Atlantis was a "homework assignment"??

Some time ago I was reading a artical about how Atlantis was a "homework" project, persay. given out by a greek teacher, as a fictional story of how the greek empire toppled atlantis and how it sunk underneath all it's sins, as somewhat of a propaganda story. An attempt to spread fear towards the roman empire.

If anyone has any information/even heard about this theory/have any sites with anything about this information, could help me out.




[edit on 11/14/06 by thixotrophy]

Never heard that one before, but interesting nonetheless.

Originally posted by CyberSm0ke
Never heard that one before, but interesting nonetheless.

Exactly what I thought Reading about this, I've been digging through alot of websites for any information about this. I've been told that there was an episode about Atlantis with a reference made to this, that was on either THC, TLC, Discovery channel or one of the science networks.

Edit: I have just emailed various site/ shows that air information about atlantis about my question regarding my post. I'm hoping that I recieve a email very soon, so I have something to back my claims.

[edit on 11/14/06 by thixotrophy]

Be sure to keep us updated regarding any responses you recieve, I wouldn't mind reading more into this.

Originally posted by thixotrophy
Some time ago I was reading a artical about how Atlantis was a "homework" project, persay. given out by a greek teacher, as a fictional story of how the greek empire toppled atlantis and how it sunk underneath all it's sins, as somewhat of a propaganda story. An attempt to spread fear towards the roman empire.

If anyone has any information/even heard about this theory/have any sites with anything about this information, could help me out.

I dont think I've heard this theory before. And to be honest I doubt it.

My history is iffy, but a little googling shows that Rome took Greece around 180BC. Plato died about 350BC. If anything we would be talking about spreading fear towards the Macedonians in this time period, ie Alexander The Great.

That is of course, assuming Plato actually wrote it then. Plus that was a couple of years after Plato died.

Anyway, I doubt its about Rome since Rome wasnt really a factor at that time.

Originally posted by merka
That is of course, assuming Plato actually wrote it then. Plus that was a couple of years after Plato died.
Anyway, I doubt its about Rome since Rome wasnt really a factor at that time.

Well, it is something I somewhat remember, so i'm sure my retelling of the exact facts are off. I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be hard evidence, but still, a new Atlantis theory. If infact my memory is correct.

Originally posted by CyberSm0ke
Be sure to keep us updated regarding any responses you recieve, I wouldn't mind reading more into this.

Still nothing from any site yet, but it did say to wait for some time since the slow time it takes to read and process all the emails.

Originally posted by thixotrophy
Some time ago I was reading a artical about how Atlantis was a "homework" project, persay. given out by a greek teacher, as a fictional story of how the greek empire toppled atlantis and how it sunk underneath all it's sins, as somewhat of a propaganda story. An attempt to spread fear towards the roman empire.

Interesting, but obviously straight fiction. The story of Atlantis was written by Plato, before the rise of the Roman empire... so history immediately contradicts that. Secondly, Plato writes that Atlantis was defeated by the city-state of Athens (not a Greek empire), so that point is also wrong. Rome at that time was a city-state and hadn't become an empire yet.

The original Timaeus text says that Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean... not the Mediterranean, as Rome was. It sank because of earthquakes and not because of moral decay, sins, etc :
etext.library.adelaide.edu.au...

So... not a theory. Just someone's piece of entertaining fiction (someone who hasn't read the original Plato.)

The original Timaeus text says that Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean

no it doesn't

thats a mistranslation that cranks have seized upon over the years because they didn't consider the source
i.e. the word that Plato actually meant
compare the line you are talking about

This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable

with
www.etymonline.com...
so unless Plato was writing after 1601
that claim about the location of Atlantis doesn't hold water (pun intended)

Yes, he does say its in the atlantic. Or rather, behind the pillars or herkules or whatever it is (something like that, it was a while since I last read it) which would be the straight of gibraltar. Well, according to the most common theories.

he doesnt at any time say its anywhere near the atlantic
i'm guessing you havent read the original greek text where he says the power came froth out of the Atlantis ocean
Benjamin Jowett who translated it in the 19th century which is the translation you have all been reading naturally assumed that Plato meant the Atlantic
but theres no evidence for that
and seeing as the sea bed of the Atlantic has now been mapped and no lost continent ever existed there i'd say theres pretty compelling evidence that the claim that it was the atlantic in the first place was totally erroneous
you'll also be surprised no doubt to know that the rock of gibraltar is not the location of the pillars of hercules either
and never was
thats just modern pseudoscience crap
bit like claiming there was ever a place called Atlantis in the first place
because Plato quite clearly names it after Atlas the Titan who didn't exist at the time the place was supposed to have sunk
so total non starter all round really

Okay... I looked up the original in Greek:
www.ellopos.net...

If you search for the phrase "this power came out of" you will come to the sentence in English and Greek. There, very clearly, in Greek script, is "Atlantkous pelaigos", which really IS "Atlantic Ocean."

It was named for Atlas, who held up the world.

And, of course there wasn't a "sunken continent" mapped in the Atlantic. The story is a teaching fable by Plato (continents don't just "sink" overnight) and not a piece of history.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Byrd]

If you search for the phrase "this power came out of" you will come to the sentence in English and Greek. There, very clearly, in Greek script, is "Atlantkous pelaigos", which really IS "Atlantic Ocean."

see now what youre doing is reading a modern greek translation based on B. Jowetts original. which is why it got that bit wrong. Consider the source
the greeks called the Atlantic the western ocean. So anyone not saying the western ocean is interpreting what was said as being the Atlantic
if Plato had meant the Atlantic he would have just said "this power came out of the western ocean", he didn't so it didn't

It was named for Atlas, who held up the world.

which in turn was named after the Atlas mountains which were named by Herodotus "father of lies" because he hadn't got a clue where Atlas really stood
so you're back to square one again unless you can see the glaring anomaly in which the pillars of heracles got their name in the first place which isn't mentioned directly in any Greek myth but is alluded to in the 11th task of heracles
and it wasn't in Africa

so it wasn't the Atlantic

but hey
its fiction so who cares
its probably actually behind my sofa.
its the one place that nobody has looked so by a process of elimination.......
"once you have elimated the possible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth"
eh Watson




[edit on 19-11-2006 by Marduk]

Originally posted by Marduk

If you search for the phrase "this power came out of" you will come to the sentence in English and Greek. There, very clearly, in Greek script, is "Atlantkous pelaigos", which really IS "Atlantic Ocean."

see now what youre doing is reading a modern greek translation based on B. Jowetts original. which is why it got that bit wrong.

No... that's actually in the text. The Greeks had, indeed, named the Atlantic Ocean well before Plato wrote that. It means "Sea of Atlas" and the name shows up in Heroditus in 450 BC, showing that it had been in popular use around the time Plato was born:
en.wikipedia.org...

And by the way, I wasn't reading a modern Greek version. I was reading ancient Greek.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Marduk

If you search for the phrase "this power came out of" you will come to the sentence in English and Greek. There, very clearly, in Greek script, is "Atlantkous pelaigos", which really IS "Atlantic Ocean."

see now what youre doing is reading a modern greek translation based on B. Jowetts original. which is why it got that bit wrong.

No... that's actually in the text. The Greeks had, indeed, named the Atlantic Ocean well before Plato wrote that. It means "Sea of Atlas" and the name shows up in Heroditus in 450 BC, showing that it had been in popular use around the time Plato was born:
en.wikipedia.org...

At any rate, here Plato is clearly describing the Mediterranean vs. a much much larger ocean;

the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

From The Timaeus.

Harte

plato is describing a large ocean next to a small sea which has the pillars of heracles as a passage marker
you realise of course that the modern idea that the pillars of heracles are gibraltar was claimed by the phoenecians
even Strabo said they got that wrong
the atlantic is derived from the atlas mountains but that was Herodoutus
Plato is talking about an ancient story handed down from originally Egypt which far predates the time of Greek civilisation
so claiming at any point that the Atlantic is mentioned happened after the fact
Plato dates Atlantis to 9500 bce
so what you're doing basically is what all people who discuss Atlantis do
you accept the details that you think are provable and discount those that are not
to truly find acceptance in the eyes of Plato you need to accept everything he said as Gospel
otherwise whats the point
if you think its a fable then you don't need to worry about people who think otherwise do you
I don't think its a fable because in my eyes its clearly a greek rendering of the same myth that appears in the bible featuring Noah
i.e. ancient sinners destroyed by flood sent by god
so to discount this story you need to discount the flood myth
and that you just can't do because it was factual
though not of course the way it is described in the bible
just the way it was described in ancient Sumer
really theres an easier way to do this
if you're looking for a huge flood that affected mankind then why don't you look at the largest floods that affected mankind and see what you come up with
or is that too easy ?

see I didn't start with Plato and worked backwards
I started with the largest flood in human history and worked forwards
its a geological fact
and it happened around 11,500 years ago
so how did plato get that right if he made it up

Originally posted by Marduk
plato is describing a large ocean next to a small sea which has the pillars of heracles as a passage marker
you realise of course that the modern idea that the pillars of heracles are gibraltar was claimed by the phoenecians
even Strabo said they got that wrong
the atlantic is derived from the atlas mountains but that was Herodoutus
Plato is talking about an ancient story handed down from originally Egypt which far predates the time of Greek civilisation
so claiming at any point that the Atlantic is mentioned happened after the fact
Plato dates Atlantis to 9500 bce

While the above might be true, there's no reason at all to believe it is true. Hence I do not.

On the other hand, I'll change my mind on presentation of actual evidence. See, there's no Egyptian mythos associated with this story that we know of. If it was so important to them that they shared it with Solon in a (relatively) recent time period, a period from which we have an abundance of Egyptian relics and records, then we must be the epitome of unlucky not to have found even a slight mention of this story.

Up to now, anyway.

Originally posted by Marduk
so what you're doing basically is what all people who discuss Atlantis do
you accept the details that you think are provable and discount those that are not
to truly find acceptance in the eyes of Plato you need to accept everything he said as Gospel...

The only detail I accept as "provable" is that Plato wrote the thing.

Originally posted by Marduk
I don't think its a fable because in my eyes its clearly a greek rendering of the same myth that appears in the bible featuring Noah
i.e. ancient sinners destroyed by flood sent by god
so to discount this story you need to discount the flood myth
and that you just can't do because it was factual
though not of course the way it is described in the bible
just the way it was described in ancient Sumer...

I do not agree. Primarily because the flood story is the story of a flood and the Atlantis story is the story of an earthquake.

Also, the stories are quite different on a number of other levels - such as the means of survival (boat building), the collection of animals, etc. Not to mention the uncomfortable fact that the Sumerian tale is about a flood of the river system in Mesopotamia.

Floods happen. Huge floods happen as well, but less often. It's not in the least unusual to me that certain large floods would be commemorated in stories - all around the world, even. I mean, the Sumerians didn't have a monopoly on tragedy.

Originally posted by Marduk
really theres an easier way to do this
if you're looking for a huge flood that affected mankind then why don't you look at the largest floods that affected mankind and see what you come up with
or is that too easy ?

You told me about this flood, and I read the paper you gave me on it. It's very interesting, I admit. But I'm gonna need something more than one philosopher writing about it 9200 years after it happened before I can connect this ancient flood to Plato's story. I mean, nobody talked about it in between, unless you count the flood myth, which like I said doesn't match well at all with the Atlantis tale.

Originally posted by Marduk
see I didn't start with Plato and worked backwards
I started with the largest flood in human history and worked forwards
its a geological fact
and it happened around 11,500 years ago
so how did plato get that right if he made it up

I'm willing to bet that he didn't get it right. The date you give for the Altai flood is suspect, like all archaeological dates, though it's no doubt in the ballpark.

The real question to my mind is how would anybody get the date right back then? How did the Egyptians know the date? Why did they say it was around the time that their city (Sais) was founded, on the one hand, which is utter nonsense, and then in the same breath nail the timeframe for the Altai flood so accurately?

Also, why didn't they describe it as a flood? Why is there no mention of what would obviously be the most ancient tale they possessed anywhere in any of the Egyptian relics and records that we have found? Plato lived in a relatively recent period, Solon only a hundred (maybe 150) years before him. How is it that records of the Atlantis destruction can exist from 9,500 BC until 500 BC (nine thousand years!) in pristine condition, enough for Solon to read all about it, but today, only a couple thousand years later, there's not even a mention of anything remotely similar to this tale anywhere in any ancient stories we have found?

Not good enough for me. But like I said, it is interesting.

Harte

Also, the stories are quite different on a number of other levels - such as the means of survival (boat building), the collection of animals, etc. Not to mention the uncomfortable fact that the Sumerian tale is about a flood of the river system in Mesopotamia.

where did you get that idea from

All day long the South Wind blew ...,
blowing fast, submerging the mountain in water,
overwhelming the people like an attack.
No one could see his fellow,
they could not recognize each other in the torrent.
The gods were frightened by the Flood,
and retreated, ascending to the heaven of Anu.

not many mountains on the flood plain in mesopotamia you know