Stealth Jihad in the UK?

Friends:

I find it fascinating how the Muslims are moving to the UK, establishing their own communities, in some cases quite separated from the rest of the population.

Many years ago the nations of Europe banded together to fight Muslim aggression and expansion. England was a major player in the Crusades, with Richard the Lionhearted as arguably the greatest leader of that era.

Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

How do you feel about the rights provided to Muslims in your own nation regarding freedoms, and the lack of reciprocity in the Muslim world?

Do you think there will come a time when there is a major backlash against Muslims in the UK?

There will be a time when their community and other ethnic minorities will get it in the neck, because of the various idiot extremists. It won't matter if you're Muslim, Hindu, or whatever. It might get dangerous if alot of people die in a terroist attack, especially on these shores. I don't feel that they are "taking over" either. Are there any muslims in major positions of power? I think there was a rear admiral who's a muslim. Plus there is Mohammed Sarwar, MP for Govan I think. Oh dear, oh my. They are slowly taking over. Dear GOD! Next thing you'll know they'll want to vote!

[edit on 20/11/06 by MacDonagh]

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I find it fascinating how the Muslims are moving to the UK, establishing their own communities, in some cases quite separated from the rest of the population.

- You talk as if Muslim communities in the UK are something new, they are not.

Unlike your implied belief I honestly can't think of a single 'new' Muslim community that has been established here in the last 20yrs.

Many years ago the nations of Europe banded together to fight Muslim aggression and expansion. England was a major player in the Crusades, with Richard the Lionhearted as arguably the greatest leader of that era.

- Jayzuss wept, the crusades?! What the hell is that about, huh?

Let's stop being so daft about this and bring it so much closer to our own time, huh?

Let's hear your comments about how Muslims were the largest ethnic/sectarian group to support the UK during WW2, during which time they fought and died for us and helped ensure our survival, hmmmm?
(so much so that the London Mosque was built on land donated with the thanks and gratitude of the nation in 1944)

Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

- Frankly no, not in the slightest.

How do you feel about the rights provided to Muslims in your own nation regarding freedoms, and the lack of reciprocity in the Muslim world?

- There are a lot of things about several Muslim countries that I find a pity.

But that doesn't mean 'those countries' are the standard by which I want mine judged.

Do you think there will come a time when there is a major backlash against Muslims in the UK?

- The idiot-brigade are always to be found trying to stir trouble.
'They' have their tiny minority of determined idiots at it and 'we' have our tiny minority of determined idiots at it.
Each has been at it for years too.
Pity they can't see exactly how they each feed off of the other.

Meantime the vast majority of the rest of us quietly get on with our lives and aren't consumed with sectarian or ethnic hatreds and suspicion.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Pity they can't see exactly how they each feed off of the other.

Exactly! It's so ironic that groups such as the British National Party (*spits*) cause the very things they claim is wrong with the United Kingdom!

Why do Muslims feel alienated and vulnerable? Because you've got scum like Nick Griffin and his cronies spouting hate and getting publicity for doing so. Hence, due it the BNP's view being blown out of proportion, the Muslims feel threatened and this is one of the factors that makes them turn to extremism. And, paradoxically, the BNP feed on what these extremist Muslims say and do... it's a never-ending circle. Unless we stop it.

How do we do this? Not legislation, but dialogue - show people that the BNP and radical Muslims are tiny minorities, highlight how they feed from each other, and point out that these groups and their views have no place in Britain. Will Muslims take over this country? Nope. Will the BNP? Nope. Sadly, both groups are having greater success as of late. But British nationalism is something that rears its ugly head every once in a while, and has done since before Oswald Mosely and his British Union of Fascists in the 1930s.

I remain convinced that moderates can win the fight against extremism, whatever guise it takes.

Try, try not to imagine what I'm thinking.

1) I never said nor implied that Muslims are "taking over", those are purely your words, not mine.

2) I never mentioned anything about Muslim communities being new, nor old.

I merely solicited an honest opinion/assessment. Thank you for yours, but please spare the rest of us your vitriol and cynicism.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
Try, try not to imagine what I'm thinking.

- I don't think anyone needs to "imagine" anything here, your own words are there to be seen and are quite clear in their meaning.

1) I never said nor implied that Muslims are "taking over", those are purely your words, not mine.

- Yeah you did. Your meaning and implications are quite obvious.

Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

- See?
Attempting to change the country to Muslim & foreign. Your own words.

2) I never mentioned anything about Muslim communities being new, nor old.

- Er, yes you did.

You did here -

I find it fascinating how the Muslims are moving to the UK, establishing their own communities, in some cases quite separated from the rest of the population.

- The present tense and meaning you have used is quite apparant.

I merely solicited an honest opinion/assessment.

- If you're going to try and play these silly little linguistic wriggling & quibbling games then you're going to have to do a lot better than this.

Thank you for yours, but please spare the rest of us your vitriol and cynicism.

- "Vitriol"?

Where?

"Cynacism"?

Where?

You got rumbled straight away is all. Socky. Byeeeee.

I never had problems with immigrants in britain and thought much like you lot here. However, after living in central Bradford for two years I now hate them. I lived in multicultural areas like birmingham previously, and had no problems at all.
Bradford is different though. They are angry. Young lads spit where you walk. Windows have things thrown at them because you don't belong there apparantly. Trust me, the day will come when you are abused as you walk down the street just for being different to them, much like I have been. Bollocks to the do-gooders telling me I am racist because of 'my' feelings, you live among people that hate you and you will hate them, simple.

Originally posted by CarlosG
Bradford is different though. They are angry. Young lads spit where you walk. Windows have things thrown at them because you don't belong there apparantly.

- Yeah, decades of racism and casual abuse will do that.

Especially when people like the BNP show up in the area regularly to try and provoke unrest.

But never mind the facts, all 'racism' is now only from black/brown against whites, right?
Isn't that how you prefer to believe the majority of it is now, right?

Keep on blaming 'them' for it all and ignore all the rest - especially that which has helped create an aggressive response if you like.

Damn those brown boys for not just keeping their heads down & meekly accepting abuse like their fore-fathers used to, why do they have to respond to abuse, threats and regular actual violence, huh?

Trust me, the day will come when you are abused as you walk down the street just for being different to them, much like I have been.

- Blah blah blah blah. Change the record.
This ridiculous doom has been preached for the last 5 decades.

Honestly, you'd think you were the only one to ever encounter a brown skinned nutter.

I lived in Stratford/Forest Gate area of London for a couple of years during the mid 1980's.
That was mostly 'an asian and black area' of London and (just after the inner city riots) could feel threatening.

.....and so what?

There were white nutters knocking about areas of East Ham/Dagenham where I also lived.

Bollocks to the do-gooders telling me I am racist because of 'my' feelings,

- You can try and justify your racism all you like but all you're doing is trying to spread hatred.
You're merely matching what you see as one lot of wrong with your own wrong and then pretending that it's OK, 'self-defence' and 'right'. It isn't.

......and maybe you haven't noticed it but there's a move on here at ATS/PTS to try and bring civility to the discussions.

If you are going to come here swearing and abusing people ("bollocks to the do-gooders" etc) and attacking people rather than debating the things folks have said you'll not last too long around here, K?

you live among people that hate you and you will hate them, simple.

- You must be so proud.

.....and so incapable of making the connections about that which you complain about
(but of course anyone pointing out the 'logic' of your own statements here must just be a silly old blinkered 'do-gooder' and "bollocks to them", right? )


[edit on 21-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

One can change the nature of a society without "taking control" as you implied, not me.

I chose my words very deliberately. Perhaps you should remove the chip from your shoulder, read it again, and use a dictionary if you have any problems.

Buh-bye

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
One can change the nature of a society without "taking control" as you implied, not me.

- Well that's true but then that isn't what you actually said.

Your initial comments was

Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

- Plainly you aren't just referring to some vague small changes that would "change the nature of our society" but you said changing "the nature of your country to that which is Muslim and foreign".

Muslims making the UK a Muslim country.
That's your clear meaning there in English.

That must mean the small Muslim minority (for that is what they are here) changing the UK to a Muslim and foreign country which must mean a taking power to effect such dramatic and radical change (against the wishes of the secular majority) and that must equate to a takeover in anyone (reasonable)'s book.

Naturally no doubt you imagine your title to this thread (Stealth Jihad in the UK?) was completely inconsequential to all of this too?

You can dance around the semantics of this all you like but you got busted.

I chose my words very deliberately.

- Quite clearly in this instance you were nothing like half as clever about it as you like to flatter yourself.

Perhaps you should remove the chip from your shoulder, read it again, and use a dictionary if you have any problems.

- Sorry to disappoint but I have no "chip on my shoulder".

Your own words are there, the meaning is plain, obvious and perfectly clear.
Perhaps you should try improving your comprehension yourself?

You know Dennis Healey one time British Chancellor of the Exchequer once gave an excellent piece of advide I find very appropriate here.......when you're in a hole stop digging.

Better luck next time socko.


[edit on 21-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
One can change the nature of a society without "taking control" as you implied, not me.

- Well that's true but then that isn't what you actually said.

Your initial comments was

Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

- Plainly you aren't just referring to some vague small changes that would "change the nature of our society" but you said changing "the nature of your country to that which is Muslim and foreign".

Nice straw man! "You didn't say X, but we know you 'plainly' MEANT X, which is totally wrong, thus you're wrong." It doesn't work that way. Would you like to address recent statements by members of CAIR that the ultimate goal is the establishment of sharia law in the United States, OVER the Constitution? Or would you rather pretend that those statements were never made?

Muslims making the UK a Muslim country.
That's your clear meaning there in English.

That must mean the small Muslim minority (for that is what they are here) changing the UK to a Muslim and foreign country which must mean a taking power to effect such dramatic and radical change (against the wishes of the secular majority) and that must equate to a takeover in anyone (reasonable)'s book.

Naturally no doubt you imagine your title to this thread (Stealth Jihad in the UK?) was completely inconsequential to all of this too?

You can dance around the semantics of this all you like but you got busted.

Actually, he didn't. He hit the damn nail right on the head. You talk about racism and intolerance but I have seen the rallies in the streets in the UK featuring signs that say "behead those who insult the prophet." I suggest you take the time to watch the documentary "Obsession" and then return here and tell us that the takeover of the entire Western world (hint: that includes the UK) is not the goal of the extremists. The template is there for a takeover of the UK, and it's happening in both France and Germany.

I chose my words very deliberately.

- Quite clearly in this instance you were nothing like half as clever about it as you like to flatter yourself.

And you were very quick to assume certain things that were not in his statements. Perhaps in the future you should stop construing what someone says into what you want them to have said.

Perhaps you should remove the chip from your shoulder, read it again, and use a dictionary if you have any problems.

-

Sorry to disappoint but I have no "chip on my shoulder".

Hard to tell that from the nature of your initial post. Try re-reading his initial post objectively instead of projecting what you wish he had said into it.

Your own words are there, the meaning is plain, obvious and perfectly clear.
Perhaps you should try improving your comprehension yourself?

Hey, Pot, the Kettle called...

You know Dennis Healey one time British Chancellor of the Exchequer once gave an excellent piece of advide I find very appropriate here.......when you're in a hole stop digging.

Since you obviously thought you won, perhaps you should take the advice of my little league coach, "There are sore winners as well as losers," but the truth is, you're argument is weakly construed, you've set up numerous straw men and shot them down and now pride yourself on having "destroyed" an opponent who was never there. Congrats.

Better luck next time socko.

Keep your head in the sand, buddy.

Let's hear your comments about how Muslims were the largest ethnic/sectarian group to support the UK during WW2, during which time they fought and died for us and helped ensure our survival, hmmmm?
(so much so that the London Mosque was built on land donated with the thanks and gratitude of the nation in 1944)

Do you mean the same WW2 where brigades of Muslims fought for the Nazis in Yugoslavia? Where the Imam of Jeruselem met with Hitler and came away convinced that the goals of both were the same?

Pathetic.
When one sock is invented and created to back up and support another socky you know it's getting beyond risible.

Since you obviously thought you won

- Oh! What a give-away.
The mentality revealed for all to see.

Have a great time talking amongst yourself, I'm sure it all makes perfect sense...... to you.

(Oh and for anyone interested in that last little distortion and selective slur, it's true a few 1000 Muslims in Yugoslavia did side with the Germans in WW2.
But that pales compared to the several 100,000 thousand who sided with the British and allies.)


[edit on 24-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by CarlosG
I never had problems with immigrants in britain and thought much like you lot here. However, after living in central Bradford for two years I now hate them. I lived in multicultural areas like birmingham previously, and had no problems at all.
Bradford is different though. They are angry. Young lads spit where you walk. Windows have things thrown at them because you don't belong there apparantly. Trust me, the day will come when you are abused as you walk down the street just for being different to them, much like I have been. Bollocks to the do-gooders telling me I am racist because of 'my' feelings, you live among people that hate you and you will hate them, simple.

I work in Bradford and the above is absolute total and utter crap of the highest degree. I have never had anyone spit where I walk, nor have I ever seen things thrown through windows on the grounds of race. The local and national newspapers - particularly in the light of the recent Nick Griffin trail would have been full of such things had they occured.

I would love to know which part of Bradford the poster refers to. I'm sure that EVERY city, across the world has isolated one-off spots of trouble


[edit on 24-11-2006 by neformore]

Pathetic.
When one sock is invented and created to back up and support another socky you know it's getting beyond risible.

Ahh, apparently you think I'm Glenn Greenwald or something. Sorry, but that is a tactic more frequently used by the LEFT. I've been lurkin' here a while and decided to chime in because you, sir, *removed insult*

I assure you I am not the above mentiond Zyiwhatever guy. Matter of fact, I don't know what the hell his name even means. I have only ever posted on online forums using this name, and there are plenty of places you can find me, should you have the freakin' brains to use Google and search my name. I even have a blog of my own, though I post there infrequently. Though, from the posts, it's easy to infer my writing style. It is only apparent that you're a troll who thrives on building up fallacious arguments in order to smack them down. And only drag out the sock-puppet accusation when there is no real basis for your contentions. I'm quite anxious to see the IP addresses you are able to pull out of your fabulous straw hat in order to prove your accusation...you will see that I don't even use the same service provider as the above poster. So sorry, whiff on that as well!

I blasted you out of the water and this is all you have to offer? Sock-puppet accusations? Provide identical IPs or shut the hell up, troll.

(Oh and for anyone interested in that last little distortion and selective slur, it's true a few 1000 Muslims in Yugoslavia did side with the Germans in WW2.

Led by the Imam of Jeruselem...or did you so quickly forget that?

But that pales compared to the several 100,000 thousand who sided with the British and allies.)

Ahhh, so we're supposed to forget 1500 years of barbarity and 30+ years of terrorism because of that? Sorry.

mod edit: removed insult

[edit on 26-11-2006 by UK Wizard]

Originally posted by otcconan
you, sir, are obviously an idiot.

- You might like to check the Terms and conditions.

Personal abuse is not tolerated here.

I suggest you go spread your 'unique' brand of provocative nonsense elsewhere.

Originally posted by neformore
I'm sure that EVERY city, across the world has isolated one-off spots of trouble

- Of course.

But then one-off (or 'ordinary & infrequent) instances of trouble really aren't much use to those trying to propagate this absurd idea that 'we' are all in grave danger from this sort of insinuated Muslim 'take-over'

(which - naturally - then gets denied as having ever been insinuated when anyone has the neck to actually stand up and call it for the lie it is).

Stop with the petty insults or I'll stop with the thread, m'kay...

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

Not if you mean the whole muslim community. This is a case of fanatics of the muslim faith furthering their own ends by allowing the media to portray 'Islam' as an imposing faith. I think there is a stealth jihad in our country, but it is only created by terrorists who believe faith should rule over sectarian beliefs.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
How do you feel about the rights provided to Muslims in your own nation regarding freedoms, and the lack of reciprocity in the Muslim world?

Fundametalism 'hates' our country because we allow individuals freedom. However this isn't the view of the majority of muslim people or they wouldn't have fought for tolerance in WW2. Our country allows practicing Muslims who want freedom to have a place to live where religious beliefs do not dictate the laws of the country. The Muslim world is exactly that, and any percieved injustice that they don't allow the freedoms we have in this country are only percieved, not actual, injustices. People live in different ways and you have to accept it.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
Do you think there will come a time when there is a major backlash against Muslims in the UK?

It depends how a number of situations unfold. With the current media trend of brandishing all muslims with the same brush it seems likely that the general population will become increasingly unhappy with muslims as a whole.

One situation is the current running debate over 'religious' dress of muslim women. This could be a tipping point, with many cases of aggression against muslims already being reported. I hope that tolerance will be the concept that rules over our actions. Sometimes I feel that WW2 was a waste of time as tolerance has been completely forgotten in our country and the genera population feels everyone who comes to our land should become 'English' (CoE/tea drinking/tweed wearing) upon arrival. Multi-culturalsim, if continually checked, will help our country more than any individuals, and we should embrace other peoples views rather than fearing them.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I find it fascinating how the Muslims are moving to the UK, establishing their own communities, in some cases quite separated from the rest of the population.

It is pretty odd how the british are unaccepting of the muslims and pushing them into ethnic cloisters.

Do any of you have a sense that Muslims are slowly attempting to change the nature of your country to that which is Muslim, and foreign?

THere's less of a threat of a muslim uprising and a muslim state in england today than there was of, say, a catholic and papist ruled one a few hundred years ago.

How do you feel about the rights provided to Muslims in your own nation regarding freedoms, and the lack of reciprocity in the Muslim world?

?
Why should muslims in the UK be denied human rights because muslims elsewhere don't have them??