Simple, yet Damning Proof Young Creationism is False!-?

As for the comment about the stars being far away and lignt not yet reaching the earth, I believe when God saidLET THERE BE LIGHT he meant it.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Okay, here's your proof. There is your dinosaur spoken of in the Bible.

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Oh yes, and that really describes a dinosaur!!!! what about leviathon? The dino of the sea! The only reference that could be construed as dino-like is the 'He moveth his tail like a cedar' but that could mean its tail moves like a cedar sapling in the wind. Oh and BTW Leviathon is not a dino either.

For me I feel sorry for those that have trouble facing facts. I don't have enough blind faith to believe that hydrogen will turn into people if you wait long enough.
I'm more interested in facts. The Bible still stands dispite attempts to disprove it.

As I said in my last post - all elements other than hydrogen, helium etc are created in stars and exploding stars. This is observable fact.
It is your faith that blinds you and you seem to have trouble facing the facts of element creation. Everything around you was created from stars.
As your more interested in facts, then try a little study before letting your god delusion blind you to the true facts of the universe.



G

Originally posted by shihulud
Oh yes, and that really describes a dinosaur!!!! what about leviathon? The dino of the sea! The only reference that could be construed as dino-like is the 'He moveth his tail like a cedar' but that could mean its tail moves like a cedar sapling in the wind. Oh and BTW Leviathon is not a dino either.

Oh yes, I forgot about all the animals big enough to drink a river.

As I said in my last post - all elements other than hydrogen, helium etc are created in stars and exploding stars. This is observable fact.
Everything around you was created from stars.
As your more interested in facts, then try a little study before letting your god delusion blind you to the true facts of the universe.

I already know the truth. You are still fishing.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Okay, here's your proof. There is your dinosaur spoken of in the Bible.

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Pity none ever lived with modern humans ain't it, not a single reliable piece of evidence of higher primates, let alone homonids being around 65million yrs ago (just the possibility of primitive prosimian-like species).

Sounds more like an elephant considering behemoth is just 'wild beast', maybe 'tail' was just its trunk - or could stones and tail signify something rather cruder

But I guess that's where interpretation kicks in.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Okay, here's your proof. There is your dinosaur spoken of in the Bible.

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Pity none ever lived with modern humans ain't it, not a single reliable piece of evidence of higher primates, let alone homonids being around 65million yrs ago (just the possibility of primitive prosimian-like species).

Sounds more like an elephant considering behemoth is just 'wild beast', maybe 'tail' was just its trunk - or could stones and tail signify something rather cruder

But I guess that's where interpretation kicks in.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by melatonin]

I believe they are talking about an animal big enough to drink a river with a tail like a cedar tree. Sounds like a dino to me.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Without a doubt, this most simple and yet most damning argument i've ever heard.

If the earth and universe were only 10,000 years old, then the light from stars and galaxies millions of light years away wouldn't even have reached us yet, and we wouldn't be able to see them.

how simple is that? is there some sort of argument against this? Has this been proven wrong or something... if not, then how can people still believe in a young earth?

I remember back in middle school (protestant private school), my science teachers were always trying to push how ridiculous evolution and the big bang was. I remember my science teacher getting all worked up saying that since dust on the moon was barely 1 foot deep, then the moon can't be BILLIONS of years old... or something like that.

If only I could see HER now...



Mod Edit: CAP title

[edit on 13-11-2006 by kinglizard]

Here's the thing....
Every action has to have a "cause". All the way back to the original thing, or person that has just ALWAYS existed. (GOD)

Concerning the age of the Universe....
The "young" universe can possibly be explained like this:
(Let's see if I can word this the right way)

... The first people & animals were created with the "appearance" of age, or a "pre-aged" existence. Meaning, people & animals couldn't have started as "babies" because they would NOT be able to take care of themselves, as far as food, shelter... etc.

SO... if THEY were created in the likeness of an "older" being, the Universe could be under the same rules of creation as well.

The thing about "big-bang" or "evolution of the universe" that doesn't fit is, if the universe just suddenly "popped" into existence from nothing, as described in the big bang theory, how did it happen?

You can't get something from nothing.
if you have "nothing" you have zip, zilch, zero, nada.... NOTHING. How can you get SOMETHING from it?

Something, or someONE had to create it, in order for it's existence to happen.

The universe hasn't always just existed..... science knows that. They realize something happened to cause it.

So I understand your point of light taking millions of years to reach us. (I've even wondered that too) But if you look at the "appearance of age" being given at creation, it would make sense.

I ABSOLUTELY believe that everything was "CREATED"... but I still don't KNOW what "AGE" the Earth, or Universe is....... I can see good points to both sides of the argument.

However, I feel that your "Damning proof" against creation doesn't really pack much punch.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I believe they are talking about an animal big enough to drink a river with a tail like a cedar tree. Sounds like a dino to me.

I do believe that, like an elephant, a sauropod could not drink up a river. In fact, it would be a pretty bad thing as how could they all survive

I have trouble taking books with talking snakes as truly factually based.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by marko1970
The thing about "big-bang" or "evolution of the universe" that doesn't fit is, if the universe just suddenly "popped" into existence from nothing, as described in the big bang theory, how did it happen?

You can't get something from nothing.
if you have "nothing" you have zip, zilch, zero, nada.... NOTHING. How can you get SOMETHING from it?

I think you should read up on the big bang theory. That is not what it suggests.

I guess you believe that a magic-man can create something from nothing. If so, then why not have some quantum effect that does the same? Only the god theory relies on 'poofing'.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I believe they are talking about an animal big enough to drink a river with a tail like a cedar tree. Sounds like a dino to me.

I do believe that, like an elephant, a sauropod could not drink up a river. In fact, it would be a pretty bad thing as how could they all survive

I have trouble taking books with talking snakes as truly factually based.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by melatonin]

Understandable.............I used to feel the same way. Then instead of rejecting what I didn't understand and throw it all away..............I accepted what I could understand and found how the impossible is possible.

You can't find God looking for why he isn't. You find him looking for why he is. Then you find out the things you think are impossible ,aren't. Satan can talk.

How's a suropod that is big enough to drink a whole rive-that's bigger than any suropod on earth and would probably violate a lot of laws of physics. Like hows the dino gunna pump blood to it's brain without the pressure needed bursting all the arteries near the heart-going to 'covert' in the reeds. Covert means to be hidden. Suropod aint gunna be able to hide in the reeds...sorry. They were talking about water buffalo or wilderbeasts or something.

A tail like a cedar tree. Well cedar trees aren't gigantic for trees and thier trunks are not huge in girth. So hows a dino with a relativly small tail no more than 2 feet in diameter going to be big enough to drink up a whole river.

Scientists don't think that there was nothing before the big bang. Infact, they believe there was alot going on before the big bang. So you can't use the big bang to justify the theory of god existing from a purely causational standpoint.

Also there is even more damning proof that literal interpredation of the bibles theories on the age of the earth universe etc... would be what astronomers refer to as 'the cosmic tapistry'

It's a series of photos that show most of the observable universe. The photo's show galaxies clumped together millions at a time in what looks to be a woven patern where filaments of galaxy clusters weave together in and out and create a web like pattern across the entire known universe.

Whats interesting about this is that they are clumping together following rules of electro magnetism and plasma dynamics. THe rules state that for objects of this size to coagulate into clusters it would take about 14 billion years. Even older than the big bang. WTF? So the mystery continues. But the facts point to the universe being even older than we thought. The big bang may or maynot have happened. And things could even be infinantly old, but certaintly not a few thousand years.

Originally posted by Sun MatrixSatan can talk.

But snakes don't. They don't have a voice-box.

Sunmatrix can you re-explain your last post it seems to contradict it's self sorta. I'm trying to understand.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Sunmatrix can you re-explain your last post it seems to contradict it's self sorta. I'm trying to understand.

I saw that myself.

But I think sun's basically saying that if you believe hard enough it makes it true.

I still think satan was really just enki. THe serpent was enki's symbol. I think God was enlil. THe angels were just their pages and messangers, and assistants. Enlil was in charge and was always concerned about loosing control of earth, his own people and the humans. He was very forceful and strict about this in the old testament. He hated his brother Enki the creator of man and the main science guy in the panthion of ancient gods from sumeria. History was written by the victor. In the time period of the tales concerning the old testament enlil got to write the book.

Enki was giving the humans knowledge. He wanted to educate us cause he was concerned just like any caring parent. Enlil (God)wanted man suppresed to not disturb his own political agenda. SO he villainized Enki and called him bad names (like satan) We unfortunantly didn't know better so we bought the story.

Later in the bible God changes over to a more secure less paranoid and frankly intelligent and caring person. Enki and his clan taking control of the administration perhaps. The change in gods personality is due to enki(satan) being in control. We worship satan and don't know it, but satan wasn't a bad guy in fact he was the one who wanted to save us, and educate us.

Crazy theory I know but it makes more sense than a talking snake with no laranx. And a omnipotent god trying to wipe out a patheic tinsy race of creatures that demonstrated no harm to him but were ungrateful for being created.

I'm going to go jump off a skyscraper and wish real hard that I can fly. It might work. Don't knock it till you try it etc...

Originally posted by BASSPLYR


A tail like a cedar tree. Well cedar trees aren't gigantic for trees and thier trunks are not huge in girth. So hows a dino with a relativly small tail no more than 2 feet in diameter going to be big enough to drink up a whole river.

I don't think you know what a cedar is, or you have never seen a big cedar trunk.

YOu are absolutly right some cedar trees get to be huge, most are relativly small. Only old growth forests have huge ones.

But again, hows a suropod going to hide in some reeds? How if it is big enough to drink a river is it going to pump blood o it's extremities without burting vein and artieries local to the heart. What did it eat in biblical times to sustain it's self.

What about all that cosmic stuff that points to the universe being really really reeeeeaaaaaallllllyyyy old?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I'm going to go jump off a skyscraper and wish real hard that I can fly. It might work. Don't knock it till you try it etc...

Load the jump program. That's exactly what the Matrix movie is about.... The laws that we live in the physical world can be bent or broken.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Sunmatrix can you re-explain your last post it seems to contradict it's self sorta. I'm trying to understand.

Sorry...........I'm trying to say that before I became a Christian there was lots of things I couldn't understand. I couldn't understand how it was possible to be in the belly of a fish for three days and live. I pretty much need facts, I'm not a fairy tale kind of guy. This was a huge roadblock for me.

I decided to believe what I could believe and put the other things aside. I began to realize that other than what I thought were fairy tales, I could not disprove the Bible. All the prophecies were accurate.

And when you are born again over time you realize that there are coincediences that can't be coincediences. You find that things aren't quite like you believed.

The Bible is a book with the instructions on having a relationship with God. When you come to the place that you know, that you know, that you know there is a God, you come to a place that you realize that all things are possible.

To find that place you must seek that place. Seek and you will find. I put it to the test and found it to be true.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by shihulud
Oh yes, and that really describes a dinosaur!!!! what about leviathon? The dino of the sea! The only reference that could be construed as dino-like is the 'He moveth his tail like a cedar' but that could mean its tail moves like a cedar sapling in the wind. Oh and BTW Leviathon is not a dino either.

Oh yes, I forgot about all the animals big enough to drink a river.

What???? where does it say that???? If your with your friends in a bar or whatever and they say 'drink up' that doesnt mean you drink all the beer in the bar does it???? It means you take your fill of what you need.

As I said in my last post - all elements other than hydrogen, helium etc are created in stars and exploding stars. This is observable fact.
Everything around you was created from stars.
As your more interested in facts, then try a little study before letting your god delusion blind you to the true facts of the universe.

I already know the truth. You are still fishing.

Oh aye!!! some supernatural mythical beings done it all and run away!!! LOL Some truth!!!!!



G