Just What is wrong with the People that run our School systems

In the past few moths we have had threads on ATS/PTS that discussed schools banning Recess, various games like Tag etc and they claimed running caused problems.

School bans tag

Increasingly, Schools Move To Restrict Dodgeball

Schools Ban Tag and other games


Now today under Odd news we find this School Bans Electronic Games because Kids do not run



What I would like to know is how and the devil can you let kids be kids if you do not allow them to run then still complain when they do not run? Seems like kids are darned if they do and darned if they don't if you ask me and that is wrong.

It would appear our school system and yes even Britains and probably Canada also have the same measures in place that need fixing big time.


Now who wants to take the 20 pound sledge hammer and knock some sense into these so called educators?


[edit on 11/15/2006 by shots]

Count me as one of them unfortunately i am still in high school but ya i love doing some demolition.

Geez, I remember in either elementary or middle school (I think middle) I accidentally tagged a kid too hard causing him to fall into the basketball pole playing tag football (we just had an outdoor "play area" with a concrete basketball court as the center-piece for recess) and he broke his collar-bone! His parents talked to my parents and the administrators, but nobody was ever sued! It was just hand-shakes and "boys will be boys."

I remember while still in middle school and we were a little older that we purposefully picked teams based on people we liked or didn't like just so we could "hit" (it was then tackle but unsanctioned and without gear but now on a grass field) those that we didn't like without getting into trouble... Nobody got sued then either, and we really went at it! (stupid, definitely, but we were kids and the adults were back under air-conditioning not paying attention.) This was all during recess.

It's a bummer, I thought the "credential-based" society had been fulfilled by the time I finished schooling... apparently it is not. Some people are going to get an unpleasant surprise when faced with people who actually grew up in the real world! And I'm sure it was even more competitive and real before my time!

The problem here is, accountability.

Who do we point the finger at? I can blame someone for the problem, who is going to point the finger at someone else, who is going to duck and push the blame to another. There are some serious problems in our education system today, and noone appears to be held accountable for these actions.

They need to face facts. Kids are messed up. They were messed up in the 60's. They were messed up in the 70's. I'd say they were really messed up in the 80's, and guess what? The 90's were no different. Nothing is broke, why are the administrations busting their asses to fix something?

Sure years ago kids were really active. With television, vido games, etc., some kids are not active as they once were. But did they have the after school activities that they do today? I'm leaning towards, not a damn chance.

They say the kids are too obese. We need to fix this. We need to get them off the computers, out of the house, off the couch, away from the gaming systems, we need to slim these kids down. Slim them down? Well stop pumping them with McDonalds, potato chips, etc. Television is not getting us fat, our eating habits are getting us fat.

Now they turn around and begin to ban child games. Dodgeball is too violent. Kids can get hurt playing tag. No, kids can get hurt if they trip and fall on their ass when they are going for the second donut that momma insists they have. Our efforts are really misguided here.

I would love to see adults allow kids to be kids. Go out and have fun. Cause a little bit of trouble and fall down and get hurt. It's a part of growing up. Our attempts to shelter kids from natural experiences is doing them more harm than good.

WyrdeOne had publicly stated in a few of his posts that he would never enroll his children in the public school systems. At first I questioned this. But after reading into things, it becomes very clear. We are facing a serious problem here.

Kids need room to grow up. I think we back off a little bit and allow them to make mistakes. Just be there to help them up and show them the way. If we do not allow them to learn from their mistakes, we are only going to push them into rebellion.

Alright, rambling finished. Over & Out.

[edit on 15-11-2006 by chissler]

One word.

Unions.

Well, OK.

Two words.

Labor unions.

It is the same in Oz...I call it social control.


In Peace Always
resi

First off, nice thread shots!

I'd just like to share a little story that surfaced from the way back when I read this thread, shots.

It's always real tough being the new kid in school. And as much as I was shuffled around as a kid, being the new kid in school was a rather unfortunate, common occurence in my case. They all look at you funny, and the would be bullies immediately want a piece of you. They'll test you like whoa, and see if you're gonna put up a fight.

I believe this was in like 5th grade that I had just been moved, again, to a new school. And as usual, I had no friends at first, and felt lonlier than hell. Recesses were always good, cause I was out of class for a few, but always even worse than class because everyone always had their friends, and I wasn't included. They'd all play dodgeball and back then, flag football. And everyday I had to sit there and watch them have all the fun. I had to wait for the right chance.

So one day I was out there and they were all playing flag football. This is where you each wear a flag, and to tackle someone you have to grab the flag dangling from their pants. And you can bet all the girls were watching, giggling and doing all the things little girls do to stir the wannabe feelings of importance and admiration in little boys.

All the room there was in that school was a big hill on the side of the school with grass to play this, so the field was a bit awkward. And today was gonna be my lucky day cause they were missing one of the normal kids that played- he was sick. So someone reluctantly called me over and said "hey you, come play." (In the typical, purposefully non personal way kids do. It was an order, not an invite.)

Figuring damned if I do, damned if I don't, I ran on over. No hi's, no hey, this so snd so, no nothing. "You're on the red team." "Hell no, he's not playing on OUR team! Give us (whoever that kid was) and you take him instead." "No way!" "Yes way!!" "Blah blah blah, oh allright, let's just play."

So for the first few plays I just kinda did the best I could and tried to help out, cause the other team had the ball. One of the idiots dropped it, and we got it back. So in the huddle, the little big dog on our team said, "Hey, can you run? They'll never expect us to give it to YOU."

I said "I dunno, but I'll try." This was the moment of truth. I was gonna be made to look like a fool, and especially in front of ALL THOSE GIRLS. So I summoned every last ounce of will a little kid like me could muster, and told my legs that it was time to die. 24-35-46 hike! And little ole me got handed the ball of doom.

Well, suffice it to say that sheer terror propelled me down that field so fast, weaving out of tackles and down the hill that no one even had a chance at catching me. Touchdown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yippee. I was in. The girls all went wow, and the little big dog kid was like "All RIGHT!! We want him on our team from now on."

And so a simple game of flag football gave a kid a little confidence to carry on. To be accepted. To live. To be a kid.

These educators trying to put a stop to these games can go to hell.

[edit on 15-11-2006 by TrueAmerican]

I say Chissler has hit it on the head!

I remember in grade school we where not allowed to play any kind of football. Made us violent you see.

Then we where not allowed to play kick ball, because kids that where not active where left out.

Then we where not allowed to play on the monkey bars because they posed a health risk.

Then they banned the slide because some kids got intoa fight over it.

Then they banned soccer because only the kids on the soccer team where playing and felt it lead to social seclusion of other kids.

Then they stoped allowing inter grade recesses because they felt kids in lower grades (i went to a Catholic school K-8th grade 3 grades out at a time ex. 1st-3rd) where feeling dominated by older kids (I honestly never remember a problem?)

They banned dodge ball in gym because it lead to violence.

They banned chasing kids, you know, girls chasing boys because it posed a health risk. Then they reversed it because PTO people threw a fit because it was a stupid rule.

All electronics where banned (in high school as well) All playing cards where banned (high school to, which wasnt Catholic it was public. They banned it because of a rise in Texas Hold em popularity)

In high school they banned soda machines, then replaced them with new more expensive soda machines because they needed more money. Imagine that.

In high school they at first banned buying sweets for lunch, you had to have a balanced meal you see. Then.. and I am not kidding, there was a lunch room riot during a black out where students literally destroyed the lunch line.. they repealed the lunch line cookie ban as we called it.

They banned all public prayer services on property at my high school. A Christian group was organized to pray under the flag every morning, they where told they had to accept atheist if they wanted to pray there. Atheist ment Wiccans and Jews and Muslims and who ever else.. at least I suppose, why would an atheist go to a prayer service? Well there was arguments and threats from lawyers so they where allowed to pray under the flag but they had to publicly on morning announcements say that it was welcomed to anyone who would like to join them.

Of all the stupid rules that kids have been bogged down with I have decided it falls into this category.

Teachers, and of course parents have turned the art of educating, or parenting, and of being a child its self into a science, in which new ideas are used as weapons against them to make up for their lack of understanding. Being to technical. Banning dodge ball will not help kids, you take away a physical activity it gets replaced by nintendo. Take away nintendo and they turn to drugs or other activities you wouldn't want them involved in. These "grown ups" just forgot what it was like to be young. Get someone who is a kid at heart.. or is a little intelligent, not narrow minded and they will see that these rules are BS and do not help AT ALL. IMHO.

I believe that to our elites and leaders that school is like the ultimate cage for the human rat. In there they are tested and managed and coerced to behave in certain ways to observe reactions and behaviours.

They are testing the future control system over humans and using our kids to do this while refining their system. Very few humans understand what is going on right now.

Chissler and True American greats posts

I liked Chisslers comments because they were direct on target and especially the note on obesity which raised one question.

Do all children now get bused to school? It might sound odd but think about it for a while. My conclusion is busing all of them is wrong because that alone prevents children from exercising. When I went to school I had to walk a half mile to grade school twice a day. When in high school I had to walk 3/4 each way 5 days a week. I also had a paper route after school and had to walk anywhere from several blocks to and from my route or in some cases 1 mile or more when I had a different route. That is pretty good exercise compared to today when they bus kids to schools and deliver papers by cars to the route in my day I had to haul them from the paper station to my route in a wagon with the exception of Saturday when I could use a bike because the paper was so small.

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True American thanks for sharing the experience it points out how important games at schools are to make friends.

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Now I do not want to leave out Grady and have to ask what unions? In this case the decision was made by the principal and I do not think they are union, but I could be wrong.




[edit on 11/16/2006 by shots]

Grady, do not blame the Unions because it is lawyers that have caused this problem.
As far as bussing goes when we were kids you had to live 2 miles away from school to ride a bus. Now in Northern Wisconsin they ride the bus from the other side of the school grounds. No I am not kidding they ride the bus from just a few hundred yards away and each route for the busses cost about a hundred thousand. If you dare bring it up parents scream about safety but it is really more a matter of not wanting their fat kids to whine.

My son has attended a private (non-religious) academically related schools beginning before pre-k. When the time came to begin looking into placing him in an elementary school, I ran across a few articles on how children benefit (adjust-mentally) by attending public schools at least until grade four. So I checked into area ‘magnet’ public programs/schools.

I had difficulty believing what I was both seeing and hearing on these campuses that were supposed to be the ‘elite’ in public elementary academia. One instance where I attended a PTO meeting I had to sit through 80% of the meeting and speakers in Spanish. The principal, a couple teachers and a few parents alternated both in Spanish and English. The ‘English’ printed materials for parents ran out (I was informed only a few English versions were printed); I speak and read Spanish but this seemed a bit odd. This turned out to be fairly common on most magnet campuses I visited.

The curriculum looked good on paper, but functionally it was poorly organized. Physical education was considered a six week ‘ancillary’ course by single classes where the students from each selected class would have PE for 45mins 4 days a week with a coach. I asked where the gym was located…not one school had a gym….so I would inquire what if his class was chosen for the winter months and could not play outside that often. The answer “it would be cancelled for the day”; I was reassured by a teacher that in winter (due to the number of vacation days) it really would not matter that much the last period of the semester would only really be four weeks. Great. Other ‘ancillary’ courses were the same, seemed good on paper, by functionally ridiculous. I don’t have enough room to explain these. Needless to say, my son attends a great private school where PE is “school wide” for an hour each day and academics are highly stressed.

I also coach little league baseball (mostly 7-8 years old) during the spring and fall each year as a volunteer and have done so since before my son (20+seasons). The past two years have been bordering on the surreal. Our association is close to fifty years old (which will remain nameless) and we lease our fields (14 fields) from the county; therefore we are bound to county regulations as part of our lease.

The newest requirements are that each child gets equal playing time, must rotate positions each inning in the outfield, we can not use the same batting line-up from one game to the next, low-impact to non-impact calisthenics are encouraged (example are given such as a ‘warm-up walk’ LOL! With kids!), strikes are not counted until ‘player’s pitch’ level (each player now gets six pitches), the use of the word “out” is discouraged as “negative”…and my personal favorite in looking for signs of exhaustion in children “sweating” is the “primary indicator” and the player should “immediately rest and be directed to a cool and ventilated environment sheltered from direct exposure to the Sun”. What's worse is "sweating" is not any where near a primary sign of exhaustion.

This was my last season with the association and I moved to private league for spring ’07 on private fields where I can actually coach children again.

mg

Originally posted by factfinder38
No I am not kidding they ride the bus from just a few hundred yards away and each route for the busses cost about a hundred thousand.

I can Vouch for that; the same happens in the MKE Area. One family faught for several months to keep them from bussing their son who lived across the street from the school entrance.

The mother had to get the son up 1 and a half hours before school to get him dressed/fed so he could be out in front to catch the bus then ride it for roughly one hour only to get off the bus 22 feet from where he got on, only on the other side of the street.

IMO one the base problems, is that the schools have been asked to do too much. It's a big vicious circle that needs to be addressed but that's an enormous argument that's best left for a thread of it's own.

Schools and school faculty have been transformed into nothing more than state childcare with some learning mixed in. Schools need to concentrate on just the core subjects. Reading, writing, math, science, phys. ed, history, etc..

Unfortunately capitalism causes both parents to want to work, therefore an increased need for someone to teach their children about life. The system IMO is moving towards a completely state controlled curriculum, if it's not already.

I also don't believe you can fix the school system without makeing some fundatmental changes in the society that nurtured that system. It's a cluster mess.

Originally posted by nextguyinline

Unfortunately capitalism causes both parents to want to work, therefore an increased need for someone to teach their children about life. The system IMO is moving towards a completely state controlled curriculum, if it's not already.

Capitalism is as old as society, but two income families on a massive scale in the US has only been a phenomenon for about 30 years tops.

The reasons for such are far more complex.

Originally posted by factfinder38
Grady, do not blame the Unions because it is lawyers that have caused this problem.

I admit that the problem is more complex than just labor unions, but the teaching profession is in the state it is today primarily because of teachers' unions.

Lawyers deserve some of the blame, but not all.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by nextguyinline

Unfortunately capitalism causes both parents to want to work, therefore an increased need for someone to teach their children about life. The system IMO is moving towards a completely state controlled curriculum, if it's not already.

Capitalism is as old as society, but two income families on a massive scale in the US has only been a phenomenon for about 30 years tops.

The reasons for such are far more complex.

I agree, but capitalism or probably more accurately, free market economy is what has allowed the individual, on a large scale to gain wealth only available in the last 30 odd years.

But I agree, my argument is highly simplified.

Wow, missed_gear, you articulated many of my thoughts so well! Especially the part about looking good on paper but being functionally defunct. Here's where I went to school from K through 12 - www.nbps.org... (I'm almost 26, so it wasn't really all that long ago) looks extremely impressive, doesn't it?! It's a joke, there was no responsibility - tons of great facilities, teachers, and coaches... But you had to seek them out if you wanted it. If you're the standard, average kid who doesn't care it's more like day-care these days. Trust me, we had LOADS of "free time." Looks good on paper, though, I guess - and that's what's important these days.

Then again, I had a friend who had to move (a divorce, custody issues) to a little place called Allen, TX (just outside of Dallas, he'd say) where their P.E. (I guess that's recess in high school) was a trip to the local bowling alley. Talk about sticking it to the poor students!

edit: edited to remove stupid, yet very true, first edit.

[edit on 16-11-2006 by AlphaHumana]

The problem with teachers Unions is that unlike the rest of us their jobs can not go to some other country. In areas where jobs are leaving and wages and benefits are droping the teachers get raises and tax already burdend people further.