World without religion?!?!?

I've read alot lately on ATS about how religion was supposedly created to control the masses, and thats all it is.

About how religion causes all wars and all wars are fought over religions, etc.

People who go to and attend a church, especially the Catholic church, none of these people think for themselves, etc.

Do any of you HONESTLY believe that anything would change without religion? Would the world really be better?

Would not the problems inherent in this world still exist without religion?

I personally believe the world would be lost without religion. Wars would still be fought and people would still be killed for their beliefs. People would find other institutions to put their blind faith in. If it weren't, like everyone claims it is, Christians killing muslims killing jews killings christians killing buddhists killing atheists killing christians killing agnostics, then it would more likely just be Americans killing Asians killing Germans killing Iraqis killing Palestinians, and on and on.

I hope you all see what I'm getting at. None of this fighting and killing is really a direct result of religion. Its just over different beliefs than it would be if there were no religions.
I personally think nothing would change in this world, and likely things would decay much further than they have already if there was no religion.

I don't know. What are all your guys' opinions?

Religion is definitely behind much of the hatred running ramped throughout the planet at the moment, and throughout history, however, I do agree if we abolished religion, people would find some other reason(money/power) to kill each other.



[edit on 11/9/2006 by pstiffy]

I don't think it would make any difference if the world was without religion. People will always find some reason to attack others because they feel they are in someway superior to others.

That was quick, i just posted this thread and like a minute later two people posted. Thats the great thing i like about ATS, everyone is quick to respond, post their opinions and points of view, and discussions take off quickly.



Keep 'em coming. What about you guys that think the world would be better without religion?

Instead of worshipping Allah or God or Jesus or Jehovah, would people not turn to "worshipping" figureheads, heads of state, very charismatic leaders, and blindly do as they say?

I think religion also kind of acts as a buffer to the secular world. It helps keep people from following a leader of government blindly, etc., and in most cases at least gets people to think before they act.

The deceiver has used religion to blind the world from seeing that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah.

Pure Christianity is not a religion, it is the truth.

Religion is used to control the world by hiding the truth.

Well,I have been one of those who have said that church goers don't think for themselves. Why do I say it? Because it is indeed the truth. Most that I have encountered would rather go to a church and listen to what their priest or pastor has to say,rather than to figure it out for themselves. How do I know? Anything that is the opposite of what their pastor says, they lash out at!! That's how I know!!

Is religion the cause of all wars. No. It's not the singular cause, but if you look at any war, there is always religious beliefs involved in it. Do I think the world would be better without religion? I would never concede to the dismantlement of religion. No. I think it does bring a lot of good to the world. A sense of meaning,charity,compassion,etc... However, over the last 1500 years, I am not sure if it has brought enough of that to outweigh the wars it has helped to promulgate.

There are good and bad things that religion does for the world.

On one hand, it gives people a purpose... it also gives people a reason to strive for virtue and to treat others with respect (in general anyway).

Some who don't have religion and a belief of heaven/hell might cheat, steal, and generally do selfish things because they aren't afraid of an afterlife and instead are more focused on their own self-fulfillment.

On the other hand, others see that there's more fulfillment in living more of a selfless life, despite the lack of believing in a fearful place such as hell (like myself).

I'd say at this point in time, religion is still necessary for some. Eventually humanity will grow out of this stage... some people already have.

Religion fills a need for some. Purpose. Without something else to take it's place it could be bad.

I think a world without religion would be better in the future, but right now we're going through a transitional period and it's still needed.

Once the greater part of humanity realises that we do have a purpose that doesn't require worshiping some deity, and once we learn more self-control and think logically instead of letting emotions dictate our actions... then we can have a world without religion. It's already happening slowly. All it takes is a change of perception.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well,I have been one of those who have said that church goers don't think for themselves. Why do I say it? Because it is indeed the truth. Most that I have encountered would rather go to a church and listen to what their priest or pastor has to say,rather than to figure it out for themselves. How do I know? Anything that is the opposite of what their pastor says, they lash out at!! That's how I know!!

I am a Catholic ( not officially, have not yet joined church, but will and thats what i consider myself) and I think for myself. I go to church and accept what my Father says as the truth. However, i am not one to crucify someone for not believing what i do. I agree with you though, for alot of church goers, most don't think for themselves. I personally think that most people need to be told what to do and what to believe, because everything in church doctrine has taken a very long time of studying, and praying, etc., for all the beliefs etc., to come about. Most people just don't have the time to study scripture that indepth, to understand it and get anything out of it.

Do you not believe that people need to be told what to do quite often? Do you think people can be told what to do, how to worship, etc., yet still think for themselves?

Originally posted by soshootme
[Do you not believe that people need to be told what to do quite often? Do you think people can be told what to do, how to worship, etc., yet still think for themselves?

No and No. I don't think people need to be told what to do at all. You see, that is where politics and religion both make its mistakes. It operates under thee assumption that people need to be told what to do,what to believe,how to do it. I don't think so. People already know what they individually need to do. Now whether they do it is a whole other issue.

Why should I need a pastor to tell me how to worship? I do quite well on my own,thank you!! No complaints yet. Really, why should I be told what to believe? To me, that is almost cultic.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

No and No. I don't think people need to be told what to do at all. You see, that is where politics and religion both make its mistakes. It operates under thee assumption that people need to be told what to do,what to believe,how to do it. I don't think so. People already know what they individually need to do. Now whether they do it is a whole other issue.

Why should I need a pastor to tell me how to worship? I do quite well on my own,thank you!! No complaints yet. Really, why should I be told what to believe? To me, that is almost cultic.


That kind of thinking is also what causes cults to form, is it not?

Do you think democracy could operate without people being told what to do? Or would we fall they wayside of anarchy?

Originally posted by soshootme

That kind of thinking is also what causes cults to form, is it not?

I suppose. I certainly cannot think of an example of it,but I suppose that it could.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Yes, the first major organized religions of civilization were meant to control the population. Yes, ancient Egypt made this really evident. HOWEVER this is not an element of religion. It is an element of using religion for population control. If I use a base ball bat to break into a car are all baseball bats now instruments of theft and not fun? Of course not.

So what religion was used to control people at one time?

Yes many followers of the large organized churches do loose sight of their own abilities and ignorance but not all are.

Dont make connections with thin wires. They always break.

Yes many followers of the large organized churches do loose sight of their own abilities and ignorance but not all are.

Dont make connections with thin wires. They always break.

Well,obviously, what I say about churchgoers is a huge generalization.. I have never denied that. Hell,I have been to church before too. I actually think that for some people,it may be necessary. I just find it somewhat confining for myself, to take a pastor or a priests word for something,when I can go and study and pray about it and decide for myself.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well,obviously, what I say about churchgoers is a huge generalization.. I have never denied that. Hell,I have been to church before too. I actually think that for some people,it may be necessary. I just find it somewhat confining for myself, to take a pastor or a priests word for something,when I can go and study and pray about it and decide for myself.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Thats what i'm saying. Do you believe in any churches doctrine?
If you do, yet are able to study, pray, etc., on your own and get something out of it, the more power to you

You are an example of someone who can study, pray, and what not, because you have the time and resources, and i can assume the mental capability. Yet alot of people don't have the time, resources, or mental capabilities.

You see what I'm getting at?
Organized religion is not a bad thing, yet for most of the clergy it is necessary.

Originally posted by soshootme



Thats what i'm saying. Do you believe in any churches doctrine?

Well,certainly. I surely have the morals of most mainstream Christians. I do believe that Jesus Christ was savior.

Religion is not bad. I think it is something,unfortunately, that has been used as a tool for "evil." Like I said, I would never concede to the dismantlement of religion. Never,never. I think that it is an importent aspect of society.

First of all I would like to say that I believe money is the reason for most everything, especially wars. It's not so much that we have a need to abolish religion, but a need to move beyond the need to be so divided and uninformed. We need the truth, and I'm sorry but there is no one religion that is pure truth, no matter how much you would like it to be.

People would indeed move on to worshiping other things if religion were simply abolished. What i think most of the people that say we need to get rid of religion are saying is that we need to learn the truth about life (learning the whole truth if even possible will be very difficult). We need to be free of oppression, thinking that our faith is superior to others' faiths while they same the same thing about their faith.

Humans are not ready for a world without religion, but once we become more spiritually developed we can then move beyond religion and simply love one another. While many enlightened teachers throughout time have taught this (love) to us, we have failed to listen. Only time will tell if humans will start truly living the words of all of the beings of love and light that have presented themselves throughout history. (and when i say beings i'm not necessarily saying from somewhere other than earth)

Good posts!!!

Well, I do believe we will get to a point where everything, truth and all, will be naturally understood. However, I don't think this will happen until God restores his kingdom on earth. Because then, as we would all be with God, there wouldn't be "religion" anymore, just the natural way of things. Understand this idea?
It will be just as it was in the Garden of Eden. There was no "religion" in Eden, because they were basically in the presence of God at all times, therefore had no need for it. Hope you all understand what i'm trying to say.

Thats just my opinion.

Everyone talks about one-world religion this, one-world religion that, and the NWO and all. But, if humanity does ultimately discover the Truth, it would be undeniable in the face of all belief systems, and would therefore become universal---a one world religion.

In the face of truth, if one would not change to be congruent with the truth, then he is throwing himself to the lions.

Soshootme

Originally posted by soshootme



Everyone talks about one-world religion this, one-world religion that, and the NWO and all. But, if humanity does ultimately discover the Truth, it would be undeniable in the face of all belief systems, and would therefore become universal---a one world religion.

In the face of truth, if one would not change to be congruent with the truth, then he is throwing himself to the lions.

Soshootme

That's exactly why I say that no religion,as it presently exists, is infallible!! If there were one, it would not even be argued. If the truth is the total truth, then there is nothing to argue. Good post ,soshootme.

I am a Spiritual Anarchist and have written my views many times on ATS on the subject. Would the world be better without religion? I do believe so.

Would I like to see all religions removed from the world today? NO!

As a Spiritual Anarchist I believe that the soul will only be free when it has over thrown the chains that have been placed upon it by religion. That can only be done by the individual. I cannot free the chains on your mind and soul, only you can do that.

Until the human spirit that fills the pews and keeps religion relavent comes to terms with its own divinity, religion will always play an important part in mankinds growth.

Religion (IMO) is like training wheels for the spiritual soul. Just as you once took the training wheels off your bike, you will someday remove the training wheels that is religion.

Then you can ride up and down the block on your own, but no further until you get allot older

Love and light my friends,

Originally posted by soshootme
Well, I do believe we will get to a point where everything, truth and all, will be naturally understood. However, I don't think this will happen until God restores his kingdom on earth. Because then, as we would all be with God, there wouldn't be "religion" anymore, just the natural way of things. Understand this idea?
It will be just as it was in the Garden of Eden. There was no "religion" in Eden, because they were basically in the presence of God at all times, therefore had no need for it.

Thats a great concept if I may say so, bu how long do you think it will take to get to that stage? Too many people today would still say that God is impossible, depending on (perhaps) the idea used. Even with absolute proof people would still probably deny it.