All muslims should be tattooed and wear armbands

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by thematrix
People like the US President you mean?

Like the liberal jacks here trying to take a piss at what the US is doing.

He spends more time invading countries he has admitted having NOTHING to do with 9/11, he has said Osama Bin Laden is not a priority, doesn't matter and he doesn't care about him.

Do you sleep with the president? how the hell do you know that he doesnt care about him ?? how do you know he is not a priority? He has never said that the US has stopped lookihg for Osama or the Al-qauda.

Not that is has any thing to do with this thread and it has been shown here at ATS before but here is a refresher.

Bush says OBL not top priority. Want another? Here you go.
And just to make things clear here are the quotes of Bush on OBL

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

Now as for the "liberal jacks" "trying to take a piss at what the US is doing". Refresh me on that being done here? This is about ppl in a free nation wanting other citizens in said free nation to be marked and their rights removed. If any one is trying to "take a pisss at what the US is doing" it is these type of cowards who fear their own shadows because their government and media has led them to believe that all muslims are out to kill them.
Thats like saying all blacks are gang bangers and all whites are skin heads or that every one in that neighborhood does drugs is a hooker or is out to kill a cop.

Where is it any ones right here or any where else to remove the rights of another becaue they are different? Where is it ok to go back to the ways of Hitler with tattooing and armbanding a certain group? Where is it ok to take a certain group to camps for "our" safty? What makes it ok to say I don't want a muslim living next to me?

So now it's liberal to not want to impose facist rules apoun a group? Get over this liberal, fundi, conservitive, left, right, dem, rep garbage. The US is not some coin that should be ruled over by any one side. The US was founded on differences and has always been considered the melting pot. There are no sides onlysome trying to rip this nation apart by making the ignorant fight amongst each other over petty squables of left vs. right. Those same ppl are on the same side and it's not the side of the average real American. The only side they know is greed and coruption evil and death.
The US is a land of the free our constitution was writen by the blood of our forefathers to make a great country for the ppl by the ppl and of the ppl.
Stop being a loyalist and be a patriot. Fight only for the needs of your country and not the wants of some politicians of bankers.

Raist

[edit on 2/12/06 by Raist]

[edit on 2/12/06 by Raist]

Before I write anything. This guy really pissed me off with his stupidity. So here comes some stupidity and sarcasm to counter his.

Originally posted by IAF101
Do you sleep with the president? how the hell do you know that he doesnt care about him ?? how do you know he is not a priority? He has never said that the US has stopped lookihg for Osama or the Al-qauda.

Proof enough to show that you have no knowledge watsoever of any world events. You are just here to spew hatred and make stupid arguments which every sensible person knows is not true.

Go watch the last 5 years of news before you make dumb comments like these. Seriosuly. Get your facts straight before you try to argue on sensitive points.

Originally posted by IAF101
There are many terrorists, Osama and the Al-Qaeda are the ones that most concern us then there are the crazies in Kashmir fighting for their path of glacier ice and the checyan school bombers association etc.

Holy ish. Do you have any idea of why ppl are fighting in Kashmir? Do you ever wonder that if it was infact your government who lied to all of you and carried out 9/11. Lot of things point to it. You should be more worried about that. Your liberties are slowly being stripped off one by one and you are concerned some arab muslim guy 1000s of miles away after your president admitted he doesnt care about him.
I cannot believe some of you are not able to see how the government is slowly controlling you and spreading their puppet government all over the world.

Originally posted by IAF101
yes they do! They can enlist in the US army( they dont have it in them to make itin the marines!) and go over to Iraq and Afganistan and bust some Terrorists. But how many of them do ? Because they are all terrorists anyway!

They dont have it in them to make marines??? Do you even know arabs. These are the guys keeping ur fascist army at large in Iraq. These are average guys who are fighting for freedom which ur army is useless against. Compare average american and avergae arab and the arab has much bigger b*lls. These guys do not run or hide in time of war, they fight. And American army is unable to defeat them on ground face to face. Infact, the only reason american army survives is because of its weapons. Just fire a missile from a safe distance and blow up the entire neighbourhood. When it comes to face to face, they cant handle it. A big mighty army against insurgents in Iraq and ur official have admitted repeatedly that they cannot win in Iraq.

Originally posted by IAF101]
What do you mean let him go? Have you seen him manning a check post and letting Osama go ?? They troops on the ground are given the task of finding and caputuring him dead or alive, they havent been able to do that. But after the US presence there they havent been able to get another Bin laden tape out have they???
In all probability he's dead and buried beneath tonnes of rubble!

They never wanted him. He had nothing to do with 9/11. They need to put puppet government in Iraq because of the oil and strategic army locations. Osama is not their concern. Infact, Osama is probably in league with them. After all, bush and bin laden friendship goes back a long way. For all we know, osama has shaved his beard and is wearing a business suit and chillin with Bush in the white house.

Originally posted by IAF101
they have always been world leader in producing heroine and it was the US that brought an end to this practise. But now after giving them their freedom being the savages they are they have resorted to doing it all over again. That is one of the reasons more civilians need to die there, so the local economy can support all the people, right now there are too many!

Someone already gave the ACTUAL answer to that since you seem to have gotten it all wrong.

Originally posted by IAF101
Not at its best, you have already beaten me at it!
Moslems are here because they know that their country sucks in the middle east and they are ashamed to be moslems and rightfully so.

I would gladly *snip* you or put a *snip* for that statement. You are lucky I am not a terrorist or a murderer. Very lucky indeed.

Originally posted by IAF101
I would be ashamed too if I were moslem. But shame isnt enough, they need to send their kids and their grandkids to fight for the West in the middle east and kill terrorists there.

How about they send them to Iraq to fight the US army which has illegally occupied lands.

Originally posted by IAF101
Almost all the people there are potential terrorists and man, woman or child they can do their part in it.

Again, a statement which would make me gladly do what I described earlier. Planet earth will be a much better place without ppl like you roaming arnd. Ppl like you bring down the collective IQ of the human race.

Originally posted by IAF101
The only nation apart form Afganistan is Iraq and Iraq had Saddam hussein. We killed his kids and broke his homes and are going to hang him this spring! He was terrorising his people and we took him ot but being the savages they are they dont realize and understand civilization.

Ya and I would definitely vote you to go thr and civilize those savages.

Originally posted by IAF101
They are destined to suffer with violence, hate and penury for the rest of their lives. That is the price that democracy demands to kick out the sickness that is Islam and its perverted versions. The iraqis need to pay that price because freedom is never cheap!

Wow, u need to get laid or something. Do you just close your eyes and bang the keys on the keyboard to spew the crap that u do?? It has to be the case, coz I cant believe that an actual human can write such things knowingly and willingly unless you were not human but an ape.

Originally posted by IAF101
Where did you escape from ??

See now that is the kind of question you should be asking yourself while looking in the mirror. You might actually be able to understand ur purpose in life coz at the moment you seem pretty useless to me.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by half_minded]

[edit on 4-12-2006 by half_minded]


Mod EDIT: to remove threat

[edit on 4-12-2006 by kinglizard]

IAF101: I just want to say that you should realise you have been brainwashed. You're views are just plain wrong. You're in total denial of the reality, but it's a normal pattern of the brain, it's a psychological defense. Fight it. Wake up. Stop being ignorant. Knowing the truth and revising your own ideas is much more harder than Stay The Course. Or you're a troll.

Anyway good luck into waking up to the real world and stopping stupid generalisation based on a little extremist group and what the medias tells you.

You also have to realise that people thinking like you let happenned the Holocaust because they denied the facts about Hitler, or they were blinded by their hate against an engineered enemy.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by Vitchilo]

Oh God, not this guy.

By now the rest of you will have seen the extent of the bile this guy spews. And of course, it's founded in ignorance. Now I've got him on ignore but I can still see when other people quote him... so I had a peep. One shouldn't feed trolls, but this statement from IAF101 struck me as both spectacularly lame and easy to refute:

they have always been world leader in producing heroine and it was the US that brought an end to this practise

Here's a really interesting article from Al-Jazeera (which, trust me, IAF will dismiss - but the rest of you could read it and judge for yourselves whether it makes sense) which goes into the structure of the drug trade.

In their last year in power, the Taliban actually did something about opium production, reducing it by something of the order of 90% in one year. Granted, the Taliban probably had to do some pretty unpleasant things to achieve that, but they did it nonetheless. Even this article in the Washington Times acknowledges as much, but they claim that the Taliban were financing al-Qaeda (without adducing any actual evidence, of course).

See, the al-Jazeera article makes sense to me, because it says that most of the markup in the heroin market comes after the drugs leave the country. And where does this money go? Into banks that are prepared to launder it. From the al-Jazeera article:

The UN said that this year’s contribution of the drug trade to the Afghan economy is of the order of 2.7 billion, but avoided mentioning the stunning fact that over 95 percent of the revenues generated by this lucrative contraband accrues to business syndicates, organized crime and banking and financial institutions. A very small percentage accrues to farmers and traders in the producing country, according to Global Research website.

Based on wholesale and retail prices in Western markets, the earnings generated by the Afghan drug trade are colossal. In July 2006, street prices in Britain for heroin were of the order of Pound Sterling 54, or $102 a gram.”

"Afghan heroin sells on the international narcotics market for 100 times the price farmers get for their opium right out of the field".(US State Department quoted by the Voice of America (VOA), 27 February 2004).

According to the structure of British retail prices for heroin, the total proceeds of the Afghan heroin trade would be of the order of 124.4 billion dollars, assuming a 50 percent purity ratio. Assuming an average purity ratio of 36 percent and the average British price, the cash value of Afghan heroin sales would be of the order of 194.4 billion dollars.

The al-Jazeera article is also prepared to mention the obvious connection between the CIA and the drugs trade, which no Western news outlet will do. But the signs are there to be seen if you know where to look. For example, in this BBC news item we find that

While the US report praised US-backed Afghan president Hamid Karzai for the measures he has introduced to cut heroin production, the UN report said his two executive orders had no practical impact.

We would expect a stooge of the US government to make some noise but actually do nothing about the problem. And Karzai is a stooge - he used to work for UNOCAL - the United Oil Company of California - funny how he should wind up President, isn't it? You'd think they'd vote for a local rather than one of the occupiers, long story. And:

The Pentagon and the State Department are reportedly split over how heroin production should be tackled in the country. While the Pentagon insists that the military operations in Afghanistan should be limited to fighting terrorists, the State Department thinks armed forces should tackle opium production.

Those of us of a cynical, indeed well-informed mind, will realise that some of the armed forces are tackling opium production... but not quite in the way the article implies. It's also interesting that the Pentagon wants to steer clear of the problem. There is a more orthodox explanation, of course: they want to concentrate on fighting the Taliban, and they don't want to upset the locals any more than they are already by occupying the country and fighting a guerrilla war. However, on previous form (Vietnam, Thailand, Colombia, Iran-Contra, you name it) they're after a piece of some very lucrative action to augment their budget (they already lost what, $2 trillion dollars or something?)

It's also important to remember that the USG is not a monolithic entity. Some parts embrace and profit from the drugs trade: some parts get their budget from trying to wipe it out. I think the "war on drugs" is supposedly still going, but the focus of the war the US is fighting has shifted to something even more abstract and elusive than a country or a noun like "drugs".

/The US report also praised Pakistan for "excellent" co-operation with US anti-drugs efforts.

Pakistan is one of the leaders in the global drug trade. In fact, they must be getting quite jealous of Afghanistan right now. But I'm sure they're doing a great job in co-operating with the US.

We will never allow any bashing of any cultures, people or countries here on ATS.

ATS is so wide and diverse that there are members from every part of the world. It's great to have a heated discussion, or even a conflict. But when anyone resorts to offending others, the beat stops there. Someone reading WILL be offended. That is guaranteed. So it will stop right now.

Btw... When Europe was in the dark ages, the best science came out of Muslim kindoms & empires. They invented the letters of the alphabet as we know them. Lots of the stars in the sky still have arabian names. Because they were the best astronomers on the planet in that time.

Originally posted by IAF101I am not ranting or spewing hate

Stop lying, and stop being racist.

Some years ago I went to Auschwitz with my class and we had a guide who had been held there by the nazis. While there are still some uncertainty as to exactly what was going on in these camps and who was doing what, there is little doubt that they killed millions of jews there.

Now I remember on one of the walls were a sign saying "History on the shelf is always repeating itself", and this springs to mind when I hear these people say they want to start branding muslims and sending them to camps. I have several muslim friends and they are very nize people.

We mustn't let this fear-mongering cloud our judgement and allow these kind of bloodshed to happen again!!!

Now correct me if I am wrong, but Muslims believe that the "End Times" will culminate in a world spanning war against the "Infidels"? I mean isn't that what they believe? Isn't it what their religious texts say will happen?

I am in no way deluded about how my country has undermined our freedoms and seek to control the ME to their ends... But if you have an entire region that believes that you are the "Great White Devil" and that they must eventually destroy you, couldn't our actions be considered preemptive?

I am open-minded, but this is what I've been taught to believe, please feel free to enlighten me if in fact their ultimate goal is to have a peacefully coexisting society.

Originally posted by MasterJedi
Now correct me if I am wrong, but Muslims believe that the "End Times" will culminate in a world spanning war against the "Infidels"? I mean isn't that what they believe? Isn't it what their religious texts say will happen?

I am in no way deluded about how my country has undermined our freedoms and seek to control the ME to their ends... But if you have an entire region that believes that you are the "Great White Devil" and that they must eventually destroy you, couldn't our actions be considered preemptive?

I am open-minded, but this is what I've been taught to believe, please feel free to enlighten me if in fact their ultimate goal is to have a peacefully coexisting society.

Well Bush believes the same...a lot of fundamentalist christians who think we live in the end time and that it's their destiny to bring about the apocalypse are actually controlling the US - and have been for many years - so this argument really doesn't hold water...

I don't see how this invalidates my questions. Even if the war shouldn't be going on, and I'm willing to conceed that, doesn't their beliefs say that they must crush us?

I don't see how this invalidates my questions. Even if the war shouldn't be going on, and I'm willing to conceed that, doesn't their beliefs say that they must crush us?

No. Only a handful of extremists, the others just only get angry because the army bombed them, killed their families, destroyed their lives. You know, extremism out of desperation is a normal reaction... but extremism because you're a nut... well it's plain extremism and there's only a few in the M-E.

I'm not asking if the normal Muslim is a terrorist, I am asking about their religious beliefs, and whether or not they believe that ultimately they must fight the infidels and whether or not they actually crave peaceful coexistence?

Do they not believe in conversion by the sword? What does this mean for peaceful coexistence?

[edit on 4-12-2006 by MasterJedi]

Dude, people outside of US, including in middle east are after all Human. No one wants to die. Everyone wants to have a happy life, raise a family and live peacefully. As Vitchilo said, if some people are gonna be bombing their streets then it will definitely bring out the extremists in them.

The world leaders, including the islamic ones are nothing but money hungry wolves who try to keep people divided equally for their own benefits. Look into histiry, hundreds of examples. Look at the recent history, Bush and Co. has so many connections to Osama, Saddam, Saudi, etc. We really need to open our eyes and see that we are being played from both sides.

Normal people like us just wanna live peacefully with everyone else. Even in the middle east its the same story. Average muslim guy on the street is pissed off with America and their own government for the crap that goes on these days.

Look at the recent news. It says Iraqis worse off than under Saddam. That title itself explains a lot.

We should be coming up with ideas to fix the corrupt world leaders and get rid of them rather than arguing among ourselves. We should do something to actually make a difference rather than loggin on this website everyday endlessly just to let off steam while our government plays us.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by half_minded]

Originally posted by MasterJedi
I'm not asking if the normal Muslim is a terrorist, I am asking about their religious beliefs, and whether or not they believe that ultimately they must fight the infidels and whether or not they actually crave peaceful coexistence?

Do they not believe in conversion by the sword? What does this mean for peaceful coexistence?

[edit on 4-12-2006 by MasterJedi]

You are asking if extremist muslims believe in fighting the infidels and in conversion by the sword??? Isn't that a rather redundant question? If they didn't then they wouldn't keep fighting now would they? But they are not fighting non-muslims just for the heck of it, in fact they are killing themselves and other muslims just as well as christians, jews and whatever might be in their way. Much in the same way that american "smart" bombs kill innocent women and children of all religions all over the world. Collateral damage or whatever...

But NO, muslims in general don't believe in conversion by the sword, or indeed violence at all. If you read the Bible it also says you should make all the people of the world into christians. That's the last thing Jesus tells the disiples. But I don't believe it says you should kill them if they don't convert. That is a later interpretation at best

So...Muslims aren't the obstacle to peace here, the "War of Terror" as Borat calls it is the problem. They are being bombed, killed, raped and tortured by their so called liberators, so frankly I can't say I blame them for not trusting us or being pissed off at us...

I am not asking about extremists or even referring to Christians at all... But whatever I see that no matter what, the Muslims are the victims in the worlds eyes. Nevermind that they have through out recent history continually struck at us, we are wrong for meddling in their affairs. But I will say this, whenever their religious leaders finally decide to declare Jihad I hope your defending them saves you from their sword of righteousness.

I'm probably done with this thread, because bashing America seems to be accepted and welcomed, but even the slightest jab at the Muslims and I'm considered ignorant and blind.

So much for asking questions, because if you read my first post I didn't make any judgements and merely asked a couple of questions about their beliefs...Heaven forbid I make a point in asking about what EVERY Muslim is taught, not just the extremists views...

MasterJedi: I don't see much bashing America honnestly.

Mostly its bashing the US Goverment which imho in no way represents its people, not in ideology and not in interests.
The other part is bashing people like the ones who make statements like "All Muslims should be tattoed and wear armbands" which are luckely a small minority who are lucky that they can still use banner of free speech to spit out this hatefilled bullocks.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
We will never allow any bashing of any cultures, people or countries here on ATS.





Except George Bush

Originally posted by MasterJedi
I am not asking about extremists or even referring to Christians at all... But whatever I see that no matter what, the Muslims are the victims in the worlds eyes. Nevermind that they have through out recent history continually struck at us, we are wrong for meddling in their affairs. But I will say this, whenever their religious leaders finally decide to declare Jihad I hope your defending them saves you from their sword of righteousness.

I'm probably done with this thread, because bashing America seems to be accepted and welcomed, but even the slightest jab at the Muslims and I'm considered ignorant and blind.

So much for asking questions, because if you read my first post I didn't make any judgements and merely asked a couple of questions about their beliefs...Heaven forbid I make a point in asking about what EVERY Muslim is taught, not just the extremists views...

No, Moslems don't believe in conversion by the sword, not the vast majority. It's only a very small faction of fundies, but well the Christian fundies here in America are pretty much the same. There is so much negative propaganda spread about the Moslems that it's sickening.

First, JIHAD is not a "holy war". This was very carefully explained to me by a wonderful, devout Moslem several years ago, prior to 911. He told me that this word for Moslems actually refers to an individual's personal, individual spiritual struggle, nothing more. It has been perverted by the West and the term was hijacked after 911 and distorted.

Secondly, maybe there's a reason why thinking people see the Muslims as victims. Like, hey, maybe they really are victims! Duh, we invade their country for no good reason at all, tear apart their lives, their country and stomp all over their traditions, rape their women and children and then you wonder why so many see them as victims?

Third, we have been meddling in the affairs of the M.E. ever since WWI. Actually before that, but I won't go into the Crusades here. The West went in and redrew the map so that Iraq was made one country, which it wasn't before. This happened in an area where family/tribal affliations are the fabric of their life but tribal affiliations were in no way respected by the West. Quite simply, we came in their and told them where their boundaries were going to be, with no thought or knowledge of their culture/traditions. We're like that old movie "The Man Who Came To Dinner" where the guy comes for dinner but ends up staying forever, all the while complaining that things weren't up to his standards.

The truth is that the M.E. is sick and tired of the West meddling in their affairs and rightfully so.

I didn't see ANY America bashing going on. I heard people express their dislike for our current govt, but that's it and that is most definitely not the same as bashing our country or our Constitution. I don't think you understand the difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Originally posted by rdang
Except George Bush

Nope... Except the international bankers.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Except George Bush

With people the moderators most likely mean groups of people or other members discussing on ATS.

And Bush isn't bashed, hes critisized, which is my, your and everyone elses duty.

Critique and review of decisions and actions by public figures like Bush is a fundamental part of democracy.

Not being able to or not being allowed to critisize people like Bush would make him a dictator by definition.

[edit on 4/12/06 by thematrix]