Will Republicans Steal This Election, Too?

We are a funny people, here in America. I guess that is because we are a cross-breed of myriad elements, some good, some not so good, some downright bad. In Europe, they call that mongrelizing of the populace.

The 2000 presidential election was settled in Florida. The electoral dispute centered around a statute requiring a recount of votes where the winner’s margin was 1% or less, and another statute that required the Secretary of State to announce the winner in 14 days. The 7 member Florida Supreme Court - all Democrats - said the re-count statute took precedence over the announcement statute. They reasoned a few days delay in announcing the winner would pale to the potential harm to the democratic process arbitrarily cutting off the recount would have.

The US Supreme Court decided to take the case, the first and only time in American history, and after a short debate, ruled 5 to 4 - 5 Republicans versus 4 Democrats - the Florida recount must stop on the 14th day. They justified this on the traditional grounds for deciding between conflicting laws, giving priority to the last law enacted, which was the 14 day announcement law. We were told Bush43 was 537 votes ahead of Gore when the count ended. There remained between 15,000 and 30,000 uncounted votes. Never counted. Florida’s electoral vote put Bush43 ahead by 5. 271 to 266 and 1 which abstained.

To address this unsatisfactory condition, Congress appropriated $3 billion to the states to update voting machines to eliminate the paper ballot’s “hanging chads” - punch outs that didn’t fall out - which was the downfall of Florida’s recount. Mostly wasted, it turns out. Whether the 2006 election will be free of claims of fraud or mechanical or electronic failures we’ll know a a week or two.

The real and hard lesson we learned was that every state in America has serious problems in voting and especially in vote counting. Some states actively try to prevent voting by certain voters - invariably minorities - and some use equipment which brings into question the reliability or accuracy of counting the votes. Some new electronic machines are said to be open to hackers, as in the particular case of Diebold which sold machines to a lot of Republican controlled states. Those are serious charges and cry out for an independent inquiry to restore voter’s confidence their vote actually is cast and counted. A paper trail is offered most frequently as a cure. A paper trail. What’s so hard about that?

American electoral practices are so out-moded, so lacking in uniformity, so difficult to interpret and close to impossible to enforce, that the Jimmy Carter Center has refused to monitor American elections! I’m from Ky and I can relate that in any election decided by 5,000 or fewer votes, it was really impossible to know with certainty who really won. We accepted that state of undemocratic affairs with resignation. At least I did, maybe because it was the Dems who most often won the close ones, and I was a strong supporter of the Dems. I traded short term gratification over the long term benefit of a fair election for a very poor reason.

Because I am convinced any nation that was so technologically advanced in 1969 so it could send and bring back 12 men (18) in 6 missions to the Moon, can fix the electoral system anytime it has the political will to do so. So why don’t we have the political will? Why for example, has America always - as far as I know - held elections on Tuesdays, as bad a day in the week as you can find, if your motive is to encourage popular participation. Many so-called third world countries have voted on Saturday and Sunday, for generations. When our labor unions were strong that people knew what LGW and IBEW meant the unions opted to get a half day off with pay. The power elite was glad to give that up as a half day’s pay meant northing to them. It kept millions of people who need democracy from doing the one thing every 2 or every 4 years the politicians care about.

Iceland - 600,000 voters - recently returned to paper ballots. Americans are too much technologically oriented to ever do that. The two good reforms passed by the post 2000 Congress was 1) the paper ballot alternative at every voting booth, which would be available and equally important, 2) the opportunity for any person denied the right to vote should be allowed to cast a paper ballot to be counted after it is determined if he or she was indeed eligible to vote.

What’s my advice? The best thing we could do in America is to create an electoral commission that is truly non-partisan, to oversee the entire voting and counting process. Take elections out of the hands of partisan officials. As it already is in almost every country on the planet.

But to get to the more likely things to happen: 1) Loosen voter registration, let a voter register at the time he votes. Bar code every voter to catch repeaters. 2) Reschedule elections to the first Saturday and Sunday in November. 3) Open early voting at least 10 days prior to election. 4) Develop a touch-screen voting machine - include pictures for non-English speakers - that delivers a paper “receipt” to the voter. It’s done at gas pumps millions of times a day. 5) Provide paper ballots at each voting station, for any disputed voter to use, pending a decision on voting or for people who do not want to vote electronically. 6) Continue the rule that all persons present at closing time are allowed to vote before the poll is closed.


[edit on 11/6/2006 by donwhite]

To tell you the truth I don't know what to think anymore.

The polls are having the Democrats ahead on all the open sits but one.

They can win up to 20 seats.

People all over are screaming for change.

But if on the morning of wed. after congress elections Republicans are sill holding congress I will seriously claim foul play and I hope that people will go in masses to protest.

But I got the feeling that it will be OK.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by marg6043]

The Silent Majority are the ones that will decide this election.

Republicans will remain in control of both Houses of Congress.

Roper

So why don’t we have the political will? Why for example, has America always - as far as I know - held elections on Tuesdays, as bad a day in the week as you can find, if your motive is to encourage popular participation.

Because there is no political will within the gov't. As for the general population.... well weekends are for watching football. And who really pays attention to the candidates anyways? I wouldn't doubt if we are in for another republican surprise! The reason this might happen is because>> Young people don't get out and vote!!!

A registered voter who will be outside his or her voting precinct was eligible to vote by absentee ballot via the US Postal Service. To assure the ballot was completed by the voter who applied, the voter was required to vote the ballot - mark it - in front of a notary public, an embassy official or a commissioned officer in the case of United States military personnel. That person was not to observe the actual marking of the ballot, but was to assure the person whose name was on the ballot envelope was one and the same who marked the ballot.

To accomplish this, after marking the ballot, the voter carefully placed the ballot inside an envelope provided and seals it. He then hands it to the observer who completes a form printed on the envelope. He enters the date, the voter’s name and signs the perforated form. This tag will be removed just before all otherwise unmarked ballot envelopes are readied for counting. Then he applies an embossing seal to the signature to prevent it being altered later. That envelope is in turn placed inside a preprinted return envelope addressed to the county voting authority issuing the ballot, sealed and mailed.

Florida law required the ballot be postmarked no later than election day, and that it be received by the country authority no later than 3 days after the election. More than 10,000 absentee ballots went out statewide. Most went to US servicemen and women. This is where down and dirty politics entered. It was assumed most of the military ballots would be voting Republican. The “to count, not to count” problem arose in two ways. 1) Many of the voted ballots had not been properly certified on the inside envelope as the instructions required. By law, those ballot were not to be counted.

2) Many of the military ballots bore no postmark. In Democratic counties, the ballots lacking postmarks were ruled not to be counted. The Democrats relied on the law. In Republican counties, the ballots were ruled to be counted as if they bore the proper postmark. Republicans argued this because the ballots had arrived before the allowed time had expired. The Democrats refusal to count the ballots led the Republicans to claim the Democrats were denying our service men the right to vote.


[edit on 11/6/2006 by donwhite]

Did I miss the place where you provided evidence that the election was stolen?

Or did you mean to say that there was a failed attempt to steal the election?

Will the Republicans steal the election? Only if the Democrats dont steal it first. If the Dems win it will be a perfectly run election...no need for any concern about the validity of the results. Now if they lose...then OF COURSE IT WAS STOLEN! Because we all know that there is no possible way that the Democrats could ever lose an election....because we all know that they are the chosen ones.

Are any of you concerned that employees of a support group of the Democrat party...ACORN...have been found guilty of election fraud in five states with more convictions on the way in other states. Everything from filing fraudulant voter registrations to paying people to register voting under different names....now with tatics like that there really should be no way that they could lose an election.

Well I was wrong. That hardly ever happens.

I wonder how quick "Gun control" will start?

Roper

Republicans stole the elections?... Hummm, what could be the reason that some people would claim that because the party they voted for didn't win, "it must have been a stolen election".....

I think people who make claims like this are just sore losers, and thats all. They can't fathom that the rest of the U.S. voted for a party they did not vote for.

How many times have we heard "the e-voting machines are/were rigged and nothing can be traced through such systems"...yet time and again it has been found voter fraud from both sides even after e-voting machines were used?....

This time around the Democrats won the house and the Senate, let's see what the sore losers have to say about it.

Hey, if "Republicans" can be insulted by being called "thieves", we should have free speech to call those who make such claims "losers", right?

[edit on 8-11-2006 by Muaddib]

I would hope that we don't get a case of sore-loseritis after this election. Sober analysis yes, whining and finger pointing, no.

The people have spoken and the vote will be complete eventually and we will have to live with the consequences until the next round.

Let those of us who voted for losers this time around restrain ourselves.

Personally, I voted for both Democrats and Republicans in this election and some were winners and some were losers.

Regardless of the outcome, I won, because I voted.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I would hope that we don't get a case of sore-loseritis after this election. Sober analysis yes, whining and finger pointing, no.

The GOP has every right to question the votes, especially after the rukus the Dems raised in the last two elections about voting problems. And I think they should. Not to aggrandize themselves as no complainers, but to exert additional pressure on the voting system to perfect it. We need a dependable, tamper-proof system desperately, for sheer integrity's sakes. We've got ships going to the moon and we can't even add 1's together correctly? :shk:

Regardless of the outcome, I won, because I voted.

You sure did. It is said that the GOP lost more than the Dems gained.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
You sure did. It is said that the GOP lost more than the Dems gained.

I'm sorry. I don't understand.

Someone put the electronic voting system into a good perspective on election day while some folks were carping about the paper system.

He said that everyday, our country and the world conducts business transactions amounting to billions of dollars over the internet with hardly a glitch and somehow we can't hold an election using electronic voting machines.

If there has been election fraud then it needs to be exposed, but if Republicans are only going to raise hell about the election because Democrats are sore losers, then they are no better than them.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
The GOP has every right to question the votes, especially after the rukus the Dems raised in the last two elections about voting problems.

See here is what I don't understand with some people. They have every right to question the votes if they feel something went wrong. It is their right, just like it was the Dems' rights. Just doing it to annoy someone else and get back at them is childish, and deserving of no office, regardless of party. Get over it.

And I think they should. Not to aggrandize themselves as no complainers, but to exert additional pressure on the voting system to perfect it. We need a dependable, tamper-proof system desperately, for sheer integrity's sakes. We've got ships going to the moon and we can't even add 1's together correctly? :shk:

How much will Halliburton charge for that?!? I've already said in another thread that I am calling my senators tomorrow to ask for legislation to be put through to sort out this mess. Are you going to do the same? I don't care what party does it, I just want it done!

Originally Posted By GradyPhilpottRegardless of the outcome, I won, because I voted.

You sure as hell did, and you are respected because of it, regardless of who you voted for. I told so many people, "I don't care about who you vote for, as long as you vote.

Grady, sorry. I didn't state that right. What I meant is I almost wish the GOP WOULD question the vote, so as to exert additional pressure on them to get the voting system right. That's all. Anything at all anyone can do to get that system dependable is what we need. Like niteboy, I don't care how, just get it done. Remember, I'm not a Dem or Rep. Just want a voting system that is accurate.

It would seem that the GOP didn't "steal" this election. Of course, they didn't steal the previous three before this one, either.

If there was any attempt at fraud, it needs exposure and very harsh penalties brought to bear on the guilty. The Dems now have their oppourtunity to prove their words were more than empty rhetoric...let's just say I have my doubts about a party whose majority leader, in all likelihood, is going to be Harry Reid. How is he an improvement over the GOP's? Maybe someone else will step up to give him a fight.