33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason Michael Richards Loses It...

This is extremely sad to say the least, he had to have been drunk or high ?. Coming from a Jewish person i though he would be more sensitive to racial discrimination, guess not. I guess this just proves my point that its totally acceptable to be as offensive as like to African, Latinos and Arabs, not as soon as you say boo about a Jewish person you life is OVER!!!!!!.

They should threaten to charge Micheal Richards with hate crimes like they did Mel Gibson.
Yeah and pigs mite fly. Could you Imagen if Chris Rock told a Jewish person in a crowd that we gassed people like yourself 50 years ago ?.

All hell would break loose.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
mclarenmp4 he said some nasty stuff to mod. but he did make some great points. I hope he will be allowed back in. The mods. on this board are getting a little to touchy about stuff. And Hollywood is one big double standard. Great reply about Quintin. He gets eight awards. That's great.

Fair enough about the personal attacks, that is uncalled for but he was warned for going off topic. To me that is harsh considering the context of the debate & also to point out the double standards of the moderator in question.
I shall stay on topic but I do feel that both the racial issue & the masonic issue should be debated in 1 thread as they relate to the same information.
I hate to see double standards & misuse of powers, Intrepid crossed both those lines IMO.
We live in a society of hypocrites but if you have ascended to a certain level then you are excused because you are seen as being of a higher level, this can be said for both Mr Richards & intrepid.
Both should not be above people questioning their motives, correct?

Instead of the audience calling him a cracker, they should have called him a crack head!! He sounded like he was definitely off his game.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
That is the point here: I know who owns the media, I know who owns and controls Hollywood and I know who controls Washington. I know who controls the legal system. I also know where a good percentage of Mason's come from.

This is not about what is fair it is about damage control by a very powerful group of people in order to protect one of their own lest others cast negative views on the group.

I'am starting to agree with the statement. It seems thier is a double standard with this. And seems just because the guy is a mason he should get away with it.

Oh wow! One of the 'Jews-control-everything' types. Greeaatt!

For the record, I'm a Master Mason, nothing special in and of itself. Richards is likely to see some sort of punishment I'd venture. Even if he weren't who he is, his behaviour is most unbecoming of a Mason. Period. If you find actual evidence of a double standard, do provide some actual proof.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Don't know if you are a mason or not guy.. but you have defended them on several occasions around here.

Really? This is actually the first thread I've ever participated in on this forum. Would you mind pointing out other instances of me defending Masons? That would be great. Thanks.

So maybe you want to tell us why?

Yes, you figured me out. I'm the official Jew/Mason damage control guy.

Myself I've done a good amount of research on these people and I also know several (even relatives), and I'm convinced that in general they are not out to help anyone but themselves.

Good, then you probably know alot more than me about it.

I notice this debate has moved to the 'he made a mistake and made an apology and all should be forgiven' tactic. But the fact remains if a white anglo-saxon said this he would be finished and you know it. I'm hoping that black people here are also noticing the double standard on this incident.

Yes, that fact does remain, and it's unfortunate. We white anglo-saxons should be entitled to freedom of speech, and should be entitled to make mistakes, and say things we might not mean out of anger like anybody else. I fully agree with you there. And sorry, but IMO alot of black people embrace doubles standards, so I'm not sure what you hope they notice, they can say whatever they want...

That is the point here: I know who owns the media, I know who owns and controls Hollywood and I know who controls Washington. I know who controls the legal system. I also know where a good percentage of Mason's come from.

There it is. You're angry because Kramer made racist comments, but you continuously make your own about the jews. Double standard.

This is not about what is fair it is about damage control by a very powerful group of people in order to protect one of their own lest others cast negative views on the group.

What do you think is fair? What punishment should Kramer recieve for losing his temper and saying ignorant things?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I'am starting to agree with the statement. It seems thier is a double standard with this. And seems just because the guy is a mason he should get away with it.

Oh wow! One of the 'Jews-control-everything' types. Greeaatt!

For the record, I'm a Master Mason, nothing special in and of itself. Richards is likely to see some sort of punishment I'd venture. Even if he weren't who he is, his behaviour is most unbecoming of a Mason. Period. If you find actual evidence of a double standard, do provide some actual proof.

"I'd venture"

Kinda weak... guy dontcha think?

Even more sad is that people are waking up to the idea that this was deliberate and I'm betting his Mason buddies are congratulating him but saying that is sucks to get caught.

The Jews don't control everything... yet. There is still Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Libya and maybe a few others.

Proof of double standards: how about your post. You do not call for the end of Richard's career.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo

"I'd venture"

Kinda weak... guy dontcha think?

Not half so weak as your 'response'. I venture because any punishment is up to his Lodge. Period. Personally, I'd be surprised if there weren't ramifications for him. But not being a member of his Lodge, I'm not going to presume to speak for them.

Originally posted by denythestatusquoEven more sad is that people are waking up to the idea that this was deliberate and I'm betting his Mason buddies are congratulating him but saying that is sucks to get caught.

Yeah, you got us all there. We just live to be in the limelight with racist epithets and such.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Proof of double standards: how about your post. You do not call for the end of Richard's career.

That's funny, damn near hilarious! You realise he could stop working this instant, put all his money and residuals from Seinfeld in a bank savings account and live very comfortably off the stinking puny interest alone, better than you and I and most of ATS put together working 40-hr/wk for the rest of our lives? That said, the man f*cked-up. There will be ramifications in-lodge and out-of-lodge.

Originally posted by subject x
"Masonry directs us to divest ourselves of confined and bigoted notions, and teaches us, that Humanity is the soul of Religion."-W.M.Hutchinson, "The Spirit of Masonry"

www.sacred-texts.com...

If this is true, then the Masons should definately reconsider using Richardson as a poster boy, and probably reconsider whether or not he is even Mason material.

Now, I'm not a Mason or anything (the idea of secret handshakes and such just makes me giggle), but I just phoned a friend of mine who is, and his opinion was "who cares?".

To me, though, what's the point of having rites, traditions, and philosophies and such if the group isn't going to live by them?

In case you're interested, here's an on-line version of "The Spirit of Masonry"
altreligion.about.com...

[edit on 21-11-2006 by subject x]

They should NOT use him as a poster boy. That is for sure.. but honestly Masons should not join Masonry because famous people do.. like your going to go be buddies with Kramer now. But for obvious reasons he shouldn't be mentioned anymore just for the sake of PR to non members, and that it could put members in bad light. Either way, I think he should apologize to Masons for insulting the honor of the 33rd degree. It shouldn't be taken away, but just because hes a big star and all (not really THAT big of a star but famous ya know) and should just apologize, take it like a man and be done. Maybe buy the black man a dinner or something. I doubt he would want to masticate in the presence of Mr. Richards but ya never know, the two could act like adults instead of children, though that might be asking to much..

That's strange, this whole time I thought he was Jewish. I don't know why I thought that, but I really did.Hmmmm Strange

Originally posted by mclarenmp4
I agree with a lot of the sentiments in this thread, the guy was stupid & will be punished one way or another but I feel the issue here now is why dickbinbush got banned.
Seems like some moderators have a personal agenda, perhaps if you want to have a cross polination of subjects related to one particular item then the thread should be shared between sub forums. The race issue is the key here for me, whether he is a mason or not is also a sub issue, therefor it caters for both secret societies & racial discrimination.
Why waste space creating 2 separate threads one about the racial conitations & one about his status as a mason when we can debate both issues in 1 thread.
Warn me if you like but like everything in life the people who have the power use it to further their own agendas. Screw your T&C's, dickbinbush had some good points being made whether you agree with them or not.
This site used to be great at the start now it's turning into a PC haven & that goes against the grain of what this site used to be about.

Oh & intrepid, if you warned dickbinbush for going off topic then check the thread you refrenced him to comment on the racial aspect.
www.belowtopsecret.com...

2nd post by deny says that the real issue is that he is a 33rd degree mason. that's off topic & should be in this thread, did he recieve a warn for it.... NO
Double standrds huh?

[edit on 21-11-2006 by mclarenmp4]

Dear god. Is this ATS Mutiny!?!??!?

Well we don't want a totalitarian staff suppressing our rights to express our selves but.. um.

Sorry about dickbinbush but honestly I agree that he challenged Intrepid, personally calling him out, hijacking the thread when it should have been moved via u2u.. I personally think that he was rightfully banned. When I have been warned I never persisted to claim I was right.. the language and attitude was obviously out of hand.

Double standards? This is not new for this user, if youve seen him around before..

Is the staff being to touchy about the topic? Yeah, I will agree with that but maybe it is fear of being seen as a racist. Better to be seen as an over politically correct then address the issues some members rightfully feel. I think the staff just needs to be more sensitive to some of the members feelings instead of the people who are concentrating on Richards personal case.. it is a broad and sensitive subject for more then one group of people, this is a micro social problem that represents a macro social problem that in fact ought to be addressed on this thread. There was another Richards thread and it deviated into the same argument.. if the people (how few or many) have such strong feelings then please don't insult, put down, call them racist (this is not directed to mods but to everyone) it really is a real social problem.. white people are suffering severe built up hostility, and sometimes it snaps like in Richards case.. why? Because it is taboo to talk about..

I am not saying feel sorry for the white man, I am saying that white people suffer racism to, and the points that some people make, including my self, show that we DO take it personally we just can't express it because of social suppression. We are taught from kindergarten to be sorry for our fore fathers mistakes. Every book I read in school, grade school till high school was about some kind of social racist problem where evil white people torment poor colored people.. it is not fair to impose such feelings on people like that, no matter the past..

So view this case, not as a personal case for Richards but instead as a broad social problem facing our mixed nation and embrace the conversations that follow, let it deviate into constructive conversation. People like binBush are obviously simply here to cause problems, but as far as anyone else they are voicing their feelings and emotions and that should be encouraged.

Should a site like ATS expect anything less then that?

Thank you LoneGunMan and mclarenmp4

Despite what you want to believe Rockpuck, I was not here to cause trouble. I was contributing to the new direction of the thread which was the issue of black and white racial comments when Intrepid thought it would be a good idea to change that direction, and then when I disagreed with him saying we need to change the topic, I get a public warning threat instead of in U2U which I believe you suggested I do instead of publicaly insulting him, then I respond to the threat, get warned, respond to my warning with alot of swearing and insulting, and get banned.

I'm not saying I shouldn't have been banned for what I said. But, why is no blame being thrown at Intrepid? It's ok for him to openly threaten members and get away with it? It's ok of him to change topics just because he doesn't agree? I thought this was a discussion forum? How can we discuss it if we all have to agree on everything? Isn't the point of a discussion or a debate to present both sides to an argument? How can we do that if everything we say has to have guidelines, gets censored, gets dis-credited by moderators, gets edited out by moderators, gets openly challenged in a threatening way by moderators, then when the slightest response by the member is brought up, that member gets warned and is officially labeled as a "trouble maker"? Me being labeled as a trouble maker is evident of your opinion of me, Rockpuck.

If you haven't figured it out yet, this is me, DickBinBush, on another name. I fully expect this name to get banned, but I wanted to let you people in on my side of the story since it gets blocked by the people in charge of this website so they can preserve their innocent image.

Now you know the truth. I bet this post get's deleted too. Oh well.

I'm not apologizing for what I said until there is an apology coming back my way from Intrepid or an administrator. I'm not saying I'm not at fault, but I'm saying Intrepid is as well. There needs to be a two sided apology, or none at all.

That's all from me. Goodbye.

just caught the video. (and haven't read through all the posts, so i'm just commenting on the vid)
man, for a gentleman that seemingly has it together in a pretty smart way, "kramer" totally lost it! that guy was lucky he didn't get aced. you just don't do that. i can't believe that didn't escalate into a seriously violent scene.
he could have shut them down intelligently like the jamie foxx video at least.
i'd hate to wear his shoes right now.
-b

Originally posted by DickBinBush

Originally posted by intrepid
Well, you've already got one warning, no problem but this WILL stay on topic.

You want to make it other than it is, go to, or make another thread. Nuff said!

Oh now I'm being threatened? Wow you're a great representation of the moderators and this website. Haven't you threatened me before in another thread a while back? I believe you did. Do you have something against me? Go ahead, warn me, I don't care. The only one drifting off-topic here is you. You're destroying the current direction of the thread for no particular reason.

Intrepid,

I read this as, YOU using YOUR moderator powers to suppress Dick from speaking his opinion.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

I fail to see how any debating of a member getting a warn for misconduct is relevant to the topic at hand.

If you have a complaint about the actions of a member of staff you may use the Complain button at the top of your screen (that is what it's there for).

This discussion is NOT the place for it. Period. An interesting discussion was being had, and the members interested in continuing it outnumber those interested in complaining in the wrong place.

This will be the last off topic post in this thread.

Thank you.

Back on Topic now

Richards appology is here -

www.youtube.com...

You have to watch it now because CBS is trying to remove all copies of this. God only knows why? Never have any problems with other letterman shows.

He sounds sincere, but he adds alot of crap about Katrina and how comedians are trying to help.. Mah.

Live and forget, they guy is obvisouly upset.

Also You Tube has great vid of the actual events..

The audience is laughing at first, like it was a joke.. and I think he ment it as a joke until he said "N*** N*** look theres a N**!!" then the crowd is like uhh.. then the black guy he insulted was shouting racist coments to though, and as people said on this thread (mods it is no longer off topic because the guy is walked out of the room shouting cracker) there is a double standard though.. can't deny that.

He hasnt really had a career since Seinfeld ended and i think he finally just snapped when those guys were messing with him. He's pretty lucky that he didnt catch a beat down.

Thanks for the link Rockport

The man is deeply sorry, he hasn’t ruined any reputation but his own. No harm was done.

I hope that we can all forgive him. As mentioned previously the double standard surrounding the word is itself very racist..


[edit on 22/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

[edit on 22/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

If blacks don't like the use of the "N" word they should stop using it amongst themselves. As long as the word is still in use it's fair game.

Double standards blow.

Originally posted by umwolves123


i dont believe he broke any blue book laws there....insulting a man or even bigitry doesnt constitute unmasonic behavior. I'm not saying i condone this at all...i think it's an outrage...but as far as on paper, at least by the Michigan, blue book he hasnt violated any laws or any of his oaths. i dont think there is anything the grand lodge can do about it, nor do i think it's there buisness at all.

I would have to disagree. The Lectures on the Working Tools, as well as the standard Lectures and Charges, all forbid such behavior. We are all under obligation to obey the moral law.

I do not think Brother Richards should be expelled from the fraternity, but his behavior merits a Masonic censure at the very least. We are all humans, and all make mistakes. However, as Masons, we are obliged to a higher standard.

Richards is 57 years old and has done stand up for 30 + years. Comics wear they're ability to deal with hecklers as a badge of honor.Any comic worth his weight in crap can handle any heckler. That being said, I agree with denythestatusquo here. This was done with intent. Mr. Richards was given a task and he carried it out. This is just typical flame fanning bs. The same group TMZ who broke the Gibson tirade ,broke this? They must be in charge of peddling the race baiting stories out of LA. Now we have most of the semi racist blacks and whites all fired up just before Thanksgiving......MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!