Are Cops really just legally hired thugs??

My friend and I were talking the other day and he was telling me how he recently got a $46 ticket for jaywalking. He insisted that cops are basically legal thugs hired by the state and I couldn't really disagree with him.

Sure there has been a couple times in my life where I faked calling the cops to gain a psychological advantage in some situation.... but for the most part I've never really needed them. I've never been bothered by a terrorist. The worst a terrorist has done is delayed me at the airport because I had to remove my shoes and stand in a long line.

Cops? Well I have gotten numerous speeding tickets. I was physically pushed around by one when I was in high school. I was only watching an after school fight (no participation). I've had them make me pour beer out. I've jaywalked before and had one run up and grab me by the arm and threaten to ticket me. They are a constant pain and very little help.

I can see the use for military forces. They serve a great purpose. FBI, CIA, etc... yup they serve purpose too. But cops?? Basically thugs who take your money. The truth is I'm a better driver at 75mph than many people are at 60mph. Out of the 5 traffic infractions I've received since getting my license well over a decade ago, 2-3 of them were just picky cops trying to meet a quota and steal my money for the gov't! The gov't steals our hard earned money in a variety of ways but cops are a bit invasive.

I think they should redefine the police as the dept of assistance. Right now it's like a dept of bullies and thieves!

I'd also like to add that this thread wasn't just started because of a few personal experiences or one conversation with a friend. There is also evidence in the media that police are going overboard.

See this thread

Recently UCLA police tasered a guy who didn't show ID and was in the library. I'm sorry I know that the guy should have followed directions, but I know enough about physical confrontations to know that 3 men can easily and rapidly subdue 1 person (unless that person has incredible strength or highly advanced training). No need to taser him. Tasers have been known to induce heart attacks in some people.

Any organised group with guns and ammo is basically a bunch of thugs and gangstas

Cops, military, terrorists, gangs.

They all have a purpose and they use guns, etc. to fullfill them

But if you think US cops are bad. You should experience an Indian cop.

Its pretty silly to say that you've never 'used' the cops. Just becaue you haven't called them when someone broke into your home doesn't mean that there is no point to having police around. Who else would you call but the police in such a situation? And, of course, the police act as a deterrent against crime.

The police aren't 'government thugs'. They are bound by the law, and they have people that oversee their actions. Thugs aren't bound by any laws or any authority.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Its pretty silly to say that you've never 'used' the cops. Just becaue you haven't called them when someone broke into your home doesn't mean that there is no point to having police around. Who else would you call but the police in such a situation? And, of course, the police act as a deterrent against crime.

The police aren't 'government thugs'. They are bound by the law, and they have people that oversee their actions. Thugs aren't bound by any laws or any authority.

To tell you the truth, I have never ever had to call police for anything yet. I know they are helpful in such situations. But we are talking about the responsibilities that come with such power. Lot of cops misuse it. Some cops who are just having a bad day can take it out on someelse. There could be many reasons. Cops are human too. They have feeling. They might have racial, religious preference, etc. Which is an unsettling thought.

Yea, they are all just thugs!

Get rid of em all!

Who needs law enforcement!?!

Who needs someone to respond to a deadly situation!?!

Who needs a deterrent to crime!?!

Next time you have an emergency call the local gang bangers for help.

Its pretty silly to say that you've never 'used' the cops.

Who needs a deterrent to crime!?!

Yeah I know I know.... we do need law enforcement otherwise people would go wild. So I conceed we need them for psychological reasons. I won't deny that if a gang of thugs came knocking on my apartment that it makes me feel secure to know I can call the police. The point is that a gang of thugs has never knocked on my door.

So yes I rely on the psychological mindset of the public thinking "no I can't steal Scramjet's belongings or cause him physical harm otherwise there will be consequences."

I'm just saying that in the real world I've never really needed the cops. I've totalled a car before in the middle of a highway and I got out of the car and started flagging traffic. The only thing the cop did was write me a ticket and give me and my friend a lift home (which was nice of him).

Where are the cops when you really need one (other than for a ride after your car is toast)? I remember one time I went dancing with a friend of mine and all her friends. The club was in a sketchy area of town (so one would think there would be more cops on patrol-nope!) and when we came out of the club her honda civic had been stolen. We called the police and waited for an hour before an officer showed up to take a report. Then we took a taxi home. Where were they? While there were tons of people ripping out of the club parking area, smashing glass in the streets, there was not a cop to be found. But they are everywhere come monday morning writing tickets to commuters who are driving 10 mph over the speed limit!

I guess you get what you pay for............and doesn't seem like I'm paying for much. I can only hope that my assumptions regarding the psychological impact of the concept of police to be correct. Otherwise I'd get beat up and my car would get stolen every day right? I guess that makes me feel a bit better.

As with any occupation there are bound to be those who abuse their power. Police are human beings down to the fiber as are you and I, subject to temptation, corruption,and just plain bad decision making. The occupation itself could be classified as stressful to say the least, andsome people handle it better than others. Are there police that never should have been allowed to serve, of course. Are there politicians, doctor's, priests as well ?

I do however believe that the law enforcement community is a brotherhood, and attrocities go unchalleneged, incidents of abuse covered up. The system is to blame, the "higher up's" are to question, they hold the task to enforce policies and make credible investigations.

There are good cops and bad. you know who you are.

Originally posted by _DISAVOWED_
As with any occupation there are bound to be those who abuse their power. Police are human beings down to the fiber as are you and I, subject to temptation, corruption,and just plain bad decision making. The occupation itself could be classified as stressful to say the least, andsome people handle it better than others. Are there police that never should have been allowed to serve, of course. Are there politicians, doctor's, priests as well ?

I do however believe that the law enforcement community is a brotherhood, and attrocities go unchalleneged, incidents of abuse covered up. The system is to blame, the "higher up's" are to question, they hold the task to enforce policies and make credible investigations.

There are good cops and bad. you know who you are.

Agreed!

However, I do think the "brotherhood" thing is less and less prevalent these days because there is always someone that will "blow the whistle".

One thing we all have to remember is that police are under a great deal of pressure. For example: In a deadly force situation the criminals just shoot while the police have to take several factors into consideration before they can fire and it all has to happen in a split second. If you make a threatening move expect to be shot!

Scramjet, why go into an obviously bad area at night and expect the police to have your back? Don't you think the reason you're not seeing them is because they are too busy responding to other calls? If the area is that bad I'm sure they are kept quite busy handling all sorts of crime.

I do think there are areas that cops avoid but I think it has more to do with people not taking responsibility. If nobody ever talks and everyone hates the cops it tends to turn them off to certain areas. Yes, they should still do their job regardless but if you are not welcome in an area and nobody is pushing you to go there, odds are you wont. Although, if police have a predetermined patrol route I would think they have to drive down each street so many times a night.

I just can't point fingers at the police as I'm not in their shoes nor would I want to be.

Scramjet, why go into an obviously bad area at night and expect the police to have your back?

Uhh... because the area is "bad" like you stated. Do you believe the cops should patrol neighborhoods of low crime and law abiding citizens?

Don't you think the reason you're not seeing them is because they are too busy responding to other calls?

Very true. And what you said about taking responsibility is true. I was with a friend who really wanted to go dancing and it was either take my NSX (which I wasn't going to do) or take her honda civic (which is a perennial choice for thieves). Her and I both know better but we just wanted to go out and have some fun.

Just frustrating to have to wait so long for an officer to even take a report (the car turned up like 3 weeks later).... while I see them every day nailing people doing 12 mph over or harrassing some 18 year old kid for strolling down the sidewalk with a joint in his hand.

All I know is that alot of police officers wind up police officers because they are young (perhaps fresh out of military) and their mindset is "good" vs "evil" and they are going to join up with the "good" to kick some ass. I mean we do pay officers quite well and working for local gov't I know that they are unaffected by budget cuts like many other departments. They have a good job and if they don't like it then they can go to college or trade school and do something else like the rest of us. As long as they are on the streets, I'm in favor of less "harrassment" and more effort in nailing the real crooks.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
I remember one time I went dancing with a friend of mine and all her friends. The club was in a sketchy area of town (so one would think there would be more cops on patrol-nope!) and when we came out of the club her honda civic had been stolen. We called the police and waited for an hour before an officer showed up to take a report. Then we took a taxi home. Where were they? While there were tons of people ripping out of the club parking area, smashing glass in the streets, there was not a cop to be found. But they are everywhere come monday morning writing tickets to commuters who are driving 10 mph over the speed limit!

I guess you get what you pay for............and doesn't seem like I'm paying for much. I can only hope that my assumptions regarding the psychological impact of the concept of police to be correct. Otherwise I'd get beat up and my car would get stolen every day right? I guess that makes me feel a bit better.

My guess is that they were out trying to catch drunk drivers. No, I am not trying to argue the cops were out nabbing people who drank several shots of whiskey and were swerving around like maniacs. They were trying to nab that one person, who is otherwise law abiding, that may make one minor "mistake" which will give the cops the pretense to pull him over and test him for alcohol consumption. Once they nab they get their guy, if he is just slightly over the legal limit, that person will have to pay thousands of dollars in fines. Catching people who have had enough alcohol in them to be over the legal limit on a Friday or Saturday night when the bars close is like catching fish in a barrel.

Going after thieves and hooligans on the other hand is rough work. This might put the cops at danger. It is also difficult to catch a thief and would require the cops to do police work or something. The possibility of making money of citing someone in such a situation is small compared to the goldmine of nabbing a "drunk" driver, makes it obvious as to why the cops did not help you in your situation.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
All I know is that alot of police officers wind up police officers because they are young (perhaps fresh out of military) and their mindset is "good" vs "evil" and they are going to join up with the "good" to kick some ass. I mean we do pay officers quite well and working for local gov't I know that they are unaffected by budget cuts like many other departments. They have a good job and if they don't like it then they can go to college or trade school and do something else like the rest of us. As long as they are on the streets, I'm in favor of less "harrassment" and more effort in nailing the real crooks.

So many points to discuss in your posts, but this really sticks out. Do you really consider what a cop gets paid (base rate) is a lot of money? Esp. for what they have to deal with everyday? And the statement that they are not affected by budget cuts is just flat out wrong.

Putting all that aside, what changes would you make in the police force, if you were in charge?

Compared to what the *average* person has in America, cops have it alright. There salary is average, even if you do not take into consideration many cops have little education. Furthermore, cops have full benefits and job security. Compared to someone who works at Walmart with no benefits, being a cop is not a bad job afterall.

I consider an average person to be occupied as a computer tech, or nurse or similar. Ad they don't put their lives on the line like a cop does. Cops also do not have job security; they are victims of budget cuts the same as any city worker.

Just like with lawyers, salesmen, and politicians, 99% of cops make the rest look bad.

And the statement that they are not affected by budget cuts is just flat out wrong.

I can't tell you for certain but I work for a city of 100,000 people. And the Police and Fire budgets are the absolute last budgets to get slashed in a crunch because they are essential services. Believe me... we went through a budget crisis a couple years ago and police and fire were unaffected. Fortunately my group wasn't affected either since I'm on the general budget with deals with sewer and water services. Water is essential too.

Do you really consider what a cop gets paid (base rate) is a lot of money?

Well yes and no. I mean we live in a society where we pay the people who teach the next generation of humans 30-50k per year and we pay athletes millions.... so yes our society is a victim of it's own design in one sense! However, police officers where I live make about $60k per year and have excellent benefits. You don't need an education to be a police officer and those types of people get what they want. They don't want to file papers....they want to cruise around in a car and intimidate and enforce laws. That's just what type of personality they are and they get that in their job so I think they're fairly well compensated yes.

Going after thieves and hooligans on the other hand is rough work. This might put the cops at danger.

Very true. Honestly, I don't want anyone to get hurt... but I also didn't force those people to be cops. They did that on their own freewill.

Just like with lawyers, salesmen, and politicians, 99% of cops make the rest look bad.

Yeah that's true. And in their defense, people often discount the psychological impact it must have on the mind to deal with troublemakers on a regular basis.

Honestly I think society would just function better if everyone didn't always go "by the books." Everyone has heard the phrase "rules are meant to be broken." Apply that to a little common sense and you get the answer. I think cops could take a page out of the ol' book of catch phrases... I understand that they are bound by laws but there's no reason to resort to jaywalking tickets. I mean someone is either going to choose to wait for the crosswalk signal or not. Giving them a ticket does nothing but harrass otherwise decent citizens. And tasering someone in a student library for not showing ID is simply not necessary. [/

Originally posted by jsobecky
I consider an average person to be occupied as a computer tech, or nurse or similar. Ad they don't put their lives on the line like a cop does. Cops also do not have job security; they are victims of budget cuts the same as any city worker.

1. How many cops really put their lives on the line? Last time I checked, handing out b.s. tickets to good citizens is not exactly dangerous work.

2. The job security of a cop is way above that of a worker in corporate America. Corporations these days are constantly reorganizing, downsizing, and outsourcing. This gives the average employee in America the expectation that they will only be working at their current job for 2-7 years. They can also expect to be moved from city to city. People that work for the city can reasonably expect a steady income for 20+ years, live in the same city and have full benefits.

Originally posted by Scramjet76

And the statement that they are not affected by budget cuts is just flat out wrong.

I can't tell you for certain but I work for a city of 100,000 people. And the Police and Fire budgets are the absolute last budgets to get slashed in a crunch because they are essential services.

That makes perfect sense. They are essential services and should be the last to be cut. But budget decisions have a much bigger impact on small towns. I know of small towns that cannot fund police on the midnight shift, and have to rely on the state police for coverage during those hours. And I know of quite a few volunteer fire departments.

Do you really consider what a cop gets paid (base rate) is a lot of money?

Well yes and no. I mean we live in a society where we pay the people who teach the next generation of humans 30-50k per year and we pay athletes millions.... so yes our society is a victim of it's own design in one sense!

One is a public worker, the other a private employee. Hard to compare.

However, police officers where I live make about $60k per year and have excellent benefits. You don't need an education to be a police officer and those types of people get what they want. They don't want to file papers....they want to cruise around in a car and intimidate and enforce laws. That's just what type of personality they are and they get that in their job so I think they're fairly well compensated yes.

How can you make such irresponsible statements about their motives?:shk:

Honestly I think society would just function better if everyone didn't always go "by the books." Everyone has heard the phrase "rules are meant to be broken." Apply that to a little common sense and you get the answer. I think cops could take a page out of the ol' book of catch phrases... I understand that they are bound by laws but there's no reason to resort to jaywalking tickets. I mean someone is either going to choose to wait for the crosswalk signal or not. Giving them a ticket does nothing but harrass otherwise decent citizens. And tasering someone in a student library for not showing ID is simply not necessary.

Writing jaywalking tickets is an infinitesmally small part of their jobs. How about wrestling with some AIDS junkie who is trying to scratch you and spit on you?

As for the taser incident, those were university police. And the kid was a jerk; he deserved what he got.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
1. How many cops really put their lives on the line? Last time I checked, handing out b.s. tickets to good citizens is not exactly dangerous work.

Not everyone is a "good citizen". There are many instances of cops being killed on routine traffic stops.

Every cop that's out on patrol puts his life on the line, every day.

2. The job security of a cop is way above that of a worker in corporate America. Corporations these days are constantly reorganizing, downsizing, and outsourcing. This gives the average employee in America the expectation that they will only be working at their current job for 2-7 years. They can also expect to be moved from city to city. People that work for the city can reasonably expect a steady income for 20+ years, live in the same city and have full benefits.

One is public sector, the other is private sector. You cannot compare one-to-one.

Cops can and do die while on the job, but every job has some element of risk. Doctors and nurses can and do catch diseases from patients, but we do not necessarily call them brave heroes. Coal miners and crab fisherman have the most hazardous jobs of all, yet we do not call them heroes. Many people die indirectly from their jobs because their jobs subject them to high levels of stress.

You are right in that public sector and private sector jobs are completely different ball games. Public sector employees have luxuries like job security, pensions, and benefits packages that many public sector employees could not dream of.

As much as I like to hate cops... the simple fact is that those of us who aren't trouble makers don't meet the good cops, because they don't bother us. We just see the bullies and the fat donut-eating pigs and assume they're all the same.