ALL MEMBERS READ - Moving Past Religion 101 and Staying on Topic

The Faith, Religion, and Theology forum exists as a place for member to discuss three important items.

• Faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
  
• Religion - A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
  
• Theology - The study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions.
  

Venturing into this forum and participating in these discussions implies that you are interested in these topics. Of course you may have accidentally stumbled into this forum unaware, but now that you're read the above definitions, you can't claim ignorance. The very nature of the topics will plunge you headlong into the unknown. Who created us? Why are we here? What is out purpose in life? What happens after we die? Will the Dallas Cowboys ever win a Super bowl again? (Requires much faith to believe).

Some of the topics in this forum will most certainly deal with the existence of God. Does God really exist? While this is a worthwhile topic many members wish to move past this introductory theme, past Religion 101, and would like to dive into deeper topic of religion and faith. Are Christians required to keep all of the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath day? Are the teachings of Mohammed peaceful, a beneficial for people today? Do Mormons really believe in polygamy? Do all Buddhist monks have flashbacks before battle? We can't begin to truly discuss these topics if we're constantly arguing about if God is real or not.

If you have questions that deal with the existence of God or want to ask if Mohammed actually was a real person or a myth, then please start a new discussion with a meaningful, appropriate title and you may then dominate a new discussion with this theme in mind. Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being? Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.

Don’t forget that there are several other forums that deal heavily with religion were the existence of a God isn’t taken for granted. Conspiracies in Religion constantly deals with the issue of religion being simply a fictitious control mechanism for manipulating the masses (Sheeple to some). Origins & Creationism Conspiracy is a fantastic forum for debating evolution vs. intelligent design. These two forms regularly deal with most of issues that usually distract from deeper topics in this forum.

To sum things up. Let's stay on topic and allow discussions to take place without constant interference.

Thanks.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by dbates]

I don't mean to come off snippy or anything and I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing as some people seem to think my words intend.

However:

Athiesm is also a belief system. We believe there is no god-being. I personally feel that we have as much right to debate and discuss in this forum as anyone. I fail to understand why it's OK for WiseSheep and others to refute our disbelief in athiesm threads but we cannot debate Christian beliefs in belief threads. If I were a Yoruba priestess, would my debating Christians be welcome, where my belief there is no god is not?

And I can't speak for any other athiest/agnostic in this forum, but for myself, I am still not nearly ready to tackle ATS on a daily basis. I enjoy BTS and find myself quite comfortable and at home here. This is why I discuss belief and such issues here and not on ATS.

I think the main issue is that people who believe in god do not accept that others' disbelief is as valid a form of religious expression as their own.

Just my two cents.

So, instead of arguing if God exists we start to actually talk about the topic that the original poster put on the heading? right?
The Questions you mentioned well, one in particular sparked my intrest which was are Christians supposed to keep the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath Day? I believe it could be answered like this If all we are commanded of from Jesus is to Love your God, and he came to fullfil the Law, then we can say we are to Love the Lord our God with all our Heart, Mind, and strength all the rest of the commandments did not dissappear though but rather stated like this example: If your father lays down the rule for you to follow you do them correct? this is out of respect and obedience now there is no question the father loves his son but to show our love back we obey his commands

sorry for lack of proofreading but i hope that shined some light in that subject

God bless

As a moderator on another website I have to work very hard to keep my own biases out of the functioning of the forum. I'm sorry but I detect a strong theistic bias in the first post in this thread.

While I agree that the discussion should be kept civil, it seems like unwarranted censorship to limit it to only the theistic aspects. For example, a discussion of the Decalogue (10 commandments) could certainly include whether each is valid, as stated, in present society; which set of commandments in the bible should Christians follow; whether documents earlier than the bible contained the same commandments; whether the commandments are an adequate basis for ethics.

Since there is no non-faith section of BTS, I notice that a number of threads have been started by non-theists. Strangely, the theists have been quite willing to enter into the discussion and bring many off-topic, more religious ideas into the posts. Do you feel they should be limited from doing this?

Occam

What's the point? The point is this.....

When someone starts a thread about their religious belief they should be able to talk about THEIR religious belief without having to defend it's validity to everyone. This is not just a recent problem as we have been having these issues for some time. Typically what happens is a thread dealing with faith is started and immediately gets sidetracked by those that don't believe or believe in something different than the stated topic.

If you have an opinion contrary to an existing thread you should feel absolutely free to start a thread of your own that deals with that subject matter. Don't derail the current thread in an attempt to show how their belief is wrong or that they have been mislead or whatever. The form is for the discussion of FAITH not proof.

Obviously there are threads that solicit both opinions like the all too popular "No-Holds Barred Battle Over the Existence of God". Well obviously it's ok that both sided mix it up because that is what the thread is dealing with. But if a member starts a thread titled "Does Jesus want us to...", we don't want people jumping into the thread demanding proof that Jesus existed or trying to prove Jesus was not the son of God.

The opening post of this Guideline thread clearly illustrates the point:

"Some of the topics in this forum will most certainly deal with the existence of God.......Are Christians required to keep all of the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath day? Are the teachings of Mohammed peaceful, a beneficial for people today? Do Mormons really believe in polygamy? Do all Buddhist monks have flashbacks before battle? We can't begin to truly discuss these topics if we're constantly arguing about if God is real or not."

I'm sure you get the point.

I've just completed a quick survey and noticed the following:

The most active threads in the "faith" forum are about challenging religion and the existence of god.

Many of the active threads have been started by non-theists.

Even the active threads by theists are often focused on these same areas.

The conspiracy in religion forum in ATS doesn't really fit the above discussions, and the threads there are of a very different sort than the ones in BTS.

While the topics listed by the moderator ["Some of the topics in this forum will most certainly deal with the existence of God.......Are Christians required to keep all of the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath day? Are the teachings of Mohammed peaceful, a beneficial for people today? Do Mormons really believe in polygamy? Do all Buddhist monks have flashbacks before battle? We can't begin to truly discuss these topics if we're constantly arguing about if God is real or not."] sound worthwhile for the theists, I didn't see any of those members starting any of those topics as threads.

I suggest that rather than complaining about what is being discussed, those who want to discuss the above topics start threads focused on them. I promise that we non-theists will stay away. However, when you start threads challenging the beliefs of non-theists it seems reasonable for them to respond (even if you start the thread in the faith section).

Occam

Originally posted by Occam
However, when you start threads challenging the beliefs of non-theists it seems reasonable for them to respond (even if you start the thread in the faith section).

I already said:

Obviously there are threads that solicit both opinions like the all too popular "No-Holds Barred Battle Over the Existence of God". Well obviously it's ok that both sided mix it up because that is what the thread is dealing with. But if a member starts a thread titled "Does Jesus want us to...", we don't want people jumping into the thread demanding proof that Jesus existed or trying to prove Jesus was not the son of God.

Then I think it would be good to get those great in the knowledge and words of God to fight the athesis.

I have to agree with dbates on this one (even though it pains me to do so. j/k )

If you want to argue about God's existence, don't do it in a thread titled, "How did you come to find Jesus?" ... It's OFF TOPIC.

If you want to talk about atheism or argue the existence of God or the validity of the bible, start a thread or answer in an existing thread titled, "Hey, You Atheists! What Gives?" or ""Does God Exist?" or "The Bible is Valid and Here's Why"

Don't go into every thread in the forum and tell everyone how their beliefs are wrong. Make a thread, "Your Beliefs are Wrong and Here's Why".

Before you post, ask yourself, "Is this ON TOPIC according to the title and original post"? If not, go find or start another thread.

Now, there are some threads that are just BEGGING for disagreement to the assumptions. Then go ahead, disagree. Voice your opinion, but don't then turn the thread around to make it all about the disagreement. Say your piece and move on. Let the thread get back on topic. Start your own.

This is just my opinion.

Thanks, BH, for that sagacious bit of advice. It's difficult in the extreme to try presenting bible verses, deep and controversial concepts, etc. when you have to keep interrupting a train of thought to deal with some nay-sayer who only wants to remind you that you're stupid to believe in any of it.

I've dealt with tithing, keeping commandments, "proper" sabbath days and other issues germaine to Christian beliefs only to be told in so many words that I'm a fool.
[I get it. You're atheist. Thank you for your input. Now can we get back to the topic at hand?]

I do appreciate the atheistic point of view on the religious forums when it pertains to the topic under discussion. Atheists have as much right to their view as anyone else and I support their right to counter arguments that are pro-faith; however, I would appreciate it more if they argued on topic. Many believers also question various "issues of faith" and ask for clarification, etc. but it's just distracting to have to go back to the basics when one is trying to expound (or learn about) the deeper issues.

C.S. Lewis was once a professed atheist and argued his points very well leaving many Christians who had the unpleasant experience of debating him wishing they could crawl into a hole and hide. He has since changed his views based on logic (his words, not mine) and become a believer.

I am not on the religious forums to convert anyone but there are many believers who have been sold a bill of goods and believe ridiculous things that border on superstition. I present my opinion and let them decide. If the majority seem unwilling to hear, then I bow out and move on.
I also learn quite a bit on those forums.

I once had a friend with multiple personality disorder. We tried watching a movie (once) and she kept flipping in to a different personality and I'd have to rewind the movie and start it all over for the "new" personality to watch. Hard to get into the movie like that. The religious forums are the same when they keep getting derailed.

The religious forums are the same when they keep getting derailed.

The Internet is not 'of Christ'.

Originally posted by Jesus-Is-Real

The religious forums are the same when they keep getting derailed.

The Internet is not 'of Christ'.

then leave it and go to something that is

Christs followers are on an expedition for him. Holding his torch high, wherever they go. The internet is a perfect place for God to be. Alot of people can meet him here.

Originally posted by depth om
Christs followers are on an expedition for him. Holding his torch high, wherever they go. The internet is a perfect place for God to be. Alot of people can meet him here.

is he on myspace? or does he prefer the facebook system more?

(come on, lighten up, it's funny)

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by depth om
Christs followers are on an expedition for him. Holding his torch high, wherever they go. The internet is a perfect place for God to be. Alot of people can meet him here.

is he on myspace? or does he prefer the facebook system more?

(come on, lighten up, it's funny)

Lord may you give me strength, courage and wisdom to stay your path and resist the darkness of... the internets.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
is he on myspace? or does he prefer the facebook system more?

Dude! Jesus is, like, totally on MYSPACE (where He obviously digs country music) and FACEBOOK.

What else would you expect from an omnipresent being?

He needs to get busy, though. He spends way too much time filling out Myspace bulletin surveys.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Because Atheism isn't a religion. The courts say so. You can't have it both ways. Christians want to place their material in schools, we can't, same goes for you here. Unless you make your own thread like the Mod said, that can be your Church of Atheism

[edit on 17-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

ok, pet peeve.

someone will post -

what do you think rev 20 means when it says hell will be pitched into the lake of fire.

inevidably almost 100% of the time, the first post is

¨well the bible is a man made book used to control people¨


while i respect other´s beliefs, thats not really on topic is it?

or am i just being unreasonable?

Originally posted by miriam0566
ok, pet peeve.

someone will post -

what do you think rev 20 means when it says hell will be pitched into the lake of fire.

inevidably almost 100% of the time, the first post is

¨well the bible is a man made book used to control people¨


while i respect other´s beliefs, thats not really on topic is it?

or am i just being unreasonable?

Valid point, it's called trolling and derailing a thread. And it happens all to often. You try to have a serious discussion about something that deals with God and the bible, and immediately somebody comes in and says God doesn't exist, and the bible isn't true. The threads original creator is insulted. And that comment IS Trolling

My opinion is that in the BTS forum the Religion, Faith, And Theology section should have a stricter level of moderation on those types of comments compared to the ATS forum version

Conspiracies in Religions
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe there is where it should be wide open, and huge leeway given on comments, after all it is a conspiracy forum.

Any MODS, moderate both forum threads? Give us your thoughts.

Thank you OP. I admit, sometimes I get carried away when these threads arise. I forget what the thread is really about..