Food for survival.

What kinds of foods do you stock up on in preparation for situation X?

Tinned, packets, both? What food do you carry in your BOB? Do you stock for personal taste or survival? Particular foods, high in fats, carbs and protiens?

Multi-vits?

How much notice do you take of "use by dates" on tins and what food are ideal to stock in tins that won't go off if any?

Thought i'd add this as a seperate thread due to the fact that theres no point in having all the gear if you don't eat properly.

I'd strongly recommend that you look into a decent book relevant to your area that details natural remedies and foods that you can eat in the wild (plantlife etc). But it, read it then get out there and use it before you really have to.

CX.

mod edit: removed survivalist from title due to creation of new forum

[edit on 12-12-2006 by UK Wizard]

situation x??????????????? Which one?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
situation x??????????????? Which one?

I think he's saying "insert any generic situation/disaster here." I don't think it matters so much what the situation is, unless you're worried about your food being contaminated with radiation. But in that case you're probably contaminated as well.

Anyway, let's just say for the sake of argument that a gigantic meteor hits the Earth (not a complete global killer). You're cut off from communication with the rest of the world, there's no stores to get anything from and no farms to pick food from. What kinds of foods should you have saved for such a situation? Or ANY disaster situation, be it terrorist attack, natural disaster, alien invasion (sorry I couldn't resist!), etc.

I know that M.R.E.'s (Meals Ready to Eat (Military)) would probably be a good start. But even they expire after a while. If you're going to buy them online, especially from a stranger on a site like E-bay, then be sure you know what the experation dates are beforehand. I've also seen similar "survival meals" that come in cans and other containers. I forge the website that listed these, but the packages ranged in price from several hundred dollars to several thousand. They did last pretty long, however. The prices all depend on how elaborate you want to go, how many people you're feeding, and how long you want to feed them for (days, weeks, months).

I don't know anything about the subject but I have wondered this before as I think all Americans should have at least a rudimentory survival kit at home. Someday when my finances are better I'd like to build a nice bomb shelter! I've seen pre-assembled ones online and they're cool as hell. You can get them as big as you want, since they come in units and you can attach some of them together. So basically you could have your whole neighborhood go in on it and have one installed that holds 50 people or whatever.

Hope I didn't hijack the thread! But it's a great question to ask, especially in these times. Hopefully someone has the answers for us and will address all of the complications involved like expiring food, nutrition, etc. It'd also be nice if someone could address the personal hygene issue as well- water, soap, shaving cream, etc.

C Rats last extremely long, they come in tins so you have to have a way to open them and heat them if you want hot meals. The new MRE's are self contained, just add water to the heating element if you want them hot. I have one MRE immediatley acessible with easy access to more if need be. The MRE's have upwards of 6000 Calories in each, which can sustain somebody for a couple of days of you ration it out. They are designed to provide for soldiers who don't have access to three meals a day and can be eaten cold just fine (done it plenty of times). For one person a case (12) should last for a wek to two weeks depending on consumption. I like the taste of the newer MRE's, sure beats the older style MRE's and c and K rats.

Originally posted by Rasputin13

I know that M.R.E.'s (Meals Ready to Eat (Military)) would probably be a good start. But even they expire after a while. If you're going to buy them online, especially from a stranger on a site like E-bay, then be sure you know what the experation dates are beforehand.

From everything I've read, MREs will break down and lose their nutritional value long before they become actually inedible or spoiled. I still have a couple sealed Gulf War era MREs (circa 1990-1991) and once every couple years I open one up and try it. The last one I tried, I'd say summer 2005, was a ham slice and was just as delicious as it would have been 15 years ago. The crackers seemed fresh and crisp, the cheese spread seemed fine, and I did not get sick. I have no way to test for nutritional content, but it made my belly feel full! And I have them stored in a slightly climate-controlled environment, won't get into any detail, let's just say it's where I store lots of my preparedness supplies and the temp hovers around 55 degrees F all of the time.

If you want to know the US Army doctrine on MREs, just ask and I will ask someone. I believe the inspection date is either two, three, or four years from manufacture. Most MREs my unit is served are brand-spankin' new production, rarely do we have them over a year old.

Unless it has changed since I was in S4, the production date is very simple to calculate, look for a 4-digit stamp on the outside of the case. First digit is the year, next three are date of the year. Example: January 15, 2006 would be 6015, meaning the 15th day of 2006.

MRE's are fine if you enjoy pissing your money down the drain. Really I think MRE's are a "macho" thing, oh look at me I have Army gear. The only decent use of MRE's is when you are bugging out and even then they are still a stupid idea. You just won't need that much food, you would be better off if you replace the weight of the MRE's with water and some packaged ramen and maybe a jar of peanut butter, total cost maybe 5 bucks.

If you really want food for survival you have to learn to produce your own food, if you don't you will die.

If you really want food for survival you have to learn to preserve food, if you don't you will die.

If you really want food for survival you have to learn to cook from scratch, if you don't you will die

OK the SHtF, you are in your safe place. You have a 50# bag of wheat and several pounds of salt. Could you make a loaf of bread?

You have another bag of dried beans of some sort. What kind of meals could you prepare?

Lets say when you arrived at you cabin in the wilderness you found a rabbit inside. Do you know how to gut it safely? How many meals can you make out of it? Could you brain tan the skin? Are you capable of getting a second rabbit? and a third?

Lets say you came across a male and female goat, could you breed them? could you raise the kids? can you milk the female? can you preserve any excess milk/meat?

Spring is on the way, you have an assortment of vegetable seeds, can you grow a productive garden? do you know what grows best in your area? When to plant what? Can you name the three sisters? Can you preserve the harvest for the next winter?

If you can answer in the affirmative these questions and others like them, you can survive. If you survival plans revolve around MRE's and cans of SPAM and pork and beans you will not survive.

Just to clarify, it doesn't matter if I am in the military or not, I am not advocating the stockpiling of MREs. Frankly I only have a half dozen cases, and most of the meals are distributed among the 72 hour kits I've made for family members.

Please don't think that I am implying that the utility of an MRE is any substitute for true self-reliant preparedness skills. I probably would not have any MREs at all if I weren't able to get them through military sources, as they are overpriced (IMHO) for what they are and the bulk of the meal takes up room that could be better utilized for food preparation and preservation. The old parable about giving a man a fish to feed him for a day, versus teaching a man to fish so he can feed himself for a lifetime.

Cug
Once again I find myself agreeing with some of what you say. But mainly I'm a little irritated that you are allowing your opinion to in danger others. Just because you do not like MRE's does not make them a bad thing. Remember we have a responsibility to pass on accurate safe information not opinion information. I'm sure you have your reasons why they wont work for you but not everybody is you.

To answer the question asked in the post I rely on MRE's in all my bags, and At our re-treat , I have enough MRE's for about two weeks for 4 people. That gives us enough time to start hunting and gathering natures bounty if needed.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by angryamerican]

MREs are clearly the best bang for the buck. If you do not have survival skills (I.e.: hunting, fishing, trapping, field dressing etc...) MREs will keep you alive and fully nourished. I have survival training and I will still pack out about a dozen MREs until I can settle in and set camp. Then I will hunt, trap and gather. I hope to God that you are planning on packing vitamin pills with you as Ramen and peanut butter will only take you so far and Scurvey isn't too fun.

For those that do not have access to MREs, Jerky is a better alternative than peanut butter - it is lighter and will provide Iron, along with protein. Rice will prove to be better than Ramen (You will replenish salt via jerky) as it contains starches and complex carbs not found in Ramen. Some plain dried white rice will suffice and you will find that you will have a far greater volume of cooked rice, pound for pound, in comparison to Ramen.

Finally, vitamins would be a good idea. There is no telling how balanced a diet you will be able to maintain. 1 multi-vitamin taken every 4 or 5 days will help keep your system functioning properly and keep you healthy provided you are able to maintain your caloric intake.

Finally, water is paramount. The body is unable to convert food to energy without it. Water provides the electrolytes required to launch the energy cycle that converts food to nutrition. Make sure that you provide a way for yourself to obtain pure potable water. Employing filtration is the safest method in conjunction with chemical treatment. If that is not available, chemical treatment will suffice for a limited amount of time.

Originally posted by angryamerican
To answer the question asked in the post I rely on MRE's in all my bags, and At our re-treat , I have enough MRE's for about two weeks for 4 people. That gives us enough time to start hunting and natures bounty if needed.

Respectfully, that advice can kill as well. Nature is a fickle mistress, and to rely on her 100% is taking your survival out of your hands. For not that much more money you could stock your retreat with a years worth of supplies. (I'm talking the basics here grains, beans, etc..) It won't be a vacation but you will survive. Hunting and foraging are great, but use them to supplement your meals.

If you really want to survive you must get as self sufficient as you can right now. (I'm working on it)

I'll guess I'll bow out of the Survivalist threads here. Good luck people.

Originally posted by Cug
MRE's are fine if you enjoy pissing your money down the drain. Really I think MRE's are a "macho" thing, oh look at me I have Army gear.

Cug, whist i find some of your advice usefull, i have to ask....what is your problem with military gear? You seem to dimiss it in an almost bitter manner as though you once wanted to join the military but never got in, and now spend your days putting down anything to do with the military. I may be wrong there but thats the way it comes across.

I just find it hard to believe that someone who supposedly knows so much about good kit and survival needs, can dismiss much of the stuff used by the military. I'm not saying all the gear the forces use is great, but then again it they do pick stuff that has enough durability that should last for long periods of tough times. Most of the times i think if it's good enough to go to war with, it's good enough for a few days in the woods.

That said, there are some great civilian/hiking items of kit out there which should definately be considered. Many cross over too, some hiking makes are adopted by the military are'nt they?

CX.

CX,
military spec kit is designed for contiued use in a harsher than normal operating environment... and as a rule of thumb civvie kit usually follows where mil kit has led..

Not always, but most of the time.

Cug.

You have issues you need to deal with re military kit.

I'm answering a third CX survival thread, to find you yet again doing a turn about how you don't rate it at all and its no use..... dude, what ever your problem is, get over it.

CX needs impartial advice, and he's getting it.

I wouldn't climb everest in Military gear, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want to do a long term survivalist situation without mil spec gear - Its way tougher and lasts so much longer... so you see, theres gear for needs, and at low level in a survivalist situation I'd want the gear thats going to last longest and be strongest.

Originally posted by CX

Cug, whist i find some of your advice usefull, i have to ask....what is your problem with military gear? You seem to dimiss it in an almost bitter manner as though you once wanted to join the military but never got in, and now spend your days putting down anything to do with the military. I may be wrong there but thats the way it comes across.

4 years in the 1st Infantry Division. MOS: 31M (Multi channel radio communications system operator, I believe that MOS is no more, replaced by Sat comms 31Q? or was it K?)

I just find it hard to believe that someone who supposedly knows so much about good kit and survival needs, can dismiss much of the stuff used by the military. I'm not saying all the gear the forces use is great, but then again it they do pick stuff that has enough durability that should last for long periods of tough times. Most of the times i think if it's good enough to go to war with, it's good enough for a few days in the woods.

Sticking to food to keep ontopic here but the comments also apply generally. It's a matter of the right tool for the right job.

MRE's are designed to fuel a young man (for the most part) in what probably is his peak physical condition in combat with a huge supply system behind him. You just wont see a someone carrying weeks worth of food on his person. They will get resupplied in a day or two or the gut truck will catch up to them. MREs were never meant as a long term food source.

The survival situation is not a combat situation, it's a keep your butt alive situation. I find it funny how it seems people thought I meant ramen and peanut butter was something you live on for months at a time.. You are not going to be malnourished from eating ramen for a week. A week I might add where you are traveling to your save house/retreat/where ever where you have real food stocked. Did everybody stop reading after said ramen?

That said, there are some great civilian/hiking items of kit out there which should definately be considered. Many cross over too, some hiking makes are adopted by the military are'nt they?

See below

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
military spec kit is designed for contiued use in a harsher than normal operating environment... and as a rule of thumb civvie kit usually follows where mil kit has led..

Not always, but most of the time.

I'd say most of the time millspec is far behind. It takes forever for new stuff gets approved and then filtered down to the troops. (who have to wait till the clothing allowance comes in to be able to afford it) I got out of the Army about 6 months before the start of the gulf war. at that time they just started issuing better cold weather gear, polypropylene underware, and the new slip over winter jackets, shoot for that matter they shelter halves (tents for those that don't know) were still made of canvas. Durring the Gulf was I was busy shipping over coolmax shirts for my buddies. (this was something like 5 or 6 years after it has been introduced. The only folks who may have a shot at the good stuff are the special forces/rangers/seals etc..

Honestly the survivalist community seems to have a fetish for military gear (I'm not really talking about anyone here.. I was very active online about this many years ago and got sick of them) there are better choices out there for survival. Yet if someone dares say there are better options well you see what happened.

Oh BTW I hiked the Appalachian trail a few years after I got out of the Army and I swear that my civvie equipment held up better than my Military gear ever did.

Learn how to Jerky fresh kills.(After you learn how to hunt with a Bow that is). Once you learn that, then you'll always have a supply of protean that taste good.

For me I had to think about the fact that it may be me carrying a crap load of stuff...in the event that staying in the home isn't possible. My pack is already hefty enough without carrying a lot of canned items. I've found a fairly interesting assortment of dried proteins in vacuum pack sold in the local asian markets here in Vancouver. As well as dried veggy and fruits. not the greatest tasting but has all the nutrients needed. I tried to stay away from the ones that were salted or where chemical nitrates were used to preserve...they make you thirsty and deplete certain minerals from your system.

I like the vacuum packed as it's lighter, compact and there's usually wider variety of items. Just watch for chemical nitrates. Naturally dehydrated products are better, though the shelf life isn't always that long.

Multi-vits are only as good as your base diet. Most vitamins require fats and minerals in combination in order to be properly absorbed. They also have a shelf life and exposure to air and light as well as heat can affect the potency.

Myself personally I keep only a small amount on hand and more specific to female needs...

Providing the wildlife isn't killed off during Situation X...I can fish, and there is a wide assortment of edible vegetation in my area. In desperate times...don't forget the value of bugs, small birds and vermin LOL. Gross but hey lets face it...if it comes down to it you eat what you've got available.

I don't have nor do I intend to have a gun...so it's my compact fishing kit, a couple of knives and I'm sure through trial and error I could learn to make a bow and arrows and/or practical traps for small critters.

Well,

I'm not as well versed in this as I should be but I can say this. Baby formula has the best bang for the buck. You can carry tons of zip loc bags of formula and mixing 3 oz's of formula per 8 oz's of water will privide you all the nutients you need for the day. And anyone who is looking to drop about 10-15 lbs drink baby formula 5 times a day and have one meal. I went from 225 down to 200-198 in 6 weeks by doing this with no health problems. I would say I feel more healthy now than ever. I use 3 oz's to my morning shake.

Is all that lactose good for you ?

LOL in regards to baby formula...not a bad way to get a boost, but as a meal it lacks enough real protein, sugars and carbs to sustain an adult for very long.

It also requires water which may not be readily available and you sure as heck don't want to be transporting around with you in any great amount.

Nutritionally baby formula is insufficient. Better to pack some Boost Bars or Carb bars...or protein powder if you're confident you can find water to mix it.

Baby formula nutritional info

If you're looking for an energy boost...better to have some choco chips and raisins or dried fruits...or little candies. Also help to create saliva and ward off thirst.

I wouldn't recommend baby formula for serious survival.

I like MRE's. I think they are tasty. But they are HEAVY as heck. MRE's are meant to be baltle feld issued and no one carries a weeks worth of MRE's on their back. Great for a bug out kit, keep a few in the trunk of your car, have a few cases in your hideout, butthere are far better food sources for the long haul.
Rice and Jerky were a good start and dont forget beans. To be continued...

Originally posted by Cug
MRE's are fine if you enjoy pissing your money down the drain. Really I think MRE's are a "macho" thing, oh look at me I have Army gear.

Hmmmmm Cug, I would have to disagre. Having kept a survival kit for years here in earthquake country, I recently switched a chunk of my food stuffs over to the MRE's why?

1) Its not a "macho" issue, if Army gear had such cache with me I would outfit my entire kit with milspec items.

2) I live in a suburban setting, I do not have alot of space and MRE's in particular the entree's are quite small, are resonable calorie dense and thus have a small footprint.

3) Cost. In bulk a 400-500 kcal MRE entree can be had as low as $1.85 to 2.50 couple that with........

4) Shelf life: stored properly MRE's can last 5-7 years before they require replacement. How many prepared food products can make that claim?

5) Selection: Tons of variation avalible to suit anytaste.

6) Ease of use: Open the bag and eat. They can be consumed cold if need be, or the bag can be dropped into boiling water to cook as well.

7) as you mention, theya re also portable which is a factor everybody should take into consideration