Try to prove that it's REAL

Ok....there is a LOT of disinformation and hoaxes out there. I'll agree to that. but it's not ALL fake. Out of all the thousands of pictures and video clips we've seen, some of them MUST be genuine.

Aside from the easily spotted obvious fakes, why don't we try to prove some of this stuff as REAL instead of just jumping on the band wagon and saying that everything is fake? That's all I ever see on this site.

Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

Well, do you have anything to offer that you believe to be genuine? I mean we can scour the web, but like you said most of those have been either debunked or fallen into the category as natural phenomenon. Please refrain from insulting those you are asking to help you.

I personally have seen several films that seem authentic, but have not compiled them into anything presentable. Please link to anything you would like to be looked at and I'll gladly share my opinions on an individual basis.

Although I am not an expert in the field of photography or anything of the sort, I do look at evidence without preconceived notions as to its authenticity. I am as open-minded on the subject as they come.

Originally posted by MrChipps
Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

MrChipps, why don't you get the ball rolling by posting a a link and opinion to images that you can prove are real.

sanc

Originally posted by MrChipps


Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

That's the spirit, get mad and flame not only the people here but the website as well. Great intro, but then again it seems all you may be looking for is attention and not actionsince you have provided nothing for your own arguement, as far as evidence is concerned.

Hmm, I wonder why your ATS points are in the negative direction as well.?

Come on now, let's be productive and remember, "Deny Ignorance", is an ATS motto. We are supposed to be critical and not just believe everything we see and read. So, how about joining in on the building of something fun and exciting instead of tearing it down as you claim that everybody else on this site is doing so far!!??
Peace, Mondo

Originally posted by MrChipps
Out of all the thousands of pictures and video clips we've seen, some of them MUST be genuine.

No, not necessarily. Bizarre as it seems, all of them may in fact be cases of mistaken identity, poor filming techniques, developing errors, swamp gas, hoax, etc. Many of them may be genuine items; birds, tossed hubcaps, or other everyday items, but without some kind of indisputable artifact, I don't think anyone can say, "Without a doubt, that is a spacecraft not of this Earth."

That being said, a lot of them sure do look like they may be some kind of spacecraft not of this Earth.

That may be an extreme case of fence-sitting, but, in my opinion, any other position on the subject is a mistake. All of them may be nothing....or some of them may be something.

Originally posted by MrChipps
Ok....there is a LOT of disinformation and hoaxes out there. I'll agree to that. but it's not ALL fake. Out of all the thousands of pictures and video clips we've seen, some of them MUST be genuine.

Aside from the easily spotted obvious fakes, why don't we try to prove some of this stuff as REAL instead of just jumping on the band wagon and saying that everything is fake? That's all I ever see on this site.

Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

do you have some way that we can distinguish between fake or real? i doubt it. even if i present you with full lenght 90 minutes movie of an alien giving a speech about the human race can you say if its real or not?! with todays animation technology it is literally pointless to even discuss this.

for somthing to be real and to be 100% validated and genuine, in my opinion, it HAVE to be all over the media LIVE!. thats my view of this.

and there are many people that believe anything that they are told. is it better being skeptic or gullible? im open minded but i prefer being a skeptic in many cases.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I still haven’t found anyone who proved that the Betty Hill Star Map was not real?

Why can’t debunkers give this one a go for a while? As far as I know, it is yet to be debunked. If no one can prove that it’s not real, then maybe it’s real.


[edit on 28/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by MrChipps
Ok....there is a LOT of disinformation and hoaxes out there. I'll agree to that. but it's not ALL fake. Out of all the thousands of pictures and video clips we've seen, some of them MUST be genuine.

Aside from the easily spotted obvious fakes, why don't we try to prove some of this stuff as REAL instead of just jumping on the band wagon and saying that everything is fake? That's all I ever see on this site.

Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

Your avatar is suppose to be a genuine alien

Originally posted by MrChipps
Ok....there is a LOT of disinformation and hoaxes out there. I'll agree to that. but it's not ALL fake.

Can you be more specific on what was not fake?

Aside from the easily spotted obvious fakes, why don't we try to prove some of this stuff as REAL instead of just jumping on the band wagon and saying that everything is fake?

Part of verification process is to eliminate obvious signs of hoax or fraud. If someone is saying it is fake, without proof or argument, then why worry what they think?

Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

I would retract that statement, as it is based in the same misguided logic you used in your original statement. If you want people on ATS to consider the possibility a photo or film is real, why would you then insist that they are close minded and pathetic?

Can you point us to a genuine article of proof? I consider myself open minded and would love an opportunity for someone so judgemental to offer up proof.

Well, as has been said, you should'nt insult people like that,
especially when you're asking them for help..


If we went around trying to prove things were real, we'd end
up seeing what we wanted, and would end up with a bad
reputation, however that's not to say simply trying to disprove
something is any better.

We should look at these things with a neutral view, find all the
possible natural and/or terrestrial explanations, and check
to see if they apply, and if they don't than we should look
into it as more of a mystery.


Honestly I don't think there's any picture of an alien that is
real, and I personally consider 95% of UFO pictures/movies
to be hoaxes and misinterpretation of something more down
to Earth.

I see your points, well said, all except the last line. Few I feel would coplose to agreeing with it.
Yes, there may be hoaxes -- lot's of' local fun. Yet there's a lot of solid - do you do your EBE homework first - type members too,
You have knowledge of EBEs and that's cool but stand tight to other memers points of view. I see you may have edited your first reply, ie:
.. "Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head."


Dallas

[edit on 28-11-2006 by Dallas]

MrChipps,
You have not yet replied to any of the questions from us? Maybe you are usy but I am anxiously awaiting the real proof that you have come down on us for being critical about?!
Enough now of the, "right back at ya", attitude from me......just want to see what info you are able to contribute to solve this enigma???

See you on the forum, Peace......................Mondo

By the way, Merry Christmas to all at ATS!!!!!

[edit on 28-11-2006 by Mondogiwa]

I actually thought this was going to be an interesting thread until I read this:

Most of you people on here are so pathetic and closed minded that you wouldn't recognize something genuine if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

I would like to respond to questions that have been raised in this thread but considering MrChipps has made it quite clear that only people who don't question the validity of things posted on an anonymous board should reply...well I think I'll take my oh so cruel and critical self to another thread.

For the record I do like the betty and barney hill story my problem with the star map is that it's two dimensional with no clear references...now my opinion on wether it's fake or not I have to say...oops almost repsonded but forget no skeptics allowed.

Spiderj

Oh and merry christmas and happy holidays back mondo.

The aliens in my avatar are real.


besides, what is real... we may never really know.

Mr Chipp please respond, I'd like to see the pics that you're talking about.

Because, MrChipps, by positively proving photos/sightings/enigmas as fake we can eliminate them from possible further consideration and can then concentrate on the next potential case. It is the only way to get to the truth.

Any student of logical inquiry understands that by eliminating the negatives we may, ultimately be left with a positive. We have no other choice. Until the proverbial landing on the White House lawn, our only course of action is to analyze and collectively conclude that, yes, yet again, the item in question is either a hoax, a misinterpreted known object, or some other determinant variable. It's a form of deductive reasoning. It's what reasonable inquisitors do.

This process does not make us pathetic and closed minded, MrChipps. On the contrary it maintains our viability and open-mindedness.

My advice would be to educate yourself a little bit more than you've made painfully obvious to this point. Learn about the investigative methodology and progressive inquisition that all anomalous phenomenon must be subjected to. Seek out others that have pursued the same thing you are after but have exercised cautious optimism and academic query to yield the affirmation they are searching for.

Your proposal, incidentally, is fallacious in another, very transparent way: If an item is presented as already "genuine", then what is there to prove? If I slap you in the face with a cream pie, do you need some kind of additional evidence besides the taste, smell, and sugary confection running down your face that the pie is “genuine”? Of course not – the pie is quite genuine to you and you need no further proof.

Consequently, by going through a process of elimination, e.g., with a UFO photo, we can gradually reduce the breadth or depths of unknown quantities as we try to reach a point where there can be no uncertainty about the result. So far, I admit, that has not happened with most if not all UFO evidence (at least not for us lay folk – the “govt.” may be another matter).

One final suggestion: It is usually far more effective to get people to do what you want by treating them with kindness - especially if you don’t know them personally, and particularly in your initial encounters. Remember, first impressions are the strongest and last the longest…

Good luck and keep looking up!

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Sorry to bring this up again, but I still haven’t found anyone who proved that the Betty Hill Star Map was not real?

Why can’t debunkers give this one a go for a while? As far as I know, it is yet to be debunked. If no one can prove that it’s not real, then maybe it’s real.


[edit on 28/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Carl Sagan for one debunked it 25 years ago in his Television show Cosmos.
And then there is this, which I found using Google www.jamesoberg.com...

"This evidence, however, is tainted because of several other interpretations possible for Betty Hill's dots and lines. Embracing the Hill depiction as proof also depends upon a questionable re-interpretation of the original testimony, especially that all the circles -- including the two large ones with vertical lines-- were stars. The way Hill originally sketched them, these looked like planets! This problem is often covered up in later ufological accounts by blackening in all the circles, conveniently obscuring the damning lines on Hill's original sketch.

In the final analysis, the Betty Hill star map, while suggestive, remains ambiguous."

Maybe my choice of words was a little harsh. I'm sorry. I know I won't gain anything by arguing, so I'm not going to continue it. I just had to get what I said off my chest. Period. Sometimes you gotta vent.

All I'm saying is I'm tired of the whole damn cover-up and frustrated to no end that nobody can do anything to prove it. All the disinformation that the government and military has put into circulation, as well as some bits of truth, has woven such a web of uncertainty that nobody wants to believe anything is real. Which makes perfect sense to the government because that's the way they want it. When you ARE finally presented with something that's real, you will refuse to believe it because of the past. For all we know, they could be deliberately leaking information to the public for an eventual disclosure, but because of the past 60 years of lies, cover-ups, ridicule and disinformation.....it's gonna slip right under our noses without anybody thinking twice that the greatest discovery of our time was just presented to us.

That was worded a bit better, but contained the EXACT same meaning as my original statement. Again....I'm sorry.

RWPBR good work.

Would you mind reposting your info in this thread, so that people who are more knowledgeable than I (ie. Gazrok and cie.) can respond.

I'll give the link a read later today, I remember James Oberg as STS-48's main debunker. And have read Sagan's previous attempt at debunking the Star Map.

RWPBR, I finally got around to reading that link you pointed to. I read the whole article and the only thing he says about the map is the paragraph you quoted.

His argument is totally ridiculous. See for yourself, the stars are rarely blacked out. And Hill’s original sketch is shown on the same link. It's obvious the 2 bigger circles are different.

I don’t see any conspiracy by Urologists to “blacken circles”.

Mr. Olberg has fail to convince me, I doubt he convinced anyone.

Carl Sagan has already been discussed here.

He also has failed to convinced anyone.

Proof?




[edit on 12/12/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

I believe this is a genuine picture of an alien UFO:

brumac.8k.com...