Creationism and Evolution both are guesses in the dark

This is not really my cup of tea.( Rocket Science) I really no have no idea one way or another. But only questions and observations. Like why are there still apes, why do we not pick leader like the animal kingdom, you know the strongest and the fittest through brute force. Why did Darwin title his original works The Evolution of Species (not man or life) where do morals come from,Why do all animals live by instinct but we choose to live by law. Like I said I don't have any agenda. Anyone from either side that could help me answer these questions would be greatly appreciated. Still on the fence

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by Jugg

 

Evolution is NOT a fact.Here is a question for you, the philosophical question of evolution is, what does it prove? Does it in any way prove that God did not create the universe, earth and man upon it?

Evolution doesn't need to prove that god did not create the universe.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that "he" did in the first place . . .

The creation itself is evidence of the Creator.

Don't bother giving me the chicken and egg response, it's a foolish response to an obvious answer.

The creation encompasses everything that we can visualise and experience, including time itself.

Originally posted by Bullcookies
This is not really my cup of tea.( Rocket Science) I really no have no idea one way or another. But only questions and observations. Like why are there still apes, why do we not pick leader like the animal kingdom, you know the strongest and the fittest through brute force. Why did Darwin title his original works The Evolution of Species (not man or life) where do morals come from,Why do all animals live by instinct but we choose to live by law. Like I said I don't have any agenda. Anyone from either side that could help me answer these questions would be greatly appreciated. Still on the fence

All animals have memory in their DNA.

It's what enables birds to build nests (even though they were never taught)
spiders to build webs
termites to build gigantic mounds
it's how animals instinctively know what to do in situations.
etc etc

Responses to situations and even skills are hardwired into us and every living thing on this planet.

It's been postulated that "morals" are hardwired into use as well.

In theory, we are essentially hardwired to cooperate within a communal society because sapiens are most efficient in groups and are naturally social.

Not killing a fellow group member is beneficial to you in most circumstances.

Therefore it has been hardwired into your DNA to not kill your family, not kill your neighbors, not kill your fellow statesmen, not kill your fellow countrymen, and not kill your fellow man in general.

Originally posted by XplanetX
The creation itself is evidence of the Creator.

Don't bother giving me the chicken and egg response, it's a foolish response to an obvious answer.

The creation encompasses everything that we can visualise and experience, including time itself.

Who said the universe was "created"???

What if the universe simply IS?

You assume too much.

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by XplanetX
The creation itself is evidence of the Creator.

Don't bother giving me the chicken and egg response, it's a foolish response to an obvious answer.

The creation encompasses everything that we can visualise and experience, including time itself.

Who said the universe was "created"???

What if the universe simply IS?

You assume too much.

Are you suggesting that time always existed?

reply to post by JPhish


I didn't say that God did create the universe, I asked if evolution proves he didn't? It's just a question, why are you so sensitive?

reply to post by JPhish


So are you saying the universe didn't have to come from something, from anything?

Actually there is a lot of evidence to support Evolution, we have seen with turtles how one species of turtle that becomes seperated will develop along different evolutionary lines to esentially create two species. We know changes happen over time that is a fact, Evolution is the broad theory to encompass why those changes happen. Yes the theory itself is not provable but there are many observable facts behind that theory.

Regarding creationism, that is actually ever bit as plausible and does not have to be exclusive of evolution. Throughout time there have been many observations pointing to a creator and life after death, even if they may be less solid as provable fact. Many people have near death experiences (with God, Jesus, angels dead family members and so on) and some where people actually explain what was happening when they were technically dead, peopla have recieved warnings from dead loved ones in dreams or communications that turned out to be true, there have been miracles that have happened that could point to a higher power watching out for us and so on. When you put all evidence out there together the idea of a higher power is a sound theory itself. There may not be as many actual observable facts behind it which is why it requires a leap of faith.

Both are very plausible and neither can be proven wrong, there may be more scientific proof of evolutionism but that doesn't neccesarily mean that theory is more valid. There are still so many things in our world that are far beyond the understanding of science. While science should eventually lead us to most answers it is not the end all be all to provide answers now. Just because something is not explainable with science right now does not mean it is not possible.

reply to post by seeker1977


Thank you. Well stated. I agree with you.

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by XplanetX
The creation itself is evidence of the Creator.

Don't bother giving me the chicken and egg response, it's a foolish response to an obvious answer.

The creation encompasses everything that we can visualise and experience, including time itself.

Who said the universe was "created"???

What if the universe simply IS?

You assume too much.

Are you suggesting that time always existed?

time could be an illusory aspect of our perception in this reality for all you know.

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by JPhish

 

I didn't say that God did create the universe, I asked if evolution proves he didn't? It's just a question, why are you so sensitive?

The current theory of evolution can not prove or disprove an unfounded belief based on faith.

I'm not being sensitive, i'm to the point.

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by JPhish

 

So are you saying the universe didn't have to come from something, from anything?

That's exactly what i'm saying.

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by XplanetX
The creation itself is evidence of the Creator.

Don't bother giving me the chicken and egg response, it's a foolish response to an obvious answer.

The creation encompasses everything that we can visualise and experience, including time itself.

Who said the universe was "created"???

What if the universe simply IS?

You assume too much.

Are you suggesting that time always existed?

time could be an illusory aspect of our perception in this reality for all you know.

This is the typical response concering the 'passage of time' and exactly what I would expect from somebody that refuses to accept the possibility of a Creator.

You will use the 'passage of time' to explain evolution and yet your philosophy of time being 'illusory' undermines your own theory of evolution.

The passage of time began when the Creator first created. You cannot go infinitely backwards in time and this is why you immediately resort to the phony idea that 'time is illusory'.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
You're kidding right?


We can use science to disprove evolution. Can't do that with creationism. Science proves intelligent design.

cool! Then, since we have an un-named "intelligence" can we go ahead and claim its the Islamic creation story and worship Allah? ...Why do I get the feeling that you would prefer Christianity? And yet, you can't use science to prove we should pick christianity over any other religion. Cool

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by JPhish

 

I didn't say that God did create the universe, I asked if evolution proves he didn't? It's just a question, why are you so sensitive?

no, evolution does not inherently discount the notion of an ultimate creator of the multiverse.
No, intelligent design does not in any way mean it had be the christian religion's God.

reply to post by sgreco

cool! Then, since we have an un-named "intelligence" can we go ahead and claim its the Islamic creation story and worship Allah? ...

The core idea behind intelligent design (with regards to lifes diversity), is that it took an external intelligence to create/design living organisms in all its diversity/complexity.

While the religious crowd may lean towards ID.... ID itself does NOT put a label on the designer such as "the God of the christians" or "the God of the muslims" etc.

reply to post by sgreco


Why does "religion" even have to come into the picture? One can believe in a "creator" and not be religious.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sgreco

 

cool! Then, since we have an un-named "intelligence" can we go ahead and claim its the Islamic creation story and worship Allah? ...

The core idea behind intelligent design (with regards to lifes diversity), is that it took an external intelligence to create/design living organisms in all its diversity/complexity.

While the religious crowd may lean towards ID.... ID itself does NOT put a label on the designer such as "the God of the christians" or "the God of the muslims" etc.

Of course the reason ID doesnt seem to care who the IDer is, is that creationists, having already (again) lost in court to get their theory taught, repackeged with ID.

There is even a court documented missing link:
pandasthumb.org...

Originally posted by jubal55
Evolution on the other hand has never had any facts either just conjectures and guesses. Scientific guess are still guesses not facts. Regardless of the government or book publishers fancy illustrations there is no truly scientific basis for either theory or guess of how the universe started.

The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of the universe.

You don't appear to know what you're arguing against.

reply to post by narwahl

Of course the reason ID doesnt seem to care who the IDer is, is that creationists, having already (again) lost in court to get their theory taught, repackeged with ID.

(Most) religious people subscribe to ID.
As much as atheists subscribe to the theory of evolution.

ID, as a concept, by itself.. has nothing to do with any religon.
To say otherwise, would be like saying the other theory, i.e evolution ... is 100% affiliated to the idea of atheism.