Judge Rules Couple Can Not Smoke In Their Own Home

Originally posted by sardion2000
But why ban it on the property? They should at least allow them to smoke on their balconies.

WHAT? And have that evil cigarette smoke mingling with others BBQ smoke?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by sardion2000
But why ban it on the property? They should at least allow them to smoke on their balconies.

WHAT? And have that evil cigarette smoke mingling with others BBQ smoke?

Yeah, it makes so much sense that you gotta know that they won't like it one bit. I really hate Condo associations. Hell, I really really hate Condos period.

Well its about time second hand smoking is starting to get abolished straight from home! A liability for our future generations childrens children who will live longer, healthier lives. Excellent.

Originally posted by 7Ayreon
Well its about time second hand smoking is starting to get abolished straight from home! A liability for our future generations childrens children who will live longer, healthier lives. Excellent.

REALLY? Well, I'm a smoker and I smoke OUTSIDE, even at home, in the worst weather. So, what's your point?

Most condos have a Strata Council that votes on subjects to make amendments to the contracts and strata agreements. It's part of what you pay into and when doing so you have to expect that at some point council might adopt a new policy.

It's raised some concerns here in canada as well...over ruled every time because of the "contract" one signs when they buy into a condominium complex and agree to the terms (all terms) of the Strata agreement.

Buyer Beware. They can and do implement amendments (which BTW is a LEGAL process) and it does go to a vote within the community and council of the building(s).

People buy into a controlled system, knowing it's a controlled system. They get what they pay for and now when a policy is put in place that they don't like...

I suppose they wouldn't argue if the Strata was amended to state that no wind chimes were allowed? Or unleashed dogs...or music after 10PM...or broken down cars parked in the underground...or tacky lawn ornaments displayed...or things hanging in the windows...

The mentality of most who buy into condo life KNOW and do so BECAUSE it is controlled...one of those exclusive club deals really...like a gated community.

They will lose the case. They signed a contract and the law assumes that when doing so you have full knowledge and understanding of that contract.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by 7Ayreon
Well its about time second hand smoking is starting to get abolished straight from home! A liability for our future generations childrens children who will live longer, healthier lives. Excellent.

REALLY? Well, I'm a smoker and I smoke OUTSIDE, even at home, in the worst weather. So, what's your point?

My point is to those who smoke in the house with there children in the house. No offense to you, thank you.

The condo I live in, you can only display an American flag. No other nationalities are permitted. It's never been challenged to my knowledge.

Re the mackerel. Hehe, that's funny. I don't know what my neighbor cooks, but I'd be happy to get the recipe and send it to those smokers. Their neighbors would be begging them to stop cooking and start smoking again, I guarantee you.

[edit on 18-11-2006 by jsobecky]

Yikes - that's just fascist. I'd be smoking DRUGS on the balconey and cooking mackeral while I cured my bear hide in the common hallway.

Heh

ROFL id move, but id rent out my condo to college kids....particularly 21yo males who i KNOW would have big stereos and drink a lot.

is my cig really so bad afterall? hehehe

Good. They signed a paper that stated all the stipulations they have to agree to in order to live there. It also includes the fact that they can change the rules whenever they want.

If you do not like it, buy a house. Finally we are moving closer to a smoke-free society.

jtma508 and justgeneric, good responses! Its important to remember that this isn't a detached house. Its a condo. I see this kind of thing in new york all the time. A friend of mine didn't get into a co-op he was trying to buy because the board didn't want artists. (even though he was a commercial artist.) I am not allowed to smoke in my place, although it is a rental. I have heard a few times of people being forced to limit their choice of cooking style because of offensive odors. Many places have rules on how late or loud you can play music.

In any case, its not facist. When you buy into a co-op or condo you have to limit your lifestyle in a way that it doesn't impinge on your neighbors. That's the deal.

Imagine you had a 7 year old daughter with asthma and the smoke from your cigar loving neighbors was increasing the severity and frequency of her attacks. Sure, they are smoking in the privacy of their apartment. But the whole argument that makes "behind closed doors" normally so acceptable hinges on the premise that it then does not impact anyone elses lives. Kinky sex or a huge snake collection can be kept private. Smoking behind closed doors doesn't mean much as the closed door doesn't hold back the smoke.

Whose rights are more important? The people who want to smoke or the non-smokers who are forced to smell cigarette smoke whenever they are at home?

I am so sick of non-smokers and their whining.

The whole entire world smoked everyday, all day, at work, at home, at the damn supermarket...

and as soon as I start smoking, all the rules change!

Now, it's about 'the kids.' Well, where can I go where there aren't any kids?

Shoot, I don't drive, but I have to breathe in all of your exhaust.

but I have to breathe in all of your exhaust.

That gives me an idea. Besides bulky masks to filter toxins, there should be a more comfortable and affective technology inserted in the throat or wareabouts to syphen out all and only safe breathable scents and oxygen.

But than there is another problem. Eating. How do we get by that?

[edit on 18-11-2006 by 7Ayreon]

Well thankfully harlemhottie, society is actually making an attempt to find alternative fuels, create more fuel efficient and less polluting automobiles.

the only thing smokers are doing are trying to make excuses to justify their self-destructive nature and clear apathy to the welfare and comfort of other people's lives.

Hey if you want to create a society that i sall smokers that can do whatever you want, by all means do it. It will not last long.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
ARMAP :

I concur, this is an obvious case of “ read the dammed small print “

The HOA charter will undoubtedly clearly state that all by-laws it enacts are binding, even ones passed AFTER you move in.
I am not privy to the exact charter of this particular HOA, but my friend has lived in one for over 5 years now, and in hers a 75% majority vote has to be cast in favour of any changes to their constitution.

If this is so cut and dried and above board then why did it end up in court? Just because these people are unreasonable and they tried to overturn what most would argue as being reasonable?

I'll bet there is not another place on the face of the earth where such a rule has been passed nor enforced.

Hello POLICE STATE!!

Originally posted by DYepes
society is actually making an attempt to find alternative fuels, create more fuel efficient and less polluting automobiles.

Uh... yeah... you might want to repeat that bit about alternative fuels to Pinky and the Brain in the White House.

But, then again, it's because of those squatters at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. that people, like those on the condo board, think the erosion of our civil liberties is okay.

Someone did bring up the Christmas tree thing. There is a lot of intolerance rulings going on. Folks, this isn't a perfect world. Everywhere you walk it isn't going to smell like rose petals. The world is full of different smells. You could be walking out in the woods taking in the fresh air, then come upon a pile of bear crap. Are we going to complain about the bear crap in the woods, then relocate the bear, or make the bear eat something different? I understand asthma problems and stuff, and those are certainly things to consider, but some of this intolerance is going to the extremes. If I don't like the smell of corn dogs at the fair, do we stop the fair from selling corn dogs just for me? Give people a little room to be who they want to be. Now if what they chose to be does cause a "real" problem then that should be addressed, otherwise, there needs to be some room for tolerance. Don't blow things up into problems if they really aren't.

Troy

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
I am so sick of non-smokers and their whining.

Well, I get sick because of the smokers.

Have you ever needed to go to the hospital because you couldn't breath? Take one or two cortisone shots, and stay for 2, 3, 4 or maybe more hours breathing oxygen and Ventolin (I think this is the name used in the US) through a mask until you feel strong enough to walk?

That is why I do not like people smoking next to me, I have been through this some times since I was 5 years old, and frankly, I hate it.

Even if I do not need to go to the hospital, the least I have to do is to take a stronger dose of Ventolin, that makes my heart reach some 120 beats per minute and weakens my immunities.

Shoot, I don't drive, but I have to breathe in all of your exhaust.

I don't drive either, but the difference is that the fumes from the cars, buses, etc. is the result of something working, not the result of someone just passing time with a completely useless thing like smoking.

Of course I would rather live in a world without any pollution, I feel the difference when I go to Lisbon, the pollution there is much worse than where I live, in Almada.



Back on topic.

This case was taken to court because the couple of smokers filled a lawsuit against the HOA, saying that they were not being reasonable.

The judge reach the conclusion that what the HOA said was true, that:

cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

and because smoke and smoke smell cannot be contained, it really "constitutes a nuisance."

The rules of the condo say that "nuisances are not allowed", so smoking was not allowed.

Once again, people must know what they are doing when they sign any thing.
In this case, maybe they thought that a nuisance was earing the neighbour singing in the shower and never thought that they could be a nuisance to other people while they were smoking.

Did the HOA over-reacted to the complains about the smoke? Maybe, but they have the power to take decisions like that and turn them into (condo) laws.

In the same way as the "smoking couple" can complain about something else, and, if they have a majority, they can turn something they want into a new condo regulation.

seems to me that a enterprise opportunity is presenting itself.!!

since the judge set a precident, then a lot of other communities will use that court decision as a basis for their own legal action against their neighbors...

if one was astute enough, one could use the idea of creating a home shelter area
that shields against gas or biological agents from terrorist attacks....
into a Dual Purpose Retrofit!

#1: You could smoke in your 'sealed' living space
and not disturb the surrounding environment (neighbors)

#2: You would take advantage of any tax adjustments that
installing a 'home survival shelter' might have.


#3: As a result, one could happily smoke in their personal biosphere
and still be smoking after those pesky neighbors got anthraxed or nervegassed
by terrorists, or evacuated after some toxic agents got into their houshold possessions ..,

adapt or perish



[edit on 19-11-2006 by St Udio]

Originally posted by Shaktimaan


Whose rights are more important? The people who want to smoke or the non-smokers who are forced to smell cigarette smoke whenever they are at home?

Those questions are redundant. It's been 20 years since smokers have had ANY rights. The non-smoking lobby is even dictating to business owners how to run their businesses and those go out of business because they were patroned by smokers. But that's OK, those businesses were smoke free just in case a non-smoker wanted to go there.