Iraqi Sniper[Sensitive Pictures]

well sometimes armour aint too effective at stopping high caliber rounds from sniper rifles so even with a bulletproof vest a body shot can be fairly fatal

In response to the question about how these men got their training, it's not really as complicated as flying a jet or something similar. If you get a sound grounding in the theory, all that remains is to practice a lot until your shots consistently fall where you want them to.

The Iraqis probably learned to shoot much the same way we Americans learn to shoot - first from our fathers, then by dilligent practice.

Just sayin'...

As far as mounting a camera on a rifle, it's not something that only an Israeli can do. Let's be realistic...

I reackon its an american.
Someone along the same mental mind as highschool shooters...
He just cracked,

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I reackon its an american.
Someone along the same mental mind as highschool shooters...
He just cracked,

I suggest you be quiet if you have nothing else to add on this subject. Take the anti-American crap to somewhere else that is appropriate.

What on earth would lead you to believe it's an American?

I'm really curious...

Sorry but thats my opinion about this sniper.

Im not saying Arabs CANT be brilliant..

but look at this video... an arab on the roof top with a sniper rifle would stand out eveantually.

99% of Americans are decent hearted balanced people.

But what are your addolescent that go on highschool rampages?

Had quiet a few of them of late, whats to say someone with the same maniacal tendancies wasnt encouraged to join....

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I reackon its an american.
Someone along the same mental mind as highschool shooters...
He just cracked,

I suggest you be quiet if you have nothing else to add on this subject. Take the anti-American crap to somewhere else that is appropriate.

No anitamerican thoughts here mate, just my honest feelings.
Watching that video something says to me its an american...

Not of the common balanced americans.. but of the raping and murdering, highschool rampage pool of americans.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

No anitamerican thoughts here mate, just my honest feelings.
Watching that video something says to me its an american...

I'm sorry, how does it tell you that its an American sniper thats shooting? Based on what?

Dunno, cant I have a feeling?
Cant I look through news paper articles of the sorts of haneous acts a small % of your community commits against each other..
then believe there's a chance that this sniper.. happens to be one of those unstable people?

There's a chance isnt there?

The way the video moves in perfect sync with the rifle.
smooth footage.. always on american positions.

Not immediatley hiding as soon as the shot is taken... i mean an arab on the roof with a rifle would stand out wouldnt it.

Sorry if ya dont like feelings..

Agit8dChop,

Remember the al Qaeda beheading videos, the burning Americans at Fallujah, the mass executions, the mass kidnappings?

I'd say it is far more likley that "an arab" pulled these shootings off.

That's just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Nothing Man

Originally posted by Reckon

I know this will bring up angry comments and emotions.
Try 2 put those fellings away for a moment and help me out with some quastions.
What kind of sniper do they use, and what precision does it have compared 2 the US snipers(wich one does the US use beside .50 cal).

Another quastion regarding the sniper tactics, why do they only kill 1 when they have the precision 2 take down a group?
Baamm ! one leg shot another soldier tryes 2 help Baaam! 2 kills.

I know the iraqi use Russian made weapones, is it only Russian weapones they use?

Iraqi snipers (cowards) primarily use anything they can get their hands on. Rarely did our unit come across one (who we put down) with anything as lavish as an SV-98 or a Dragonov (yes, acquired via the Reds).

The US Armed Forces typically use what best suits their requirements (per branch) The Barrett is always fun, but "we guys" utilized the M21/ converted M25 (semi auto). It depends on the shooter's preference.

As far as your other question regarding "tactics" it is simple. The element of suprise for one, and not giving away your position, and two the psychological aspect....."Kill one man, terrorize a thousand." - nuff' said

P.S. I would'nt even GIVE the Iraqi insurgents the dignity of calling them "Sniper's"....our boys (and other nations respectfully) are TRAINED and observe military ethics.

I would agree they are not "cowards" so to say.. when you are a rebel you have to use rebel tactics ya know?

The best way the military combats these tactics is actually other sniper teams. That is, if a unit is bogged down from a sniper (usually they shoot from opposite directions multiple times as a team of 6, 2 shooters, 2 spotters, 2 drivers) they call in either air support or vacate the area while another sniper team moves in to take out the snipers. The worse thing the Iraqi snipers could do is actually run because of our tech to communicate air support would be there shortly and could fire on any fast moving car looking like a get away.

As far as casualties the number one killer is IEDs, a sniper can mangle a body but it still wont kill unless aimed very well. With our medical tech we can save many more then once possible in a war zone, we can vacate and care for injured soldiers much better. Snipers are not exactly efficient as far as killing but can take out soldiers and install a sense of fear and anxiety within troops if they come under constant attack.

It should also be noted the the US military has found (after killing or capturing snipers) that most snipers are actually Al Qaeda trained and more often or not apart of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Well trained snipers who use well founded techniques against our troops. Like our Vietnam where the Communist fought a proxy war against us, Iran is fighting a proxy in Iraq.

EDIT: To the guy who said it was an American shooting at Americans you have no basis for such a claim. Trained troops from all over the middle east come into Iraq to fight Americans, how is it surprising that sniper teams either move in on their own or are ordered there? It is well known the Iran and Syria and a few other Arab states have sent in trained military pros to train people to or kill Americans them selves.

[edit on 11/18/2006 by Rockpuck]

i think its pretty sick to shoot someone in front of kids like they did in a few clips, and also i noticed that they change clips like right after the shot so im guessing the shots arent as lethal as they want you to think but it still pisses me off that the us troops are there to help not to conquer yet they are getting shot at for trying to help

[edit on 18-11-2006 by blackhumvee113]

Originally posted by stumason
The backing music is rather annoying.

Are snipers that much of a problem? seems like an awful lot of guys getting shot. I assume most survive as they look like body shots. Assuming the guys are wearing armour, they just get winded and knocked down?

This is something I've asked myself aswell. I've seen the two Juba movies and I've noticed that you can't see any blood in any of these videos. In some you can even clearly see that the sniper misses (small puff of dust where the bullet hits right next to the guy) but the soldier drops down right away. Like some of the soldiers you see in tank turrets etc. However, some clearly hit dead center of the chest, and as far as I'm aware most body armour can't stop a direct hit from a rifle that way. It must be reinforced with ceramic tiles and such. So do anyone know how many are killed by these snipers?

What kind of range is the sniping done, is the snipers position known to others eg fellow Iraqis.

What kind of sniper do they use, and what precision does it have compared 2 the US snipers(wich one does the US use beside .50 cal).

Another quastion regarding the sniper tactics, why do they only kill 1 when they have the precision 2 take down a group?
Baamm ! one leg shot another soldier tryes 2 help Baaam! 2 kills.

I know the iraqi use Russian made weapones, is it only Russian weapones they use?

Reckon, first of all, I really hate watching videos like that, and I'll skip right over the typical and abundant nonsense.

First there seems to be a confusion here in distinguishing a marksman from a sniper.

A good marksman places solid, long range hits time and time again, but does not have the extensive sniper training, and is not able to function in a team.

Sniper training and resulting effectiveness varies greatly.

9 minute video shows a number of OK to good crews, but not real pros. In CNN bit the spotter talked to much, and did not communicate with the shooter effectively. The shooter was solid though, and zeroed out his assigned target from a sizable crowd.

A typical set up, a shooter, a spotter with a ranging scope, (note the horizontal scale 5 min in), and a video camcorder. In different clips video camera mounting varied. In some clips it looked like the camera was attached directly to the scope, and in some it looked like a directional mount.

In all of the clips the camera was affixed to vehicle. Notice occasional camera drift while ranging, heavy drift when the vehicle is in motion, and in one of the clips a typical gravel shake.

In all of the clips the rifle report was identical. It was big and with a heavy casing ejection. Camera shake is natural when the spotter is in such close proximity to the shooter.

The rifle is almost certain to be a 7.62X54R SVD for a number of reasons.

Semi-auto cycle, heavy report, fast ejection of a heavy casing, and range of over 300 meters.

7.62X39 AK47 round simply does not reach out farther then 300 meters. At best it is difficult to accurately shoot out to 300 meters with AK in the first place, and the round does not retain enough energy to defeat body armor.

5.45 round has a very distinctive report. It's a much lighter, faster, higher pressure round, and it was definitely not the round shot in the clips.

7.62X54R SVD is the only viable tool in Iraqi arsenal which can successfully engage targets over 300 meters.

why do they only kill 1 when they have the precision 2 take down a group?

No need to risk exposing their position. They just move.

Now to the important part.

The shooters appeared to be more experienced then the spotters. They tracked their targets naturally, with good timing. Most spotters were sloppy, and in the videos their voices sounded to young and excited.

The video clips them selves are not just propaganda pieces. They are confirmations of a successful attack which was ordered as a hit. Experienced snipers pick up a contract of sorts, go out on a hunt as mercenaries, and take young spotters as drivers and cameramen.

Both sniper and IED attacks are filmed and used as proof for payment.

Notice that spotters only seem to communicate target ID, and don't actually range their targets.

In sniper teams, it's the spotter who is in command of the shooter, and these clips sure look like it's the other way around.

This is something I've asked myself aswell. I've seen the two Juba movies and I've noticed that you can't see any blood in any of these videos.

War is not Hollywood. No squibs there. Most hits miss veins/arteries, and even when they are hit, most of the bleeding is internal. If a shoot is a bleeder, it takes some time for the blood to work its way through the gear, and most of it gets soaked up anyway.

A thigh bleeder will kill you just as good a COM or a head shot. It only takes longer. You got 15 minutes at best until you bleed out.

Well gee, because the gun is next to the camera maybe? The recoil can move the camera.

Let me show you something...

M40A1 is a BOLT action rifle specially designed for USMC, by USMC armorers at Quantico.

Note that the McMillan stock has no sling. Pros pack their rifles, they don't sling them.

Look at the scope. Even though it's a bad picture, it sure looks like the new Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-12x to me (1=1/4 moa) , which in 2006 replaced the Unertl 10x.

So unless an Iraqi sniper picked it up from one of our USMC snipers after putting him down, that rifle belonged to one of our own snipers.

When a sniper hunts another sniper down, a confirmed kill= the rifle of the dead sniper. In those pictures the only rifle is one from a USMC sniper.

The supposed shooter is not in any kind of a shooting position, and it looks like he took a torso hit from the right side. His door window is rolled up and is intact. The position of the driver shows a body in a defensive position, legs towards the right door. His window is cracked open and is intact, so it's another body hit. No clear shot entry, no exit. Windshield is intact, no broken glass debris on both rear right/front right seats, so the driver kill shot did not go through the glass, and both of the right windows must have been rolled down.

Judging by the corner window shatter pattern, I seriously have to doubt that it was shattered by a high velocity .308. There is literally a chunk of glass just laying on the back seat, just as if it was punched in with a rifle stock.

The camcorder is not fixed to the vehicle (looks like an Opel), it's just laying there on the back seat.

In any case, as I said earlier, it's the spotter who has the camera, and it's the shooter that does the shooting.

In this scenario the spotter is supposed to be the shooter as well, and the driver is just hanging around.

The rifle position looks completely placed. The supposed shooter is in the rear left seat, slumping to his right, the rifle is neatly positioned on the rear right side, muzzle down, stock leaning towards the door.

Sorry, no dead Iraqi sniper here.

Pictures are correctly marked 2006, during the climb of sniper-for-hire hits. Here's a more plausible scenario. USMC puts their counter sniping teams in the hot area, and they stalk traffic knowing that enemy fire comes from parked cars.

This car is parked on the street, boys are on the look out for cars with cameras, see one on the back seat, pop the passenger in the rear seat, the driver panics and tries to get out of the car, and he gets it too.

Sniper team is called in to check things out, they see the Fup, pop the corner window, place the rifle, and take a few shots for a win-win situation.

Please understand that I'm not being cynical here. Those two guys could have been innocent civilians, or they very well might have been scoping the place out with that very camera. Who knows. In any case, those pictures boosted morale of the boys in that patrol area, at least until the real sniper went out on another hunt. The cycle continues, damn it.



[edit on 18-11-2006 by iskander]

the M40A1 in question your talking about was actually nabbed from a deceased US marine sniper, it was on the internet a while ago, when a US sniping team then took down these pair. and they found the M40A1 in the car.

Thanks for the post, Iskander. I finally get the feeling that someone on this thread actually knows what they're talking about. Some good information even if I disagree with your POV on the war itself. And M6D -

the M40A1 in question your talking about was actually nabbed from a deceased US marine sniper, it was on the internet a while ago, when a US sniping team then took down these pair. and they found the M40A1 in the car.

Do you have a link for this? And can you prove that it's the same rifle, and not a plant? Because unless you can back this assertion up with some facts, I'm going with the guy who seems to know what he's talking about.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Yes they have body armor, however getting shot can sometimes knock you down but don't kill you, other times the snipers try to find gaps in the armor like your head.

This is an example...
www.youtube.com...

That was like watching something playing dead. Excellent.
Yea full on body shots...hit them where they're strongest...thats logical. Are there not some really high velocity ballistics that can breach the ceramic plate? I am a bit out of date on this stuff.....

Yea. I think the comments about skill in this post is right. A head shot a smaller target but a bit more serious more lethality. Body shot big target easier hit more survivable. Add to this the body armor.

Armored troops did not arrive yesterday, they have been there some time and yet the so called "snipers" are going for body shots. A lot of the vids seem to be shots with maximum target. The unarmored flanks, throat etc, are a real skill, like a head shot. A proper sniper would be doing this, surely?

Yes tactics would allow a casuality rather than a death to slow a patrol down. A case of looking after a "Man down." Where as a death would be "There is nothing we can do for him." This would allow the sniper to finish off the patrol like a Turkey shoot.

But no. These guys fire a shot and leg it outta there...or hide with the women and children.

Maybe the CTers think they are deliberately shooting the armored areas, at the orders of GWB as he is organising the whole thing. THe deaths are all the result of poor marksmanship...............................

Either way though someone getting hit in your unit, lethal or not would be unsettling and not just within that unit.

All I see her are naughty boys who are replacing BB guns with rifles and birdies with humans...If there were more to it than just embuggerance it wouldnt be so sad...But you really get the feel that it is just a pastime to them.

"Hey Ahmed fancy a game of pool?"
"No my friend I will shoot infidels instead."

I found a nother video about the Juba snipers.
He talks about training snipers with books made by Major, John Plaster.

WARNING Graphic Video

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I doubt that all those shots were confirmed kills, unless it's a head shot, which the Iraqis don't seem to be comfortable attempting then it's by no means a definite kill. US troops wear body armor and if it's a body shot then there's a good chance they survived but fell due to the impact force, hence why the prop videos usually cut away after the soldier falls.

Example. Link

Also, most of these attacks take place very close to US troops, they roll up with their car, or remain parked in an area beforehand, lower the window, pop up, take a shot, pop back down and do nothing or if there is an influx of US troops they may quietly pull away. Kind of like the DC sniper attacks. There is a video from Iraqis filming out the back of their car as a US hummer start driving right behind them after they shot their weapon, unfortunately the US gunner does not realise that these A holes are the shooters.