STFU and DISCUSS

Let's see here....where's "quote entire thread"? Damn, they hid it again. I guess I can't quote THIS thread from over at ATS. lol.

Anywho, this is the problem with every single message board that I have ever been a part of. Great ideas and disscussions are boiled down to petty bickering and back-and-forth flaming. I thought that a place like this would be at least a LITTLE different. I understand I'm new here, but for the love of god, why is it that people feel a need to make every thread about themselves? I'm not saying that it is everyone, but it seems that anywhere you go on the intertron there is always one or two egoscentric CHILDREN that have to ruin the expierence for everyone else involved by needless here-say. Just once I would like to visit a place where this doesn't happen. It'd be nice if people could put aside their differences. ESPECIALLY at a place like ATS (I know I'm on BTS!). ATS is a place for research, ideas, and discovery. We're not talking about your favorite Laguna Beach character. This stuff is important, and should thus be treated as such. Not as a child's plaything that you can bicker over to appease yourself.

That's not to say that debate shouldn't happen. Quite the opposite, encourage it. But if you are going to debate a topic, here's a wild idea: introduce new evidence, ideas, facts, WHATEVER to your new post! Don't just recycle the same rhetoric, otherwise you fall into an endless loop of back-and-forth BS that completely destry the original thread and anything that may have been gained from it.

I guess all I'm asking is the next time someone feels a need to nay-say you, engage that person. Ask them why they feel that way and have them present evidence. Go back-and-forth, for a bit, and if you can't reach an understanding after all the evidence has presented itself then DROP IT! Agree to disagree, or hell, be an adult about it and just admit defeat. You may not have actually lost, but does it really matter what some other person miles & miles (kilometers & kilometers for you metric-types) away thinks. In the long run, no. If you've done your job, and presented your arguement in a logical way, all the while respecting the rights of everyone else, then you HAVE won! Maybe not to the person on the other side of the "debate," but in the eyes of everyone else reading you will appear the more intelligent, and less petty person. And at least for me, that's the kind of person I would trust anyday.


*whew* thanks for the rant section BTS!

GO BUCKS !!!

Yes, thank goodness for the Rant section....

if all else fails start your own board and make the rules.

GO BUCKS !!!

Not everyone sees it the way you do, they have to get eveyone to agree with their views/thoughts and are not willing to compromise or to admit a mistake. Just get into a "debate" with a very fanatical and religious person and you will see that.

Some people will stick to their point of view no matter what any existing proft or evidence states otherwise. Others simply need a whole lot more information in order to be conviced. And we can all believe in a wrong view/perception of a situation for years before some new evidence in the future proves otherwise.

It all depends on the avaiable information, level of intelligence and wisdom of the people/person. And lasty Never Underestimate Humankinds' Power of Denial!!! Yay!! (a fantasic safety net/technic, the fanatics taught me that)

[edit on 18-11-2006 by ixiy]

The title of this thread made me chuckle, and then I chuckled even more when I saw it was about one of my threads! It got the attention I wanted it to get, but it would seem it got that attention for all the wrong reasons. It's a shame, really.

I'll begin with the fact that I do agree with your message. However the way you present this message, well, it acts as a smoke screen. Putting a title that openly states, STFU & Discuss, slightly hypocritical. Your ignorantly telling people to shut up, while asking them to discuss. There are far better ways to approach this problem.

Originally posted by sbj
Great ideas and disscussions are boiled down to petty bickering and back-and-forth flaming. I thought that a place like this would be at least a LITTLE different.

We have the best staff on the internet here. However, with the amount of daily posts on the board, some go under the radar. If you see off topic posts, trolling, etc., submit a Complaint and allow the staff to deal with it. ATS does not condone these actions, but sometimes they need the assistance of the membership. And it can not be said enough, to Never feed the trolls. If we ignore these off-topic rants, they will die before they have an opportunity to take life. One reply is more than enough to send a good thread into a spiral of continuous crap.

Originally posted by sbj
It'd be nice if people could put aside their differences.

It would be nice if people could agree to disagree. If everyone began to agree on ATS, this place wouldn't be worth the visit. The fact that noone agrees, and can carry an intellectual discussion, is why this place is so damn great. We have some threads that are not exactly ATS quality, but I believe they are far outweighted by amazing threads. Some members are entering threads with intentions of taking over threads, spewing hate, calling out members, etc., we need to ignore them.

It also can not be said enough that we need to submit a complaint rather than calling the member out. I've been guilty of it many of times, and probably will be guilty of it again. But it is best for the board when we ignore the post and refer to the complain function.

Originally posted by sbj
I guess all I'm asking is the next time someone feels a need to nay-say you, engage that person. Ask them why they feel that way and have them present evidence. Go back-and-forth, for a bit, and if you can't reach an understanding after all the evidence has presented itself then DROP IT! Agree to disagree, or hell, be an adult about it and just admit defeat.

Now that is what ATS is about. Well said.

These threads do exist, and they are plentiful. The trick is to find them. After you spend some time with the site, you will begin to come familiar with certain members. These threads make all the bad ones worth it.

You have a strong message here, but I believe the STFU in the title was inappropriate.

If we attempt to deny ignorance with ignorance, are we really denying ignorance or being a part of the problem?

Good post though.

Originally posted by chissler
I'll begin with the fact that I do agree with your message. However the way you present this message, well, it acts as a smoke screen. Putting a title that openly states, STFU & Discuss, slightly hypocritical. Your ignorantly telling people to shut up, while asking them to discuss. There are far better ways to approach this problem...

...You have a strong message here, but I believe the STFU in the title was inappropriate.

If we attempt to deny ignorance with ignorance, are we really denying ignorance or being a part of the problem?

Good post though.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. I fully agree that anywhere that's full of a bunch of "yes-men" is pretty boring. And yes, I see the hypocrisy in the title. However its an attention getter that in the end makes people think (I've always been a fan of subtle ironies). I wasn't trying to make this a knock on ATS, I really do appreciate the job you guys do. Its more of a general complaint about message boards in general. I've been a poster on various boards since I came across them years upon years ago. I've been both a moderator, as well as the guy in there trying to just TALK to people. Every single board I have been a member of has had the same problem of a handful of ignorant people ruining the experience at least for myself, and probably others too, that's why I don't post on other boards anymore. I got sick of the back-and-forth, the one liners, and the constant flaming so I'd leave. When I came here I thought that this would be a place of intelligence and peaceful debate. And for the most part it is. To assume that there is going to be a place on the interweb where this doesn't occur, now THAT is ignorance, and I know that.

In the end, I just was upset, and instead of taking out my grievances about the thread I was in in said thread (in turn making me guilty of the same mistakes), I put up a rant. Hence the section of placement. I honestly didn't even expect much of a response for it. More of a means to get something off my chest, vent, and get back into the thick of it.

And BTW, great quote there at the end of your post chissler, and again thank the powers that be for the Rant section.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by sbj]

It comes with the territory.

We are lucky enough on ATS that the intellectual severely outweigh the ignorant. That is my opinion anyways. The ignorant can be vocal at times, but they are normally silenced by our members. What we need to do is pay more attention to the intellects rather than the ignorant.

ATS is not consisted of ignorance, trolls, and hijackers. It may appear like that from time to time. But when we closely examine what ATS really is, it becomes quite clear how remarkable this site actually is.

From FSME's, Conspiracy Masters, or Guest Speakers, there are some brilliant minds who log onto ATS on a daily basis.