Anyone Know of a Good Antidote for Chemtrails?

He didnt go to jail just for making claims. If you read it all, you can see that the courts ordered him to stop, and he continued. Whether you agree with him or not, civil disobedience usually carries civil penalties.

Whats bizarre about it? Well that no serious scientist belieives in any of it, there is no scientific basis for any of it, and it just sounds like a total pile of BS to me.

If it is so real, then why hasnt any of it been proven yet?

Originally posted by firepilot
Okay, I will call you on it.

You have yet to introduce a fact into this discussion as playing the ignorant party ( by choice or by ignorance ) hardly establishes you as some kind of authority i must 'convince' of reality.

Show us where an aircrafts exhaust was sampled and showed evidence of this sinister chemtrail plot.

What is so sinister about it? It's all out in the open and your denial of it hardly makes it 'sinister'. It's like saying that people suggesting the Earth is round is part of some kind of sinister plot. While it's a nice way of dismissing what you do not want to consider your view of reality will not change reality.

Tell us why contrails can not persist.

Because they never did before.

One unique type of cloud is manmade. Contrails occur when exhaust from jet engines condenses. A narrow line of moisture makes up the contrail. Winds eventually dissipate it; in some instances conditions permit the contrail to survive for many minutes (their straight lines do distort). Contrails are believed to affect weather by raising both short and long-term temperatures (one estimate is for about a third of a degree per decade). Here is a MODIS image taken over the southeast U.S. on January 29, 2004 showing a large number of contrails (at times more than 2000 planes are over the North American continent at any one time):

rst.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Why say many minutes instead of many hours as we can observe them to last these days? I think that document was put together in the early 90's; strangely a time before all this chemtrail stuff started being considered by people. I have heard 1997 mentioned as the year people first started observing this in their skies and interestingly

"Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

DoD News Briefing
Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen

So can this speech be taken as the defense secretary admitting that they are actively starting to deal with this introduction of EM energy into American skies? Governments tend to admit enemy interference only when they have done something to start countering it in my experience. There has been much talk about metallic compounds in these 'chemtrails' and would it not make sense to release them into the areas where strange weather is observed so that the interaction of the metals and EM energy can be monitored on radar and thus visually? There is IMO vast amounts of evidence that these long lasting contrails are not appearing at random and that their location in the sky can normally be associated with 'strange' weather. I have provided a list where weird cross winds and wind shear effects can be observed acting on these contrails...

Give us something logical and thought out,

I don't consider your arguments logical or your reasoning reasonable so i am not going to pretend here that i think my arguments will have any impact on your 'defense' of the illogical and generally indefensible.

not "I feel" or a link to a chemtrail site.

What on earth is a 'chem trail' site if there is no such thing as chem trails? The guy took pictures of the sky and the sad readily apparently reality is that you have nothing but bluster and denial going for you.

Tell us in an intelligent

I am not sure what you consider 'intelligent' ( i presume any statement that agrees with you?) so i will just do my best to stick with observation over assumed bias in defense of media illusion of scientific consensus.

argument why aircraft exhaust contrail can not last long.

Because there is no historic record of them ever lasting this long or lasting this long in such volume. Contrail formation itself is damn hard to predict and it's just shear nonsense to suggest that it's hard to predict something that readily forms and last for hours on end.

Stellar

[edit on 9-11-2006 by StellarX]

Originally posted by firepilot
He didnt go to jail just for making claims.

Right; he really went to jail because a associate moved some equipment across state lines when that ruling was patently illegal to start with. He then refused to accept that the court could make such rulings on medical matters

This German immigrant described himself as the Associate Professor of Medical Psychology, Director of the Orgone Institute, President and research physician of the Wilhelm Reich Foundation, and discoverer of biological or life energy. A 1940 security investigation was begun to determine the extent of Reich's communist commitments. In 1947, a security investigation concluded that neither the Orgone Project nor any of its staff were engaged in subversive activities or were in violation of any statute within the jurisdiction of the FBI. [3]

Though Reich was cleared of suspicion of subversive activities, the FDA investigation continued. On February 10, 1954, acting on allegations in the Brady articles, they filed a complaint seeking a permanent injunction under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to prevent interstate shipment of orgone-therapy equipment and literature. [4] Reich refused to appear in court, apparently believing that no court was in a position to evaluate his work. On February 25, he wrote to Judge Clifford:

en.wikipedia.org...

So you may not discuss potential cures in America even by means of the print media? Show me another example in US medical history where this happened. This is suppression of science and free thinking at it's worse.

Because of Reich's failure to appear, Judge Clifford granted the injunction on March 19, 1954. [6] The ruling stated that all written material, including books, papers and pamphlets that mentioned "orgone energy" had to be destroyed, and that further copies of Reich's books could not be published, including his revised classics like The Mass Psychology of Fascism, unless the words "orgone energy" were deleted.

en.wikipedia.org...

How on Earth can the burning of literature be sanctioned under any law in a free country? Your defending the indefensible unless you consider the burning of books to be a regular government activity. If you wish bring me a another example when the US government ( this was not based on the ruling of one man clearly) chose to burn literature related to a medical question.

If you read it all, you can see that the courts ordered him to stop, and he continued. Whether you agree with him or not, civil disobedience usually carries civil penalties.

Only if you consider free speech some kind of negotiable thing and book burning something that should be done on some specific occasions. How many books were burned in fascist Germany or stalinist Russia?

Whats bizarre about it? Well that no serious scientist belieives in any of it,

'Serious scientist' ( i presume the type of scientist that would defend your ignorance in this case? ) have a long record of being consistenly utterly wrong on most issues as long as long as our historic records extends back in time. The science community rarely defends reality the first time round and it normally takes the death of the ignorant in denial group to usher in the new group that believes what observation all along indicated.

there is no scientific basis for any of it,

There never is unless one knows something about the related subject matter.

and it just sounds like a total pile of BS to me.

So i guess your opinion is the final word then? So much for the scientific method you speak so highly of.

If it is so real, then why hasnt any of it been proven yet?

It has been proven repeatedly by various scientist but there is too many forces who benefit by the current system. Interestingly the top five drug pushing groups in the world ( as noted on the NYSE) make more profit than the rest of the top 100 put together. It's surprising why you would ask 'why' you do not know about it when you choose to ignore it when its mentioned. Now imagine what you would do if you spent your life teaching others 'how things are' , are making vast profits by 'how things are' or derive all your stature and control by propagating accepted medicinal standards?

We should ask why there are still any coal fire plants (instead of nuclear) or gas driven cars ( instead of electric) or hunger ( when the world has been producing enough food to feed everyone since 1970 at least) or poverty ( when all our currencies are now based in fiat systems where money can be produced in whatever volume is required to ease trade between individuals) or so many deadly medicines ( when we know so many of those diseases can be treated by large volumes of artificially and cheaply produced vitamins) or wars ( when we know people hate war and try as best they can to avoid it) or organized religion ( when people splinter off in tens of thousands of tribal like denominations). Why do we not demand answers to all these obvious questions when we can already demonstrate the reality of each proposed solution?

The reason is simply that most people are as ignorant of reality as you are.

Stellar

[edit on 9-11-2006 by StellarX]

Contrails never persisted???? Are you serious? I have seen lots of pics, going back to WW2, of skies full of contrails.

Okay, now tell us this. With very cold temperatures, and thin air, both factors making it easy to saturate air, tell us EXACTLY why contrails can not persist, also tell us EXACTLY when contrails did not persist and when that changed.

Because they never did before.

Yes they did. Look at pictures of World war B-17s in giant formations over germany.

Because there is no historic record of them ever lasting this long or lasting this long in such volume. Contrail formation itself is damn hard to predict and it's just shear nonsense to suggest that it's hard to predict something that readily forms and last for hours on end.

Stellar

Yes they did. Look at pictures of World war B-17s in giant formations over germany.

That KLM 777 that was accused of chemspraying was delivered in March this year. That is a brand new 777-200ER, with no major checks or maintainence. So, that plane cannot have been modified for chemspraying. And two, no unmodified Boeing 777 has holes in them in order to spray chemicals.
If they did:
The 65000 people at Boeing are lying, General Electric are lying, Boeing partners are lying, the FAA is lying, maintainence at all major airports are lying, and if it were so, I'd be lying as I know just about every thing about the 777, and have done a personal walk around.

[edit on 10-11-2006 by PisTonZOR]

I created this thread to find possible remedies for chemtrails, i.e. , vitamins, supplements, certain foods, for instance. This thread was not created to debate the existence of chemtrails. There are other threads devoted to that facet of this phenomenom. If you are here to debate the existence of chemtrails, give up and go feed you're cat. All I want to know is what can I take to get over this persistent cough, dry eyes, general apathy, nose bleeds, ringing in my ear and so on.

Originally posted by greydawn
I created this thread to find possible remedies for chemtrails, i.e. , vitamins, supplements, certain foods, for instance. This thread was not created to debate the existence of chemtrails. There are other threads devoted to that facet of this phenomenom. If you are here to debate the existence of chemtrails, give up and go feed you're cat. All I want to know is what can I take to get over this persistent cough, dry eyes, general apathy, nose bleeds, ringing in my ear and so on.

Well what if there are no remedies for Chemtrails because they don't exist?

I detect a paid debunker, no?

Originally posted by greydawn
I detect a paid debunker, no?

Yeah of course. Its $20 an hour! .

THat's off topic so if you want to ask me anything add me to msn or PM me.

[edit on 10-11-2006 by PisTonZOR]

Originally posted by greydawn
I created this thread to find possible remedies for chemtrails, i.e. , vitamins, supplements, certain foods, for instance. This thread was not created to debate the existence of chemtrails. There are other threads devoted to that facet of this phenomenom. If you are here to debate the existence of chemtrails, give up and go feed you're cat. All I want to know is what can I take to get over this persistent cough, dry eyes, general apathy, nose bleeds, ringing in my ear and so on.

The problem is that no-one knows what if anything is in these alleged chemtrails, nor if your symptoms are in any way connected with them.

If you believe chemtrails exist and are being sprayed above your town, it may simply be that you are misinterpreting a normal allergy or vitamin deficiency, for example, or even that your symptoms are primarily psychosomatic.

Whether or not it's possible to spray something at high altitude and affect people immediately below is, or course, another issue

The problem is that greydawn is experiencing symptoms that are very unique - and are shared by individuals around the world on heavy spray days. This circumstantial evidence should lead one to simply ask the question.

Greydawn has made a connection and is asking how to prevent what basically amounts to unhealthy symptoms related to a perceived chemical ingestion. Period.

I've actually been reading up on the symptoms reported by greydawn, and those reported by others and wonder if they are the result of ingesting an airborne particulate, or if they also involve exposure to Extremely Low Frequency (or VLF) radiation. I also wonder if the two are connected.

This means the HAARP program, as well as cell towers and TETRA towers (TErrestrial Trunked RAdio) that have sprung up in every available space in and around our cities out of nowhere. TETRA masts are new masts used by police, fire departments, ambulance and military. It's said about the frequency of these new masts,

Its operation results in power modulation of some of the RF signal at a pulse frequency of 17.6 Hz. As a consequence of the recommendation by IEGMP, concerns have been raised about the health implications of the use of this system.

SOURCE

They're safe though, just like the cell phone towers. Except for the fact that you can cook an egg all the way through with two cell phones in an hour.

Cell phone companies, and others who construct these technologies obviously have our health and safety as their prime concern, right? Not simply their own agendas.

Electromagnetic fields affect the body in one particular way that we know about, and that is negatively with regard to nitric oxide. If you want to see greydawn's symptoms shared by those exposed to these waves take a look here. Also, here's an explanation of how these waves negatively affect nitric oxide in the body and the disturbing symptoms that can occur. Here is another site explaining the damage radio wave sickness can cause.

The problem is where to source these illnesses. I say either way it's airborne (i.e., aircraft emissions or EMF or ELF radiation). If it's a radiation sickness guess what - you're (we're) screwed, because you don't take vitamin c to cure radiation sickness. These waves affect our immune system, brainwave activity (i.e. acuity, emotional states), and every other part of our systems that you can name.

I wonder how many people have to suffer, or fall ill and die before an investigation into these concerns is made...




[edit on 10-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]

"They're safe though, just like the cell phone towers. Except for the fact that you can cook an egg all the way through with two cell phones in an hour."

Do you actually understand the links you put up? If you read the article, it says it never happened and that it was satire, and FALSE.

This part at the top should be a good clue

"Description: Email flier
Circulating since: May 2006
Status: False"

We are still waiting for a link to that lab report showing sampled jet engine exhaust and how it conclusively shows chemtrails. Oh you still didnt tell us if all of those airlines are involved in it, or what pics you linked to you believe are chemtrails.

I didn't read that article all the way through. I just posted a link. I'd read it elsewhere and that other source hadn't posted it as a gag. Oh well, learn something new every day.

It wasn't implausible to me if someone was able to do that. I admit that I don't understand, fully, the field of electromagnetism, or radio waves, but I can read and understand test results.

We rely on our scientific institutions to perform these tests, so we don't have to. Unfortunately, sometimes these scientists are on the payroll of the companies whose products they are testing for potential harmful effects, and we as aware citizens must be cautious of this.

I do understand the obvious concern over cell phone and TETRA masts and that rigorous and thorough testing with regard to short and long term health effects has not been done on these masts. It's a risk that's being taken with our health. And many of these masts are located next to schools. Is that a risk you want to take with our kids?

I say that's irresponsible at the very least. If the right people were responsible for placing these masts, I don't think they would plant this fairly new technology next to our homes and schools. It's putting us at jeapardy. Just like weapons chemical disposal, etc. Governments and corporations put their agendas first, and put human health, and regulatory standards at the bottom, brushing away concerns about health hazards as unfounded, and concealing tests that damage the credibility of those running these programs. This is one reason why aircraft could very well be spraying toxic streams above our heads, the citizens below be damned.

One study (indicated halfway down this page) states the following regarding cell tower emissions,

This study found significant ill-health effects in those living in the vicinity of two GSM mobile phone base stations. They observed that: "The strongest five associations found are depressive tendency, fatigue, sleeping disorder, difficulty in concentration and cardiovascular problems.

Another study listed on that same site said,

This study, based on medical records of people living within 350 metres of along-established phone mast, showed a four fold increased incidence of cancer generally compared with the general population of Israel, and a tenfold increase specifically among women, compared with the surrounding locality further from the mast.

I think we're seeing some of the long term results here,

The result of the study shows that the proportion of newly developing cancer cases was significantly higher among those patients who had lived during the past ten years at a distance of up to 400 metres from the cellular transmitter site, which bas been in operation since 1993, compared to those patients living further away, and that the patients fell ill on average 8 years earlier. In the years 1999-2004, i.e.
after five years' operation of the transmitting installation, the relative risk of getting cancer had trebled for the residents of the area in the proximity of the installation compared to the inhabitants of Naila outside the area.

Why aren't these tests being performed in the U.S.? I suggest because they would spell doom for the military and government institutions that are now using these TETRA masts, as well as the lucrative cell phone industry.

SOURCE

Another site does several similarly intensive studies and comes to the conclusion that,

To over 40 studies have shown adverse biological or human health effects specifically from cell phone radiation. These research results to date clearly show that cell phones and cell phone radiation are a strong risk factor for all of the adverse health effects identified for EMR because they share the same biological mechanisms. The greatest risk is to cell phone users because of the high exposure to their heads and the great sensitivity of brain tissue and brain processes. DNA damage accelerates cell death in the brain, advancing neurodegenerative diseases and brain cancer. Brain tumour is already an identified risk factor. Cell phones are carried on people's belts and in breast pockets. Hence liver cancer, breast cancer and testicular cancer became probable risk factors.

SOURCE

Halfway down this page you will find a string of complaints in the UK of problems involving individuals that live near phone masts. It starts with a post called, "Sleeping near Mobile Phone Base stations accelerates Cancer."

Here is a page of schools and activists demanding the masts be removed - and they've been successful.

We only need one case of cancer, or a tumor, or someone suffering health problems as a result of living proximate to one of these masts to warrant concern and investigation. This has clearly been shown, but the response is not forthcoming - AND NEEDS TO BE.

I suggest, however, about the testing on cell phone and TETRA masts, that the U.S. gov. and other corporations are good at keeping damaging information from reaching the light of day. Take Diebold for example...

No more chemtrail airplane pictures are forthcoming. I've posted links to enough of those. And we've moved on from the "photo interpretation" debate. People who believe in this phenomena see one thing, and those that don't see something else. It's apparently become a Rorschach Test, so we've moved on to more substantive, factual information (see me previous posts on the subject).

[edit on 10-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]


[edit on 10-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]

I would like to see substance and facts too.

So tell us why contrails can not persist, and tell us what airlines are part of this spraying conspiracy.

It always seems chemtrail believers are big on vague accusations, but short on details. They love photos of distant contrails as proof, but as soon as there is a photo with an identifiable plane and even what airline, they tend to then back off the claims.

Instead of just reading chemtrail sites, why not consult with people who know about meteorology and aviation, to ask them questions. You can end up learning new things.

Originally posted by firepilot

So tell us why contrails can not persist, and tell us what airlines are part of this spraying conspiracy.

Contrails do persist, they can persist for hours. Not jus b-17'2 made contrais in ww2 but high altitude fighters like the p-47 thungerbolt and other bombers like the b-29 superfortis.

The difference to the human perception is how long and what a chemtrail turns into. they last all day. Not hours but as long as you can see them in the dayight. They spread into a completely overcast day. I have witnessed them fall to the ground and it formed a spidereb substance that covered a major car dealership, you could see it because it draped between all 400 automobiles. I have 16 salesman as witnesses (of coure they cant be trusted lol).

I dont jump to conclusions, I never have. Most people that claim they have seen chemtrails are witnessing contrails. I know aircraft, my father was 82nd airborn and did thousands of jumps. He took me to every airfield in the midwest, and every airshow, I have four cousins that are pilots, two of them died in aerobatic accidents.


Look into my eyes and tell me I am lying to you.


[edit on 10-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

In this post you said that :

originally posted by LoneGunMan
One day back when I was selling cars for a living, we (the sales force) were doing are morning walk of the car lot (we did this to make sure the cars were ready for business) we found that the entire lot, end to end was covered in what we thought was spider webs.

Now you claim that you actually saw the "webs" coming down from a contrail. If you saw the trail form the webs, you would know they weren't spiderwebs.

I have witnessed them fall to the ground and it formed a spidereb substance that covered a major car dealership, you could see it because it draped between all 400 automobiles.

Why the extreme change in your story? Such an obviously important event in your life shouldn't be forgotten in only a month.

Did you change your story to give it more impact?

[edit on 11/10/2006 by eaglewingz]

Originally posted by eaglewingz


Why the extreme change in your story? Such an obviously important event in your life shouldn't be forgotten in only a month.

Did you change your story to give it more impact?

Extreme change to my story? That is extreme? I did see them fall to ground, I didnt see them fall from an aircraft, what are you daft? They were floating around all day, we did find the car lot covered when we came out in the morning, and we also saw them floating everywhere all day that day, falling to the ground.

Did I ever say I saw them falling from thousands of feet from an aircraft?

Not addressing you in particular, but some people cannot for the life of them figure anything out nowdays without someone explaning it to them in detail. Must be too much television.

By the way dont look into my eyes anymore, it gives me the creeps, took the avatar down because you were creeping me out, Go back to boys town.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
The difference to the human perception is how long and what a chemtrail turns into... They spread into a completely overcast day. I have witnessed them fall to the ground and it formed a spidereb substance that covered a major car dealership, ...

Yes, it seemed more extreme without the information that you saw them falling all day. There is a big difference between "finding them in the morning" and "seeing them falling." My bad.

I still maintain, though, that unless you witnessed the actual transition of trail into web, you can't say that you have seen chemtrails fall as webs. It could be as simple as a mass fall of spiderwebs during a day conducive to persistent contrails. These mass web falls are quite well known.

And BTW, I can still see eyes in your avy

Originally posted by eaglewingz

And BTW, I can still see eyes in your avy

Dont look at em! hahah you made me laugh at that one.

Thats just the thing though, as you know there is no way to see them from the aircraft to the ground. You dont see rain transition from the clouds to the ground either. I know that when there are dark clouds and it is raining, I can guess the rain-fairy is not making them. I do know when I see contrails become completly different one day and there is another strnge anomoly that same day, I know the spiderweb-fairy didnt do that either.

See what I mean jelly bean? Oh and becareful when you go to boys town!

Originally posted by firepilot
Contrails never persisted???? Are you serious? I have seen lots of pics, going back to WW2, of skies full of contrails.

And you will see the planes within view as the contrails normally last 5-30 seconds when they form at all. Contrails do NOT last many hours.

Okay, now tell us this. With very cold temperatures, and thin air, both factors making it easy to saturate air, tell us EXACTLY why contrails can not persist,

Predicting contrails is actually very hard to do as you would have known had you studied history going back to just after the second world war when planes were finally able to go above 30 odd thousand feet. By 'persistent' they have always meant ( recently changed to reflect their cover up i presume) many minutes, NOT hours.

also tell us EXACTLY when contrails did not persist and when that changed.

You go find the graphs ( Applemen and others) and try discover when what happened as your the one in need of education. There have ALWAYS been 'persistent' contrails but persistent used to mean many minutes...

Stellar