Help Me! I'm so frustrated!

Can anyone tell me what happens when you put a rotating electric field inside a rotating magnetic field?

I have had this idea rolling around in my head for years.

If you can't tell me then can you show me someone who can?

Sorry but I can't help you but I'm trying to understand how you could practically make such a device in the first place? If you know how to make it then do it and experiment since that is how knowledge is advanced.

wait a minute... a rotating electric field, inside a rotating magnetic field?
You mean like taking an electric motor, and tie it's inputs together? That would be exactly that.

Basically, the magnetic field opposes the flow of electricity, and makes it very hard to turn the thing by hand.

That very effect is used as an electrical form of breaks on an electro-motor. The electricity generated by the spinning magnets, opposes the direction of the spinning magnets, which acts to stop the thing from spinning.

You should try it. Just grab yourself a simple electromotor, preferrably DC as they are cheap and easy to come by, take the two leads, and twist/sauder them together.
Then try turning it, you will find it fights you. Then unhook the leads, and you will find it very easy to turn again.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by johnsky]

Your right johnsky.

If you take the motor with the inputs tied together and you rotate the case then the rotor will try to catch up with the rotating magnets. That is exactly what they call an induction motor.

Also, if you take a small coil of copper wire and move a magnet over it then the coil will want to stick to the magnet. But the coil never can stick because there has to be movement between the magnet and the coil. If the coil did touch the magnet then there would be no more force induced in the coil and it would fall away. Falling away would induce the attractive force again so the coil would fall away slowly.

I believe that most people that know about electric motors will know what a rotating magnetic field is. That is a very common thing.

However, the concept of a rotating electric field is slightly different. I can not think of one example of a commercial implementation of a rotating electric field.

A rotating electric field would not have coils of wire, it would have plates instead. Think of a capacitor.

Here is a very simple picture of what a rotating electric field device would look like.

A rotating electric field can be known as circularly polarized radiation.

Note that if you have a "rotating" magnetic field then it would seem that by Maxwell's laws that a rotating electric field would also be generated.

If the frequency is low, as in common AC electric motors where rotating magnetic fields are standard, then the strength of the induced E field would be small.

If frequency were high like microwaves then the strength could be substantial; circular polarization is well known and used in microwave transmission and reception.

There can be some advantage as circularly polarized antennas may be less susceptible to multipath on ground communcations.

www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com...


I don't know any use for circularly polarized low frequency quasistatic electric fields.

Angry Scientist,

That is EXACTLY the experiment Im working on. However, I am also including targeting High Frequecies and High Voltages in this experiment. I am interested in working with 2 or 3 people with the same interest and goal, to share ideas and data. If you would be interested in this, post and let me know and I will give you my msn to make contact. I have about 6 different ways I could go, and am trying to narrow it down to one or two methods by researching so as not to waste money or time on ones that might not be relevant. Let me know.

Godspeed,

Dango

Okay, so your placing an electrical charge on plates of metal, swapping which plates conduct in a circular fashion... if you're using DC electricity, you are making a crude form of radio transmission.

The rotating electrical fields will cause an RF waveform, only, you can't really use it for much, as A) it wouldnt be as efficient as a coil and antenna transmitter, and B) you cant readily alter it's frequency fast enough to make it a feasable transmission apparatus. You can change the speed of the rotating field, but not as rapidly as you can change the frequency of a typical transmitter.

As for what goes on in the center of the rotating device... not sure. But laterally from it you will observe a crude wave form generated as the charged contacts move closer to you and then further from you again. If you're using two rotating electrical fields, you will end up with an M shaped waveform.

I can only hazard a guess as to what you may be doing in the center of the aparatus. Perhaps, seeing as the two electrical fields can't viably perform work, yet the energy is still being sent to the center of the apparatus, you may end up generating a charge of static electricity on whatever is in the center of the rotating electrical field.

I suppose the only way to find out for sure is to try it.

Anyone ever thought of using a series of these rotating magnetic fields to launch a projectile? I wonder what would happen if you say put like 15 of them in a series and put some sort of slug in the middle.

It wouldnt create a directional force, per se... unless you use a ferrous projectile and allow it to contact the electrified rails. Then you've got yourself a rail gun... only difference is, you're spinning this one.

ok and that therefore would cause the ferrous shell to what? be more accurate?

Sorry just trying to find some use for this technology. I suppose you could use a molton nickle ferite core surrounded by a sustained hydrogen fusion reaction and pull of the electrons with the spinning magnetic fields and get some sort of energy. EH I don't know gun Fusion generator. ether way.

It would depend what direction the 2 fields are rotating in relation to each other. To get a rotating electric field, you can use a distributor from a V8 for 8 plates of charge.

I don't know exactly what would happen or if anything would happen, but theres no harm in trying. What should also be experimented with, is the element bismuth. Bismuth has odd properties (not "new age") and was supposedly found at the Roswell crash.

Dango, where are you located, I'm near Toronto.

Interesting info XL5

Bismuth is the most non magnetic metal that we know of. Curious, where did you hear about them finding Bismuth as Roswell?, Ive done alot of research on Roswell and havent ran into that one.

I thought of that too XL5, using a distributor to control the magnetizing sectors.

At this point, Im looking to fabricate a rotating field inside of a torroid. I have thought of doing this like the Angry Scientist has shown, but I think it will be easier to use coils and permanent magnets. I will charge the torroid or disk with a Tesla coil. I am unsure at this point if I should insulate the inside of the torroid. I live in Oregon XL5.

I would use 2 distributors and make one for the high voltage and the other with the plates and a rotating magnet(s) in it. I don't if I would go for toroids and coils as it takes time to wind.

Bismuth is diamagnetic and repels magnetic fields, its #83 on the periodic table, right above element #115. Elements right above and below elements are said to have like properties and element 115 is said to power "some" UFO's.

www.keelynet.com...

XL5

Thank You for the link explaining your inclusion of Bismuth in your post. BTW Element 115 is not on the "currently printed or accepted" charts, and is the metal described by Bob Lazar. It probably does exist, but only in black projects.

The reason for the torroid or disk housing is on the same principle as the Van de Graf generator. Any sharp edge will dissapate a high ionic charge. That is the reason for the round or disk shaped housing. Also, when electricity is oscillated above the ~ 100K Hz range (in which it becomes RF) the entire charge of ions only lays on the outer surface of the wire or conducting entity, there is no charge in the center whatsoever.

Cheers ..............Dango

element 115 does exist, but only for a very short time (decays too fast). I don't think you will get or need the distributor to spin at 6000K RPM.

100KHz x 60=6M RPM (Hz-seconds x 60 seconds to get minutes)

en.wikipedia.org... element 115

www.mufonla.com...

I'm very interested in building something Dango. This is something that I have been thinking about for a while. I haven't talked about it much. It is so hard to find anybody that is interested in this type of physics.

I have been thinking about using high voltage transistors to make a variable frequency inverter. If I make a 2 phase inverter then it is easier to configure the rotating fields. If I make two of the inverters then I could use one to produce high voltage to feed the plates for the electric field and the other to produce high current feed the coils for the magnetic field.

The parts I could mostly get from computer power supplies. The transistors on the high voltage side are made to switch about 250V very fast. I'm not sure if that is enough voltage to produce the effects that I'm expecting to see.

I have an IM but I'm at work most of the day. I'd like to see what your planing on Dango.

Originally posted by whatukno
Anyone ever thought of using a series of these rotating magnetic fields to launch a projectile? I wonder what would happen if you say put like 15 of them in a series and put some sort of slug in the middle.

This already exists.

It's called a rail gun and is V v v Dangerous.





Here is a vid of a rail gun in use.

Rail Gun

RailGuns are by far the most spectacular type of electromagnetic accelerators ever developed.

They hold the record for fastest object accelerated of a significant mass, for the 16000m/s firing of a .1 gram object by Sandia National Research Laboratories' 6mm Hypervelocity Launcher, and they can also propel objects of very sizeable masses to equally impressive velocities, such as in the picture to the left, where Maxwell Laboratories' 32Megajoule gun fires a 1.6kilogram projectile at 3300m/s (that's 9megajoules of kinetic energy!) at Green Farm research facility.

Their ability to propel objects at speeds which are simply impossible for conventional (chemical or mechanical) means makes them extremely useful for a range of functions.

The most obvious one being defense, where most of the research money in this area comes from nowadays, but NASA has also been funding RailGun research for hypervelocity impact simulations which will allow shields to be developed which will protect orbiting aircraft from high velocity debris surrounding the earth.

NASA is also researching the possibility of a launcher which would deliver payloads into orbit at a fraction of the cost of a rocket launch. Similarly, other studies are under progress for the utilization of RailGuns in Fusion Fuel pellet Injectors for experimental nuclear fusion reactors, and also for metallurgical bonding; the University of Texas (UT) in Austin, identified that the Electromagnetic Powder Deposition (by a railgun) process is capable of achieving a coating of deposit material with bond strength equal to the base material while achieving less than 3% porosity.

This should soon become a repair method for jet engine components, as similar processes are also being employed to produce extremely high shock pressures on collisions between dissimilar materials in an attempt to produce new materials.

www.powerlabs.org...

Says it all really in the above.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

[edit on 30-12-2006 by Neon Haze]

250volts will not be enough, I would go for 10KV-50KV. You could also leave the ignition coil and module intact and power it with a car battery charger and some big 5000uF filter capacitors. The RPM should be under 20K RPM and even then you must put low carbon synt. oil in the distributors bushing/bearing. I wouldn't think that RF high voltage is needed.

Originally posted by Neon Haze
This already exists.

It's called a rail gun and is V v v Dangerous.

Says it all really in the above.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

AWESOME! I want 2!

ok back on the OPT. Say you took this idea and you say made it into a sphere? Now make controll circutry that would fire off the magnets in series at an extremely high rate of fire. In essance keeping the material in the center hovering in the center and also rotating. (hard for an idiot like me to explain) What I think I am trying to explain is a fusion generator. But I don't have the scientific know how on what to do. I know you would need a Nickle Ferrous Core, and Somehow keep it molton. Also you would need to have the rest of the unit filled with helium (or is it neon?) and somehow chainge it into Hidrogen. By pulling off electrons using the magnets you would give yourself quite a lot of power. I think, I have no clue realy.