Saudi Eurofighters under threat?

Wasn't there a Red Flag exercise between the F-22 and the typhoons recently?
in October 06 or something?

No. The exercises conducted from October 10th through the 20th (Red Falg 07-1) did not feature the F-22. The next Red Flag, which is scheduled for January through February of 2007, is expected to feature the F-22 Raptor

[edit on 16-12-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by stumason
Firstly, the UK is one of the top 3 weapons manufacturers in the UK.

Makes no sense.

You know full well what I meant. Don't be so fascecious. It was early in the morning as I was doing a long night shift.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by stumason
You do know that BAe are also one the US largest contractors too? The F-22 is heavily reliant on BAe systems, you know.

Largest foreign, yes. However "heavily reliant"? Lets not exaggerate there Stu, yes BAE does make some subsystems, this is true.

Ok, fly it without those sub-systems and see how far you get

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by stumason
And as far as your last comment goes, in skirmishes between Typhoons and F-22's so far, the Typhoon perfoms exceptionally well.

That's just flat out wrong. The F-22 and Typhoon have never even flown in the same airspace at the same time let alone "skirmish" with each other. It is nothing more than hearsay and fantasy, it has NEVER happened. All that you just said above is based on a fictional event.

Really? That's contrary to what I have heard. The BBC reported on it the other day in an article about the Typhoon. Plus, my Uncle is a Wing Commander at JCHQ and he seems to think differently to you too. But, lets not quibble.

Originally posted by stumason
Really? That's contrary to what I have heard. The BBC reported on it the other day in an article about the Typhoon. Plus, my Uncle is a Wing Commander at JCHQ and he seems to think differently to you too. But, lets not quibble.

Don't mean to but it's just that an F-22 pilot and Squadron Commander was asked specifically if the Raptor and Tiffy had ever exercised against or with each other, he said no. The Raptor has not yet flown with foreign aircraft. Until the BBC, or whomever, can quote and present credible sources it's nothing but hearsay as far as I'm concerned.

Fair enough I know the score

We have enough wierd and wonderful, but unsubstantiated rumours here, it's best not to rely on such things.

I'll see if I can turn up something credible. Until then, let's err on the side of caution and assume it didn't happen. Seems fair enough as I can't "prove" what I have been told

[edit on 18/12/06 by stumason]

the tyhpoon has flown against teh raptor - there is a picture on this forum to prove it - the picture is of a parked typhoon with a raptor taxing in teh background.

at the time there was a big deabte over the rumour `mil` that the pirate could actually track raptor at a useful range but ofc certain ppl `poo pood ` this.

And there's a MKI meeting possibly scheduled for mid next year..

Originally posted by Harlequin
the tyhpoon has flown against teh raptor - there is a picture on this forum to prove it - the picture is of a parked typhoon with a raptor taxing in teh background.

at the time there was a big deabte over the rumour `mil` that the pirate could actually track raptor at a useful range but ofc certain ppl `poo pood ` this.

I thought they didnt actually fight but flew on different days
i could be wrong

Originally posted by Jezza
I thought they didnt actually fight but flew on different days
i could be wrong

You're, correct. The picture in question was confirmed as authentic by the pilot I mentioned earlier but he again stressed that they did not, nor had ever, flown against each other. They flew at different times, I don't know where people are getting these rumors from...

and yet other confirmed pilots say they did fly against each other and both sides were surpirsed at each others capabilities

[edit on 19/12/06 by Harlequin]

Please, if you could, get the names of these pilots and their positions. I don't want to say they're lying but I get the feeling it's one of those "I heard from so and so..." etc.

My info is all based on what Lt. Colonel Michael "Dozer" Shower said. He was the F-22 demo pilot for several years. Recently he left to take up command of the 90th Fighter Squadron (Alaska) which will convert to the F-22 Raptor in 2007-2008.

Flight Lieutenant Dan Robinson - the first RAF pilot to be flight qualified on the F-22.

Yes the RAF have aircrew who are trained and qualified on the type.


or didn`t you know that the both aircraft were flown by respective aircrews?

He is now serving with 1st fighter wing (Langley) until he returns back to his own squadron which is 25 squadron (Conigsby)



and what have i been told? they flew against each other for disimilar training , focusing on EW work , but of course pilots being the breed they are went further - the typhoon bested the F-22 *most* of the time , but this could be attributed to HOBS , which atm the raptor lacks - of course this is in the WVR arena


in the bvr the reverse was the same - the F-22 did the job it was supposed to , again beating the typhoon *most* of the time .


SO it comes down to this - anyone can go chat to the aircrew at coningsby and they will swear blind they flew against the F-22 , and `dozer` will swear blnd it never happened.

[edit on 19/12/06 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Harlequin
...or didn't you know that the both aircraft were flown by respective aircrews?

Yes I know, there's an USAF pilot flying the Typhoon in return.

Originally posted by Harlequin
SO it comes down to this - anyone can go chat to the aircrew at coningsby and they will swear blind they flew against the F-22 , and `dozer` will swear blnd it never happened.

Personally I have a hard time believing they trained against each other so soon, in the absence of further evidence I am inclined to keep my view as no doubt you are to keep yours...

Legal Challenge to Decision to Drop BAE Corruption Inquiry



Last night The Corner House and Campaign Against Arms Trade (CAAT) began a legal challenge to the decision to drop the investigation into bribery allegations involving BAE Systems Plc in Saudi Arabia.

Lawyers, Leigh Day & Co, acting on behalf of the two organisations, issued letters to the Director of the Serious Fraud Office, the Attorney-General and the Prime Minister laying out their intention to judicially review the decision.

The basis for the legal challenge by the two NGOs is that:

- The decision was based on considerations of potential damage to relations with Saudi Arabia. This is expressly forbidden under the OECD’s Anti-Bribery Convention (Article 5);

- The Prime Minister, in his advice on the public interest to the Attorney General and the Serious Fraud Office, improperly took into account considerations of damage to diplomatic relations;

- The advice given by the Prime Minister amounted to a direction to discontinue the investigation, which is an unlawful interference with the independence of prosecutors under domestic and international law.


link

this may change things a little

Having worked for a defence contractor and sold to defence contractors in the UK, so some commissions were paid. As if this is the first deal that commissions have been paid on!!!!

This is an extention of UK, and by defination US foreign policy.

This sale will ensure many 1000's of jobs in the UK, Europe and the US. I suppose it was a matter of pride that the order is signed with the UK and not another European country

Saudi Arabia confirm order of 72 Eurofighters from UK.

What you folks don't understand (or do and think you can 'live with it') is that the Saudi Royal Family is in it to their ears with terrorism.

According to _Shadow Wars_ the acting regent was briefed on the 9/11 attacks a week before they happened. And did nothing.

The Saudi interior security minister 'knows how to contact UBL' to provide continuing bag money for keeping his wrecking crew out of The Kingdom.

And did nothing, even in the aftermath.

Three Saudi Prince/Princesses DIED within a fortnight of the attack, all of 'automobile crashes' (yes, I know they drive like fools but one died /on the way to the funeral of another/) so that they could not be 'requested for a chat' by U.S. intelligence for having FUNDED terrorism thru Dubai accounts.

A slush fund is just that. Not simply rich mens play money but _untraceable cash_ which not only will never be taxed but will also never be questioned for who, how and where it is spent.

Further, to understand the political/religious situation in The Kingdom is to realize that the House Of Saud are like a gazelle riding on the backs of a river full of submerged crocs. So long as they do what they are told, the water won't turn red. But the AIM of that action is to draw the rest of the herd into the water.

They know it. We know it. If you don't, you're fools who deserve another 'event' like the subway attacks only twice as large and with at least a 10X the casualty count to remind you of the 'costs of doing business' with the devil in plain guise.

CONCLUSION:
The Saudi Royals are richer than 95% of the rest of the planet's population. Ask yourself bluntly: WHY DO THEY NEED THE ADDED FINANCIAL PRIVELEGE? It used to be that Western Business worked because corruption was not a part of things. Now it does not because we lie with those to whom national corruption is a way of life and let them whisper that it is the way of the world. Don't be sold on the notion that 'it's a typical thing'. Because it is not and yielding that level of honesty will RUIN world trade at immense cost in strategic position for The West and national safety for everyone.


KPl.