The Netherlands has cancelled all machine voting

FYI,

I saw this a few days ago in the newspaper. Due to the proof offered by anti-machine voting advocates that voting machines can be hacked easily, the government of the Netherlands has cancelled all machine voting. Voting will go back to the old pencil and paper system that was implemented in the past.

Well at least we have a country that believes in the rights of all voters. Here in our nation still with all the data provided to show how easily the machines are to fraud, we are stuck with them.

Talking about agendas.

Hi Marg,
just wondering if you have seen the part about the voting machine and its little yellow button.... the button is on the back of the machine, and if you vote, and then press this button, you get another vote...... and another and another till you are sick and tired of voting...

Damn only in America could they do this and get away with it or try to three times in a row!!!!

ill dig out the blog thats got it on for you.... its scary but theres even pictures of the damn thing!

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Hi Marg,
just wondering if you have seen the part about the voting machine and its little yellow button.... the button is on the back of the machine, and if you vote, and then press this button, you get another vote...... three times in a row!!!!and another and another till you are sick and tired of voting...

Actually I did heard about the button in the back

Actually I was going to added to this thread but I forgot. Thanks for bringing that out.

And then the pro machines dare to say that it will be to obvious leaning to the back and push it.

Yeah right.

We need to protest the machine and protest them before is to late. Again.

www.bradblog.com...>Concerns


Here you go - man i hope this stink raises the dead in protest!

This is stupid - it must be some thing in the water that stops you Americans from storming the white house and lynching all those in the corrupt and unjust seats of power!


Old 1776 seems like a far and distant memory from a far and distant planet, not the past of a glorious and free nation here on earth.. Hope it gets better real soon

Well, I honestly did'nt know other countries used E-voting,
though I suppose it shoud've been ovious to me.

I'm not surprised the Netherlands has done this, it is, in my
opinion, the freest nation on the planet, and tends to actually
care about its citizens.

www.engadget.com...

Apparently they've been hacked pretty badly. They even turned one of them into a chess game!

With as much fuss as we raise over the myriad of Diebold security and stability failures, it looks like we've got it pretty good in the States when compared to the e-voting methods of the Dutch. Their ES3B voting system is based on circa-1980's computing hardware, which seems to be rather lacking in the areas of physical and software security. A few hackers got a hold of a unit and essentially had their way with the machine. Their first order of business was installing a chess program, since Jan Groenendaal of the Nedap/Groenendaal company -- which manufactures the machines -- had responded to the hackers' claims of it being possible with a smarmy "I'd like to see that demonstrated." After they got bored playing chess against a weak sauce 68000 processor with 16KB of RAM, they installed their own "PowerFraud" app to demonstrate methods for generating phony election results, and then went on to do some RF reading that helped them discover ways to wirelessly detect which votes were being registered on the machines by spotting "spurious emissions" from the computer display whenever it gets refreshed. The hackers responsible were kind enough to recommend fixes for most of their hacks, but we would think a bit of a technology refresh could help these Nedap/Groenendaal guys immensely. Or maybe Diebold can give them a ring once they're done botching our elections and they can all work together to further their respective nefarious and democracy-ending aims.

I hope ours aren't that bad!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
replaced 'quote' with 'ex'

[edit on 5/11/06 by masqua]

Originally posted by iori_komeiand tends to actually
care about its citizens.

Don't let the Dutch ATS members hear you say that...

Hah hah hah, a CHESS program!

It's better to turn back to the old voting system, yet I don't have faith in our government anyway.

God bless The Netherlands.



Have always liked the way they think, now i have another reason.

That's what the US needs... a massive demonstration of fraud (from someone OTHER than the Republicans). Maybe they could install Tetris on all the Diebold machines via the memory cards?

I've just watched HBO's Hacking Democracy on Google Video. It's a must see.

Very wise decision i have to say. I saw a documentary showing how easy it was to hack them. I hope they manage to solve the problem soon, although I don't think manage it in time as we have elections on the 22nd of November.

So back to the old pencil....the negative thing is that we have to wait longer for the results, but they still think it will be on the same evening, were not that big

I am pritty happy with my current government by the way. The elections will be very exiting because left en and center right are very close at the moment. I hope left won't be the biggest as I don't want to have left goverment, w'll see!

I wonder how many people are going to vote for Partij v/d Dieren. Literally translated: Party for the Animals.

I think I would've voted CDA or D66. I was thinking to do that last election (when I was still living there), but for my stupidity I didn't have my voting card.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I wonder how many people are going to vote for Partij v/d Dieren. Literally translated: Party for the Animals.

I think I would've voted CDA or D66. I was thinking to do that last election (when I was still living there), but for my stupidity I didn't have my voting card.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by TheBandit795]

Yes the Partij v/d Dieren is constantly in the news over the last months. Also last week when we had floods in the Northern part after a storm there were over 150 horses standing in the water for a few days and couldn't move, 18 of them died, the Partij v/d Dieren were constantly in the news saying they were sueing the owner of the horses. Also when our biggest supermarket AH were anouncing that they wanted to sell Halal meet next to the regular meet two weeks ago they took their chance. So they manage to be in the news all the time so I am not surprised that they will win at least one seat in the parliament.

I normally vote VVD, but I am doubting this year because VVD will never be the biggest party and CDA have a very big change to win again. And when they win, they would problably work with VVD again like they do now.

D66 by the way will probably vanish this election, they predicted no votes for them.



[edit on 6/11/2006 by rai76]

..and the thread dies when it degenerates into dutch politics..

Originally posted by runetang
..and the thread dies when it degenerates into dutch politics..

Politics is universal, though not completely.


Bandit, rai, either of you wanna help out us
non-Dutch people in understanding what the bloddy-hell
you're talking about?

The Dutch government works with a party system, as in England I believe. The last 4 years we had a paramount center right government (with the two parties CDA and VVD, which are democratic and liberal) which had one of the strongest policies in Europe on for example immigrants. For many years we had a more left goverment which was quite soft and as many think they #ed up on immigrants an some other things.

Almost 4 years ago we had a guy called Pim Fortuyn who was completely right wing and said what people thought in their minds. He had the currage to stand up. He was extremely populair and would have probably become the next Prime Minister if he didn't got killed We never had this kind of thing in The Netherlands.

So now we had for 4 years a center right goverment and left parties are rising again, although CDA is still the biggest in the polls. It will be very interesting if CDA wins again, who they choose to work with. Will they choose VVD again, which I hope or do they choose a left party PVDA which is slightly smaller in the polls.

The funny thing is that Dutch people arn't people that protest easely on the streets, they don't moan alot, or they do it at home, they don't really say alot. What we witnessed 4 years ago when Pim Fortuyn was murdered shocked us all and we stood up and still voted for his party, although they didn't become the biggest. The interesting thing is I think is that for some reason alot of people are back to sleep again and don't stand up anymore and take everything like they always do. After Pim Fortuyn died alot of smaller right parties arised, but for some reason they couldn't manage to be very realible.

Still alot of good came out of murder of Pim Fortuyn because the CDA and VVD followed up alot of the things Pim Fortyun was saying, like put a hold on the expanding of EU (because it's a mess), or he didn't want Turkey to join the EU or we have to manny immigrants so we had one of the hardest goverment in times, which we needed in my opinion. We also voted no the ground constitution of the EU and they goverment listened to us, which is a very good thing. We made a big statement and of course it wasn't only because of this constitution of the EU. We were fed up of how things were going in the EU, we were never asked anything before. We got the Euro and only bad things came out of it. They also did some things not well, but still good enough for me to win the next elections again.

Hope it explains a bit.

[edit on 6/11/2006 by rai76]

Originally posted by marg6043

Hi Marg,This is completely off topic, Congratulations with your new Nephew

Back on topic. Why are we so arrogant, I am worried about tomorrows result, will it be a charade as the past elections?
WIS

I don't think that the 2004 elections will be repeated, this time it will be a lot of people watching and also it will be more straight forward complains of malfunctioning machines.

One place to look for this will be in Ohio again.

This new way of voting truly makes me sick to my stomach.