Why People That Have Opinions Are Ignorant. Deny Ignorance? Then, What is an opinion? Prejudice!

Right, some of those folks think kids suck their thumbs because their mother's breast are too big and their penises aren't big enough.

Long story short - that's what we call self-positioned expertise. Otherwise known as - an opinion (with your very own mentioned ego mixed in). As for the rest of us, who just have an ordinary opinion without the ego or self-aggrandized expert label (or the peer review which consists of a review by peers also self-aggrandizing their own opinion)...we just kind of form opinions and then go on from there.

EDIT: SPELL CHECK!

[edit on 11-24-2006 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
My doctrine degree is in discerning when some one is using opinion as fact

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher in the introductory post of the thread:
Of course, this is merely my stupid opinion, and i don't know if i can trust my opinion.

as fact? i'm sorry. i thought i covered that my opinion was not fact in the first introductory post.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher in the introductory post of the thread:
Of course, this is merely my stupid opinion, and i don't know if i can trust my opinion.

didn't you see it when you read it?

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher in the introductory post of the thread:
Of course, this is merely my stupid opinion, and i don't know if i can trust my opinion.

or perhaps just your eyes saw it, but your subconcious mind didn't permit you to be consiously aware of it, i guess. but, again this is just my opinion.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher in the introductory post of the thread:
Of course, this is merely my stupid opinion, and i don't know if i can trust my opinion.

Originally posted by Valhall
My doctrine degree is in discerning when some one is using opinion as fact

It's my opinion that your opinions stated here are nothing but that...opinion. Therefore I stand by my statements (which are my opinion) that I do not believe it takes either ego or fear to form an opinion.

So, do you have an opinion that you formed without fear or your ego?

And further to that, it is my opinion, that forming an opinion is in no way a sign of ignorance, but quite the contrary, the first step in the path to knowledge.

can you travel that path in two directions simultaneously?
always looking outward for the suppliments to your opinion?
then your older opinions become habits that become subliminal.
again, this is my opinion, so take it for what it is worth.
i say my opinion is worth nothing. Why do i say this? it must be worth nothing, because i give it away at the same price. nothing.

i said:
"then your older opinions become habits that become subliminal."
one example of this is some guy's salvating dog who's opinion said it was getting food every time a certain sound was made.

You are scared of something. You must be. Because all I'm pointing out is that the majority of the post you've made in this thread are posts formed in the fashion of statements of fact, when in fact they are opinion.

All I'm trying to do is point out that you are doing what you are speaking of. I really don't think there's anything to get upset about...unless you're scared about something, or have too much ego in this thread.

Esoteric, I will have to agree with Val, that opinions are not a sign of ignorance but rather the sign of an intelligent mind looking for the answers to make sense of their surroundings . . . like Val said. . . the first step in the path to knowledge.

Now, you have to understand that when opinions are made, thought and put into words or verbally expressed, depending the age of the person that has formed that opinion it will also be the quality of the opinion.

A person mature with age and with age also comes knowledge, experiences and the forming of opinions also become more mature because they are form with years of learned knowledge, compare to somebody that is much younger.

No, I will never agree that opinions are a sign of Ignorance.

Originally posted by Valhall
You are scared of something. You must be.

true. i am scared of something.
what does it mean to have no fear?

Here let me show you. Read yourself:

But, what you consider "logic" is still confined to the limitations of your genetics and thought processes. So, logically, unless you have "defragged" your mind at the genetic level, you have not made one purely logical observation, nor one logical choice, nor have you ever percieved consciously one logical experience.

most people when making a decision automatically see only two options to ask:
1) "How can this harm me and/or the things i love, and what are the possible consequences?"
2) "How can this benefit me and/or the things i love, and what potential rewards are in it for me?"

do to the dna of every cell that comprises every human, judgment of the conscious mind is constrained by the subconscious mind which makes behavioral tendencies become automatic responses. so every observation of every aspect of your conscious experience is only what your subconsious mind percieves, which only asks two relative questions, which is all the dna of every cell requires:

1) "How can this harm me and/or the things i love, and what are the possible consequences?"
2) "How can this benefit me and/or the things i love, and what potential rewards are in it for me?"

but the only data that is permitted to be turned into a conscious idea is the data that is compliant with "i am self before anything or anyone". And the law of association dictates our mind only consciously records and consciously retrieves what data is compliant with "self pre-serve".

The way the brain works is that you will not be consciously aware of what data is non-compliant with the objections your conscious mind (ego) creates. so, essentially it is 0.000000002% of your mind that is not permitting you to know 99.999999997% of the rest of the data.

but the initiation of peoples' logic started at "Self before is serve (anything or anyone)". And, logically, they have never journeyed within to re-write that initiator. so, their logic is still flawed as they do not have controll over their senses, they do not have control over their own data, nor have they ever had control over the overwhelming majority of their own thoughts. So, logically they do not know what logic is. Their first logic was the first cell of their being. what was the recorded information of your first cell that all other incoming information had to attach to?

without accessing incoming sensory information directly instead of the subconscious mind doing it before your conscious mind has access to it, you have never acquired first hand knowledge of anything. it is not you who have experienced anything first hand, it is the part of the mind you are not consciously aware of that has the first hand knowledge, not you.

how can you have first hand knowledge of anything when you have absolutley no first hand knowledge of any sensory input, ever.

you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever seen.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever heard.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever touched.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever smelled.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever tasted.

you have only had 0.000000002% of the second hand knowledge provided to you by your 99.999999997% of your mind you call your subconsious mind.

I ask you this...how is it possible to have an open discussion with you when you speak this way? Nothing that is said in the above quotes of your words are facts, but opinions - either your own or those of people who have decided to call themselves ones whose opinions should be taken as "the accepted thinking".

If you are going to talk to us like this, then there really is nothing else to say to you on this subject, now is there? You've made up your mind. You've skipped opinion and jumped to conclusion and closed book on the subject.

So, yes, any one with a differing opinion must be ignorant.

[edit on 11-24-2006 by Valhall]

Originally posted by marg6043
Esoteric, I will have to agree with Val, that opinions are not a sign of ignorance but rather the sign of an intelligent mind looking for the answers to make sense of their surroundings . . . like Val said. . . the first step in the path to knowledge.

an intelligent mind? intelligent of what? looking for the answers by looking at their surroundings? their not observing their surroundings! their subconsious mind is.

A person mature with age and with age also comes knowledge, experiences and the forming of opinions also become more mature because they are form with years of learned knowledge, compare to somebody that is much younger.

No, I will never agree that opinions are a sign of Ignorance.

and you say you will never agree that opinions are a sign of ignorance, without even knowing how to define or quantify what an opinion is?

so, it is your opinion that tells you that opinions will never be a sign of ignorance, and you make this statement without knowing what an opinion is consisted of?

sounds ignorant to me.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Well see, now you're just being mean. You're just being mean now.

That's not right

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

so, it is your opinion that tells you that opinions will never be a sign of ignorance, and you make this statement without knowing what an opinion is consisted of?

sounds ignorant to me.

Well Esoteric Teacher I guess that when you are in ATS with so many opinionated people you can not stand their ignorance, I wonder how can you stand all of us ignorant people.

But . . .That's your opinion and your have the right to it so I am done with your opinionated thread.

Originally posted by Valhall
I ask you this...how is it possible to have an open discussion with you when you speak this way?

I answer you:
discredit the world's neuro-sciences and their doctors and scientists.

Nothing that is said in the above quotes of your words are facts, but opinions - either your own or those of people who have decided to call themselves ones whose opinions should be taken as "the accepted thinking".

so, it is up to me to discredit the world's neuro-sciences and their doctors and scientists? thanks for the help.

If you are going to talk to us like this, then there really is nothing else to say to you on this subject, now is there? You've made up your mind.

i don't believe i have made up my mind. i believe i am questioning the world's neuro-sciences' fields and their doctors and their scientists.

You've skipped opinion and jumped to conclusion and closed book on the subject.

if all the words were in that book, and the book was closed already, then how are we still adding words to a closed book?

So, yes, any one with a differing opinion must be ignorant.

Originally posted by Valhall
I don't believe an opinion is a prejudice. Nor do I believe it is a sign of ignorance. And lastly, I do not believe either ego or fear has to be involved in forming an opinion.

you do not believe fear has to be involved in forming an opinion?

do you have one cell in your body not programmed with "self preservation"?

i ask this because if not, every cell in your being does have fear programmed into it as well.

so, do you still believe that fear does not need to be involved in forming an opinion, or are you not utilizing any cells altogether when forming an opinion?

Okay, then I'll repeat, that I believe having an opinion is the first step in the logic process. If we only take in data and do nothing with it then we are not intelligent processing human beings.

Again, my opinion is that having an opinion is about as healthy as you can be in the realm of a functioning human being.

The only way I see this response really going anywhere is if you're willing to form an opinion of your own and discuss it as an alternative possiblity to my opinion.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher


do you have one cell in your body not programmed with "self preservation"?

Yes! Yes I do. And I'm praying you find yours. Yes...and I'm not kidding. I can name every cell in my body that is not a self-preservationist cell. Not being scared of your own mortality can really set you free. I'm not important enough to put my own preservation above others - or the truth. I'm serious.

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, then I'll repeat, that I believe having an opinion is the first step in the logic process. If we only take in data and do nothing with it then we are not intelligent processing human beings.

i assure you we are in agreement. i'm just trying to say that the how and why are not the same. we are in agreement Vallhall. but not for the same reasons. your why, and your how, are different from my why and my how. i see your why and i see your how. can you see my why and my how?

Again, my opinion is that having an opinion is about as healthy as you can be in the realm of a functioning human being.

but if a person with selfish intentions has an opinion and a person without selfish intentions has an opinion are they both equally healthy? i think not.

The only way I see this response really going anywhere is if you're willing to form an opinion of your own and discuss it as an alternative possiblity to my opinion.

i can only assume what it is i'm trying to convey must be experienced. i try to find the words, trust me. i do try to find the words.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher



but if a person with selfish intentions has an opinion and a person without selfish intentions has an opinion are they both equally healthy? i think not.

NO! They are not equally healthy. I think not as well. No, a motivated opinion versus a data-based opinion is not the same...and the former is the inferior (and the more dangerous - and the more ignorant).

I think we are now coming together.

there are only two options.

1) do what you think is right, and die. nothing you love is threatened. do you die?
2) do what will ensure you survive.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher


do you have one cell in your body not programmed with "self preservation"?

Yes! Yes I do. And I'm praying you find yours. Yes...and I'm not kidding. I can name every cell in my body that is not a self-preservationist cell. Not being scared of your own mortality can really set you free. I'm not important enough to put my own preservation above others - or the truth. I'm serious.

i think we've had similiar experiences. and i know you are not kidding. and i thank you for the prayers. and, i have been set free. i found other senses, they were buried in my mind. they must have been, because they are real.

i had a rough tour the last time i was deployed to iraq. i proved to myself in actions and behaviors that i would do the right thing. i don't recall any anxiety, fear, or anything like that. i stood there with 6 hellfire missiles at my feet and fought the fire. what ever happened happened, and i had accepted that without regret. i was not afraid, and furthermore i knew i was not afraid. and when i was not afraid, a lot opened up within me. things i had not consciously dealt with, because i did not consciously know them. people can fear their strengths and their powers without even being consciously aware of their true strengths and powers. people can fear having other senses besides the 5 people know of. but, once that fear is gone, then there is no fear of those other senses. a person's perception changes so radically they instantaneously know everything everything they had previously been supressing throughout their lives without even ever being consciously aware that they were even doing it. do you know what it is i'm talking about Valhall? do you know what it is to only fear what not being afraid really means? do you know how others without fear abuse their strengths and powers to "control" (*influence is a better word) the actions and behaviors of others?

does this better explain why i have authored this thread?

i have endured moments when i was doing the right thing with total disregard of self, and now i'm seeking out others who have also done this to ask them what it means to them. this is a real thing for me.

it is not my opinion any more. it is my truth. and my truth is:
"what does it mean to fear nothing, and to also not be afraid of nothing?"

no opinion can answer me out of experience, because, yes, i have never witnessed an opinion being formed that was not influenced by the knowledge of knowing fear.

does this make sense to you?

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher



but if a person with selfish intentions has an opinion and a person without selfish intentions has an opinion are they both equally healthy? i think not.

NO! They are not equally healthy. I think not as well. No, a motivated opinion versus a data-based opinion is not the same...and the former is the inferior (and the more dangerous - and the more ignorant).

I think we are now coming together.

i think we are coming together as well. a shared opinion.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
do you know what it is to only fear what not being afraid really means?

does this make sense to you?

Yes and yes. But the experience I had was a totally different one than yours, so I'm considering the two (yours being in a human-against-human environment and mine being in a human-against-nature environment) may have resulted in different long-term psyche changes. I'm postulating that anyway and kind of sitting here thinking hmmmmm.

I'll ponder on this some more.

You've given me a few things to ponder as well. I probably won't be on ATS for 3 days, but i will be back later.

over the course of the last couple years my mind has exponentially been "seeing" more and more angles of any subject. my "opinion" is not what my "opinion" used to be. my opinion now is often i can't choose one side as being better or more right over another side of the issue. i seriously "see" multiple angles as being correct and can justify my thoughts rather well, in my "opinion".

i'd like to leave you for a few days with one underlining thought that in my opinion is not my opinion. i have just not experienced anything in my life that can disprove this, and what i have experienced tells me it is more than an opinion. it is like truth becomes an emotion, hard to explain. but here is my thought (aside from what does it mean to have no fear):

how can we be concsiously aware of anything when our conscious mind recieves no sensory input, except from our subconscious mind, of which we are not consciously aware of?