Eventual Revolution/Solution for Islam - Read this Article!

In light of all the discussions happening on this board, I bring to light an article from The New Yorker, published sept. 11, 2006 -- The Moderate Martyr by George Packer.

I insist that any enlightened and educated human of this planet read the article!

A man named Mamoud Muhammed Taha began, in the late 60's and 70's pushing for a reformation/revolution of the Islamic law, going back to Muhammed's original teachings.

There are two 'sets' of texts, so to speak, in the Qu'ran -- one of peace from when he was living in Mecca, and one of violence when he was fighting with Medina. Taha called for Muslims to go back to the peaceful version..

Taha said that the Sudanese constitution needed to be reformed, in order to reconcile “the individual’s need for absolute freedom with the community’s need for total social justice.” This political ideal, he argued, could be best achieved not through Marxism or liberalism but through Islam—that is, Islam in its original, uncorrupted form, in which women and people of other faiths were accorded equal status.

One day, Osman took a book by Taha off her father’s shelf, “The Koran, Mustapha Mahmoud, and Modern Understanding,” published in 1970. By the time she finished it, she was weeping. For the first time, she felt that religion had accorded her fully equal status. “Inside this thinking, I’m a human being,” she said. “Outside this thinking, I’m not.” It was as if she had been asleep all her life and had suddenly woken up: the air, the taste of water, food, even the smell of things changed. She felt as if she were walking a little off the ground.

In Taha’s most important book, a slender volume called “The Second Message of Islam” (published in 1967, with the dedication “To humanity!”), he writes that the lives of the “early Muslims” in Mecca “were the supreme expression of their religion and consisted of sincere worship, kindness, and peaceful coexistence with all other people.” Abdullahi an-Naim, who is now a law professor at Emory University, translated the book into English; in his introduction, he writes, “Islam, being the final and universal religion according to Muslim belief, was offered first in tolerant and egalitarian terms in Mecca, where the Prophet preached equality and individual responsibility between all men and women without distinction on grounds of race, sex, or social origin. As that message was rejected in practice, and the Prophet and his few followers were persecuted and forced to migrate to Medina, some aspects of the message changed.”

For all the problems that Islam is having within itself, nevermind with the rest of the world (and vice versa), this article brings hope. There were, and are, forces that are working towards change within the Islamic/Muslim communities!

Exactly... we cannot force Muslims to change, they have to change themselves.

The War on Terror is impossible to win by military force or by Western propaganda... the only way it can win is if there is an internal change like the Protestant Reformation in Christianity. Maybe there'd by a sort of reformation in Islam that would run against hatred, violence, unequal rights towards women, and the obsessive nature Islam plays on an individuals life.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Exactly... we cannot force Muslims to change, they have to change themselves.

I would love to see a peaceful change in islam. There are a few good muslims who want to see a peaceful evolution of islam. I just dont think a total change in islam is realistic within our lifetimes or before it starts world war 3.

most muslims are taught from a very young age to distrust and hate the west. Hasn't anyone seen the propaganda they feed their own children? Free thought and democracy in any meaningful amount are alien to most muslims living in the middle east.



[edit on 30-11-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Why is it that we allow organizations like godhatesfags.com , the KKK , christians advocating the murder of abortion doctors and other radical versions of christianity to exist? Just because one makes claims that "These people are not true christians" does not mean that they themselves do not believe it to be soor that in fact they aren't christians.

Maybe one day we will get around to cleaning up our own versions of radicals and then we can dictate to the Muslims what they should do with theirs. Till then look into your own backyards first before condemning your neighbor for being unclean.

Hrm...

This makes me wonder... What event or events curbed the Christian brutality? We all know that a hell of alot of blood was spilled by fundamentalist Christians through Witch hunts, Inquesitions, Crusades, and the like. However, the nature of the faith seemed to change around the late 1800s to early 1900s. Now, for the most part, Christianity is reasonably calm and hate-free (not totally, there's still some issues, but you know what I'm getting at).

Can anyone with a little more historic knowlage in this area help describe how Christianity went from Blood-soaked to benign? It could be very relevent to this discussion.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Why is it that we allow organizations like godhatesfags.com , the KKK , christians advocating the murder of abortion doctors and other radical versions of christianity to exist? Just because one makes claims that "These people are not true christians" does not mean that they themselves do not believe it to be soor that in fact they aren't christians.

Maybe one day we will get around to cleaning up our own versions of radicals and then we can dictate to the Muslims what they should do with theirs. Till then look into your own backyards first before condemning your neighbor for being unclean.

Ok pie man, here is the major flaw in your argument. We condemn our radicals and they arent causing enough problems to start ww3. Simply think of the ratios involved here pie.

The fact is that the koran teaches nothing but hatred. It excuses any actions which it's followers take in the name of "holy war".

There is no such thing as holy war in the christian bible.

think about this! Christians have missionaries. How many islamic missionaries have you seen?

Exactly! They dont need them!

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Hrm...

This makes me wonder... What event or events curbed the Christian brutality? We all know that a hell of alot of blood was spilled by fundamentalist Christians through Witch hunts, Inquesitions, Crusades, and the like. However, the nature of the faith seemed to change around the late 1800s to early 1900s. Now, for the most part, Christianity is reasonably calm and hate-free (not totally, there's still some issues, but you know what I'm getting at).

Can anyone with a little more historic knowlage in this area help describe how Christianity went from Blood-soaked to benign? It could be very relevent to this discussion.

It's been speculated that the protest reformation caused this within christianity. However, that took place in the 1500's.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Hrm...

This makes me wonder... What event or events curbed the Christian brutality? We all know that a hell of alot of blood was spilled by fundamentalist Christians through Witch hunts, Inquesitions, Crusades, and the like. However, the nature of the faith seemed to change around the late 1800s to early 1900s. Now, for the most part, Christianity is reasonably calm and hate-free (not totally, there's still some issues, but you know what I'm getting at).

Can anyone with a little more historic knowlage in this area help describe how Christianity went from Blood-soaked to benign? It could be very relevent to this discussion.

Not being a hisotrian, I can't say from a true historical point of
view, but I think that it was influenced by the industrial revolution
and the improvement in communications.

People started leaning towards more liberal viewpoints, after
getting tired of what conservative religion taught.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
The fact is that the koran teaches nothing but hatred. It excuses any actions which it's followers take in the name of "holy war".

'Tis not true.

As I said in the OP, half of the Qu'ran was written in peaceful times, and the other half during war times.

The part that's getting pushed by the media and popular sentiment is the violent part, because the radicals are holding it up on high.

There's a whole 'nother half that preaches peace, justice, equity and compassion. ...we just never hear about that part.

Originally posted by Diseria
'Tis not true.

As I said in the OP, half of the Qu'ran was written in peaceful times, and the other half during war times.

The part that's getting pushed by the media and popular sentiment is the violent part, because the radicals are holding it up on high.

There's a whole 'nother half that preaches peace, justice, equity and compassion. ...we just never hear about that part.

but we dont really see it in their actions either, do we?

[edit on 30-11-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by iori_komei
Not being a hisotrian, I can't say from a true historical point of
view, but I think that it was influenced by the industrial revolution
and the improvement in communications.

People started leaning towards more liberal viewpoints, after
getting tired of what conservative religion taught.

If that's the case, then it stands to reason that the best way to aid a peaceful Islamic revolution (towards peace) is to help bring up their standards of living. If we can aid them in developing comunications and lifestyle technologies without imposing our own little foilbles upon them, they should naturally gravitate towards a more peaceful culture and put the war book back on the shelf.

This fits with the fact that the more agression, interfearance, and alienation we show them, the more hostial and extream they become towards us.

If we could only get it together enough to help them yet still give them the freedom to develop their own culture (ie, not forcing consumerism or westerm democracy upon them) we could truly make the world a better place.

How's that for wishful thinking?

Great idea, i vote they dump this Violent Quran and dust off the peaceful one and stick to that!!

Nice work OP