving black 32� caps; all KCCH's are given red caps; all 33� brothers get white caps. Providing one is not color blind, it's fairly simple to figure out who has the various degrees.

[edit on 1-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

Masonic Light,

Once again, excellent and accurate post It's a shame that ol' Necros can't hang out around a Scottish Rite building when the degrees are being conferred and see all the Scottish Rite Masons, MANY with black 32nd Degree caps, quite a few with Red Knight Commander of the Court of Honour (KCCH) caps and quite a lot with white 33rd Degree caps. ...and this happens at EVERY Scottish Rite building in the country when the degrees are being conferred and on a smaller scale at the monthly or bi-monthly meetings. Yep. There are a LOT of 33rd Degree Masons in the U.S.A. I have a friend at the Supreme Council whom I'll e-mail tonight and see if I can get a number for the Southern Jurisdiction.

In the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction there is no K.C.C.H. but they do have a Meritorious Service Award and those members wear red caps as well. Heck, I'll write to their supreme council and see if I can get a number too then we'll have a close estimation of how many 33rd Degree Masons there are in the U.S.A.

When I received the KCCH in 2001 in Charleston SC there were several hundred of us there to receive it and and about that many there to receive the 33rd Degree, which was conferred after the KCCH. Country singer Roy Clark was there to receive the 33rd Degree (better quit listening to country music Necros...it's obviously evil!!!)

Jeez.

What is it with people, I tell them my mom is a 33 degree, and they call me a liar.

Originally posted by MacKiller
Jeez.

What is it with people, I tell them my mom is a 33 degree, and they call me a liar.

She *could* be . . . if she belonged to LaDroit Humain or the Feminine Grand Lodge of France or another such group that accepts women.

Yep. There ARE women freemasons.

www.masonicinfo.com...

They aren't recognized as legitimate by male Freemasons, but they practice the same rituals and confer the same degrees. Some even call each other "Brother" ...others say "Sister" I have a friend in France (a 33rd Degree Mason....shudder...) who's wife is the Master of her Masonic Lodge.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Masonic Lite what is it with your dyslexic interpretions of dates and times?
Once again you quote the usual "This was changed later by Pike" and site a date (1870) prior to the publishing of the oft mentioned "The Book of The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite (1884)."

And you get the usual round of applause for an excellent post - do all Freemasons have trouble telling time?
Mickey's little hand is pointing to his...

I'll ignore all the other guff about the Freemasons having publically accessible records - they have refused to do this, even in breach of several new government legislations here in the UK ... and have got away with it.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Masonic Lite what is it with your dyslexic interpretions of dates and times?
Once again you quote the usual "This was changed later by Pike" and site a date (1870) prior to the publishing of the oft mentioned "The Book of The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite (1884)."

And once again you are caught in a bald-faced lie. As anyone reading my post can see, I said that the Pike administration changed the policy on the conferring of the 33� in the Southern Jurisdiction in the 1870's. This has nothing to do with your book, or with McLenachan, who was not even a member of the Scottish Rite, S.J.

I also said that the Northern Jurisdiction and England, which McLenachan was a member of, changed their regulations concerning the 33� long after McLenachan wrote the book you are fixated on.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

Oh hang on I get it - the Northern Jurisdiction totally threw out all their rituals, procedures, morality etc... (even though on page 8 of the book McClenechan congratulates Pike on bringing the the two Councils closer together) sometime after 1884 because....

Thanx for the bit about 33 members on the council though, this actually sheds a bit of light on the whole numbers thing.

I've got pretty much everything that I'm going to get out of this thread, not going to argue any more, its just the usual Masonic disinformation loop from here on in.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Oh hang on I get it

I think that practically everyone on this forum, both Masons and non-Masons, agree at least on one thing:

You don't get it. If you did, it would be unnecessary for everyone to have to repeat themselves to you a hundred times.





[edit on 2-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

cripes people, 32nd degree is the highes it doesnt go higher.

Originally posted by MrNECROS

I've got pretty much everything that I'm going to get out of this thread, not going to argue any more, its just the usual Masonic disinformation loop from here on in.

I guess you might see it that way, since you have made up your mind and don't want to be confused by trivial little things like FACTS... it might seem like a loop when all of us tell you the same thing, being, as it were, the TRUTH... but you go right on ahead in your little confused world where masons try to force men who hate them into joining...

Originally posted by phantompatriot
cripes people, 32nd degree is the highes it doesnt go higher.

Four thumbs down, a "Siskel and Ebert" moment times two? Since the 32nd Degree is the "highes", and I'm a 32nd Degree SRSJ Mason, I think I'll exercise a little command authority... "Fox Maidens" for everyone... That will make me popular with the "troops".

Please provide some form of documentation other than what can be found as a "Prize" in a box of cereal (Froot Loops, it had to be Froot Loops) to support your revelation of the "oblivious".

Uh . . . . isn't there a 33rd degree, that is conferred, not obtained ??
lol.

Fox Maidens. Thanks Mirthful !

[edit on 2-9-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by phantompatriot
cripes people, 32nd degree is the highes it doesnt go higher.

Hmmm. Interesting, then I wonder why the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite is governed by the Supreme Council, 33rd Degree? ..and I wonder why the officers all have 33rd Degree behind their names & titles...and I wonder why every other year the local Scottish Rite's confer the 33rd Degree upon certain people who've been elected by the Supreme Council 33rd Degree to receive it.

My that's strange isn't it?

By the way, where did you get YOUR information? In case you need some help, though...here are a few links to clear your cloudy mind...

www.srmason-sj.org...

www.supremecouncil.org...

scottishritemasons-can.org...

Oh, and here's some of the caps, rings and regalia of the Scottish Rite, including the Thirty-THIRD Degree.

www.bakersfieldscottishrite.org...