11 States Fuel Islamic Civil War in Somalia

• Somali Islamists declare 'jihad' on Ethiopia CNN
• How Bush created a regional war in Africa Bits of News
• U.N.: War aid threatens to ignite dynamite keg of Somalia CNN

The Supreme Islamic Courts Council is gearing up to over throw federal forces in Somalia. East Africa is about to turn into one giant jihad and a good example how those political mantras about fighting a just war on terror is more farce than reality.

Nero is fiddling...

Originally posted by Regenmacher
East Africa is about to turn into one giant jihad and a good example how those political mantras about fighting a just war on terror is more farce than reality.

People of the world sit there on there Arses complaining this War on Terror is a farce while the whole thing is unfolding before there eyes.

The US isnt God they cant go sort out every blue on this planet, they are already overstretched while the useless good for nothing UN sits there playing pass the Veto.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
People of the world sit there on there Arses complaining this War on Terror is a farce while the whole thing is unfolding before there eyes.

The US isnt God they cant go sort out every blue on this planet, they are already overstretched while the useless good for nothing UN sits there playing pass the Veto.

I already put my time in the Army and I damn well will call it a farce, when the US lacks the vision to know what evil is and has created more of it in the process. So you can save that "US isn't God" garbage for yourself, since it condones more irresponsible bench warming lunacy.

A farce is what it is and when a real crisis arises, we are too tied up with our hands in the corporate cookie jar devising ways to commit fraud and shuffling the stink of guilt off us to even attempt to play the role of the good sheppard.

History is not shaped by silence, nor is evil defeated by making excuses for it.

NumberCruncher, did you even bother to read the related links? The whole situation began to blow out of proportion when US agents began making all the warlords money by claiming there were Terrorists in order to get paid to fight them by the CIA. I am frankly pissed off that my tax money, and millions of the rest of us was used to perpetuate unjust battles, and even went into the hands of those who raped, extorted, and terrorized the citizenry. The only terrorists there were the warlords who have been mostly kicked out of Southern Somalia by the Islamic Courts.

They tried to negotiate a peace deal recently with a member of the government, and it was subsequently rejected, whereupon the government militias of Puntland pre-emptively attacked the courts. It resulted in the capture of two tank with Ethiopian markings and eleven technicals.

I feel so bad. The battle has now begun.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
they are already overstretched while the useless good for nothing UN sits there playing pass the Veto.

I am not going to try to decide who is to blame, but I do think that the part of the statment quoted above is correct.

Failer to act is what caused Europe to fall to the Germans.

The UN is only as powerufl as the member-states will to do anything. The UN is made up of members, and if those members refuse to participate, of course the Un is going to fail. Do not blame the UN, blame its members, because they are the ones who make the decisions.

The UN Report is Baseless Propaganda- Says Somalia's Islamist

Shiek Hassan Dahir Aweys, the UIC judiciary leader said "The UN report is baseless propaganda collected by people who want inflict harm on Islamic Courts success in Somalia", reiterating that it was even far from the truth.

Speaking with Reuters, Aweys said the United Nations would lose its faith in Somalia with spreading reports like this which he said was inappropriately put together.

Abdirahman Mudey, the Courts information secretary, said that a report written by individuals would do nothing to change Islam and the country, pointing the report writers as people who know nothing about Somalia.

What I want to know is when the UN will provide evidence to substantiate this intelligence of foreign powers other than Ethiopia and Eritrea are funneling arms to Somalia. While I am not doubting that some are, after all Somalia has been rife with heavy guns, ground and anti-air artillery for much longer than the Islamic Courts has even been a presence, where is the evidence?

How are they coming about this information? where are the registry numbers or national identification of the air and sea transports brignign them in? Why is there no video footage? Obviously they can easily be monitoring from the sea, but if they have no physical evidence to bring forward, how do we know for sure they are passsing on reliable intelligence?

It has already been state3d in this thread and many others how corrupt the UN has become. Proper intelligence is always backed up with surveillance, testimonials, or documents. We have yet to even HEAR of any of these except what the UN is stating. Considering that the council leaders are being interviewed by Reuters, I am inclined to believe at least somewhat of what the citizens of Somalia, with the physcial presence of international journalists are stating.

Lets face it, Somali is not a widely spoken language in the world, and their is not too much color variation there. even wit that, how easy do you think it would be for international spies to simply mingle in with some of them without being recognized as an outsider? They are a close knit people, and have said so many times. I would assume any foreign espionage would quickly be identified before they could even get close to gathering the information they need.

and like I said, if it is simply surveillance from a distance, where are the evidence that backs up any respectible credible intelligence before it is passed on to the world as fact? I am not doubting it, I just want to see the evidence. Should not be so hard if they are absolute in their belief of the reliability of the inteligence.

I hope you people are at leats gathering the bigger part of the story here. It probably won't be but a few months before it comes up in the news, and I would hate to hear ignorant people talking about "nuking the country of Somalia because it is nothing but terrorists". and how evil and crazy these terrorists are. That is not what they are.

It seems to be going from bad to worse...



The Middle East war now extends from Afghanistan to Lebanon, Iraq, Israel, and Somalia.... and perhaps most of East Africa soon.

Honestly Regen, if you ever remember reading Orwell's 1984, you may be able to remember that this is almost the exact same area that the three global regions constantly fought over in the book.

But hey, the Islamists are attempting there best to provide relief utilizing what little resources they have.Somalia’s Islamic Courts leaders set on a helping campaign for flood victims.
The two senior leaders of the Union of the Islamic Courts Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys and Sheik Sharif Sheik Ahmed have today held a press conference in the capital Mogadishu, appointing a committee assigned to assist Somalia’s flood victims.

Shekh Sharif and Sheikh Aweys
This committee composing of 15 persons will assess the devastations inflicted by the torrential rains that triggered the Somalia’s rivers to burst its banks, destroying wide range hectares of farming lands and killing thousands of animals.

Sheik Sharif, the Islamic Courts executive council leader, said it was the time Somalis should help one another.

Sheik Dahir Aweys, the Islamic Courts judiciary leader, has incited Somalis in general to extend helping hand to their fellow citizens, warning the Islamist fighters not to harm the international aid agencies flights that might land in Somalia to assist flood-hit victims.

In other news, now Eritrea is calling this UN report a Fairy Tale.

Reuters

ASMARA, Nov 18 (Reuters) - A U.N. report that Eritrea and other nations are sending arms and troops into Somalia amid a brewing conflict is a "fairy-tale" intended to tarnish the burgeoning Islamist movement, Asmara said on Saturday.

The report to the U.N. Security Council said at least seven nations -- including Eritrea -- were providing arms and supplies to Islamists, who want Somalia ruled by sharia law, while three were arming the largely impotent interim government.

"These baseless and ungrounded accusations are intended to hit two targets," said an editorial in the government-owned Eritrea Profile, a bi-weekly newspaper.

"One: tarnishing and changing the countenance of the movement created out of internal political dynamism of Somalis...Two: by fabricating a fairy-tale with regard to neighbouring countries."

The Red Sea state slammed the United States for supporting Mogadishu's warlords -- whom the Islamists ousted in battles throughout the first half of the year -- and for fomenting conflict in Somalia.

"The people and Government of Eritrea do strongly object (to) the unjustified intervention pursued by the U.S. as well as its mercenaries and other external forces," the editorial added.

Well the UN has really pissed them off.

Egypt denies supporting Somali Islamic movement
People's Daily Online, China
Egypt: Report on Somalia embargo violations false
Jerusalem Post, Israel
Countries protest over Somalia arms report
Reuters.uk, UK
Uganda to protest against UN Somalia report
Reuters
Libya denies arming Islamists in Somalia
Reuters AlertNet, UK
Libya denies arming Islamists in Somalia
Reuters South Africa, South Africa

Like I said before though, I do not doubt weapons are coming in from foreign nations, after all these people have remained armed with all of the world's various light and heavy weapons since 1991. And yes, American, Russian, and European weapons find their way there as well. I, as I am sure many in the world, would wish to see the evidence they have gathered to back up the intelligence passed on to fuel this report.

I see Somalia had two choices and picked the lesser of two evils. Since they already had their fill of Western style aid w/strings, I wouldn't expect them to go back for more of the same, especially after seeing Iraq turn into a hell hole.

The irony is that they will remain dependent on outsiders and continue to have virtually no economy, until they stop shooting each other.

It all smells evil to me, regardless of who is taking a turn at strirring the pot...



[edit on 18-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

Regen, they have stopped shooting at each other. The cities under their control are now without violnce as a regular thing. The arms dealers in the markets have very little business. People are venturing out without having to be forced to pay from walking block to block.

I don't see this movement as evil at all, quite the opposite.

Originally posted by DYepes
Regen, they have stopped shooting at each other.

I have yet to see them stop shooting, and have yet to see any hook in the nose insitutionalized religon that teaches self-empowerment and independence as a priority.

Somali Islamists fire on protesters



[edit on 18-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

"One person was shot dead and two others have been wounded," an Islamist source who declined to be named said.

"They were burning tyres and throwing stones at Islamic Courts troops who opened fire."

from your source. They were under attack from a very large crowd. Flaming petro-products and heavy stones can be fatal to unprotected people, especially considering they are not equipped with full body armor, shields and helmets. Niether do they have any rubber bullets or tasers or water cannons. Now considering that scenario, could you explain to me please, how else this situatino could have been resolved? Although, I suppose they now have something in common with the IDF


They were disposing illicit drugs. Be thankful they were not selling it right back out on the streets, like the DEA.

I was referring to the overall shooting that occured day-to-day between the general populace in their cities. The nation is in the middle of an independance movement, and problems will arrise. Lets not forget that shooting happens all of the time for no reason at all, especially in the developed world. Israel levels whole cities in revenge strikes, affecting millions. Europeans and America invade whole nations, affecting millions. Yet if an Islamic movement rises up to try and bring stability to a nation that has suffered under the tyranny of warlords in Anarchy for 15 years, even being aided by the biggest power on Earth, they must be scrutinized and judged with extreme prejudice (and I definetly put emphasis on prejudice).

have yet to see any hook in the nose insitutionalized religon that teaches self-empowerment and independence as a priority.

Are you saying that we do not want independant, self-empowered people? Thats borderline slavery there you know.

Originally posted by DYepes
Now considering that scenario, could you explain to me please, how else this situatino could have been resolved?

They could of resolved it by not passing iron fisted draconian laws and subjugating the citizens to new rules that seek to destroy their culture. The Africans have been chewing khat for decades and helps them deal with the anxiety of war, hunger and the dreadful desert climate. I don't buy into the Stalin approach dissent and never will. I don't buy destruction and murder as a means either.

Originally posted by DYepes
Are you saying that we do not want independant, self-empowered people? Thats borderline slavery there you know.

No that's not what I said at all...read it again. Rephrased: humanity in general should teach self empowerment, not preach skewed dogmas designed to keep people subservient, oppressed and dependent. They have yet to receive decent role models, just more of the same crap in another flavor.

They're still shooting each other and their economy will not grow under such conditions:
SOMALIA: Ethiopia military convoy ambushed by Islamic forces Eritrea Daily
Witnesses: Islamic fighters hit Ethiopian army MSNBC

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

They are not shooting each other, they are shooting at Ethiopian troops, which have invaded their country, and supported the imposed government. At least they are attacking the right people. America was attacked by Saudis, and then conquered two nations, one of which had absolutely to the attack as admitted by the President himself.

Lets not forget that it was the government that made the first attack against the Courts AFTER they rejected a peace deal. Everyone that was forced out before that were cruel and merciless warlords.

Remember, 99% of the population is Islam. Khat is simply another drug that leads to broken homes and irrational actions, much like alcohol, marijuana, or coc aine. these protestors are few and far from representing the majority of the nations desires. Just junkies who miss their fix.

Don't fret, if the imposed government somehow succeeds, things will go back to the way they were earlier this year, and for a decade and a half before that. the country will be returned to the warlords, paid by the US, and the unvoted politicians will continue to collect their paychecks without providing anything to anyone outside of their city. Women and girls will be raped at will with no justice, gun battles will be a regular occurence again in the cities and the citizens will be extorted every few blocks to travel in their city, or face death. If you remember anything you have read, you will see that much of that has been staved off since the courts rose to power.

I tell you what, it sounds like heaven before the Isamic Courts took power. I am sure the innocent citizenry cannot wait to go back to the way it was prior this.

try to remember, the Western nations have much more sophisticated and well funded propoganda to demonize any who they wish. like you know, train you to only focus on the negatives and completely forget and ignore that ANY good has come across.

Originally posted by DYepes
The UN is only as powerufl as the member-states will to do anything. The UN is made up of members, and if those members refuse to participate, of course the Un is going to fail. Do not blame the UN, blame its members, because they are the ones who make the decisions.

I think that there are too many countries who want the U.S. to be reduced in power. I also think that alot of people want Israel to be neutralized. And finally Islam is being underestimated, out of fear but also out of not taking this threat of global domination that Islam is trying to achieve seriously.

Originally posted by DYepes
try to remember, the Western nations have much more sophisticated and well funded propoganda to demonize any who they wish. like you know, train you to only focus on the negatives and completely forget and ignore that ANY good has come across.

They are shooting each other, were neighbors can be from Salafist to Qutubis, town to town, or country to country as all of east Africa is a proxy battleground and people are used as pawns from multiple sides. I think they would love to have all extremist nuthobs and corporate interests to get the hell out of their country.

As for khat, it is more akin to drinking coffee, millions of somalis chew it and has been normal part of their life for centuries. The ICU also banned smoking and these Draconian laws have nothing to do with promoting peace, freedom or liberty. They are mechanisms of domination and control that fill the jails, breed anger and cause more polarization. People don't like to be forced or compelled, and it will have enormous blowback.

Meanwhile, the lesser demon Aweys reveals his greater plan to take over all of East Africa in his lust for expanding control, power and enslavement. He's really going to win friends and make peace with this.



As one evil steps out, another steps in...it's still evil and I am not brainwashed to keep making excuses for any of it. War of the demons would be an appropriate label.



[edit on 19-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

Well I stated it befoe, Aweys is the radical of the group, and his beliefs are not one that I am fond of. He is pretty much the main reason washington is not happy with this and trying to demonize the whole group.

I suppose the only thing we can do is wait for it all to unfold. If the Somalis decide this is not for them, well then we will see them take action. Obviously they do not have a problem expressing their angst.

I present here now more insight to question the credibiltiy of the full report on weapons shipments to Somalia. I will denote some of the most important parts in bold.

The most startling revelation in the report deals with 720 Somali fighters who are alleged to have traveled to Lebanon to join the fighting against the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) last July. There were no reports from the IDF during or after the war regarding any "Africans" observed, captured or killed in the fighting. UN observers and journalists also failed to mention Somali fighters. In exchange for the fighters, Hezbollah is said to have shipped arms to Somalia and arranged for further supplies from Syria and Iran.

The fighters were allegedly chosen by Adan Hashi Ayro, the right-hand man to ICU leader Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys. Presumably, they were from Ayro's own command, as it is hard to see him being able to separate another coalition leader from his fighters in the middle of an intensifying conflict. With an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 trained fighters in the ICU, the decision to send fighters to Lebanon would have stripped the Somali Islamists of nearly a third of their best men. Hezbollah did not even commit its reserves during the fighting with Israel, yet according to the report, Hezbollah shipped arms, which it needed in the middle of a war, to Somalia in exchange for foreign fighters that it did not need. According to the UN document, 600 Somali fighters remained in Lebanon and Syria for further training, while five Hezbollah military advisers went to Somalia to help the ICU. A Hezbollah representative described the allegations as "incorrect and silly" (Daily Star [Beirut], November 16). After several days of silence on the matter, Israel's ambassador to the UN, Dan Gillerman, issued a surprising statement claiming that Israel "had been aware" of 700 Somali fighters in Lebanon (Israel Insider, November 18).

Hezbollah's effectiveness is in large part due to its own security and intelligence network, based on intimate knowledge of its members. While Palestinian movements are riddled with informers, Israeli intelligence has had great difficulty penetrating Hezbollah. It is unlikely that Hezbollah would attempt to integrate 700 unknown Somalis in the midst of military operations against Israel.

One of the report's additional surprising claims concerns Iranian attempts to secure Somali uranium in exchange for arms. Somalia is estimated to have 6,600 tons of recoverable uranium, which is difficult and expensive to extract. In 1984, a Brazilian/Somali joint venture attempted to develop the Somali uranium resources, but the effort collapsed due to financial and logistical problems. There have been no mining activities since as a result of ongoing security difficulties and high recovery costs that would make operations in Somalia uneconomical. Iran has opened 10 uranium mines since 1988. Proven reserves total about 3,000 tons, a sufficient amount to fuel Iran's nuclear program.

ICU Deputy Security Chief Sheikh Mukhtar Robow Abu-Mansur described the report as "a matter of laughing," suggesting that the ICU would be quite rich if it were actually in the uranium business. The sheikh added: "How can we receive arms from Arab countries while American warships patrol the Somali coastline and the planes landing [in Somalia] are also under tight surveillance?" (Garowe Online, November 16). ICU leader Sheikh Aweys warned that the United Nations risked losing its legitimacy by issuing "baseless propaganda" (Shabelle Media Network, November 16). The report's claims are remarkably similar to accusations that appeared in the U.S. National Intelligence Estimates of September 2002, during the build-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The UN report mixes legitimate concerns about arms supplies to both sides of Somalia's latest incarnation of its civil war with recycled allegations from the campaign against Saddam Hussein and what can only be regarded as politically manipulated "intelligence," creating a vast international conspiracy between unlikely partners. The failure of the report to even examine information of U.S. support to the failed "Anti-Terrorist Coalition" is a major blow to its authority. Its suggestion that Iran might find a source of uranium for its nuclear program in Somalia appears outlandish under present conditions. Much of the material simply reiterates unsupported allegations involving Iran, Egypt and Libya issued by TFG Prime Minister Ali Muhammad Gedi in July. Most surprising is the ease with which so many countries were apparently able to transport arms and men back and forth without interference from the U.S. naval force off Somalia and last summer's air and sea blockade of Lebanon by Israel.

The Jamestown Foundation