Anti-masonic myspace page.

Mike,
You continue to miss the point. There is nothing in free masonry that tells the brothers that the good they do will get them into heaven. Salvation is a matter of ones faith, not a facate of free masonry.

There is nothing in free masonry that implies it is or should be a substitue for a religious instatution. We are Not a religious orginization. We are a Fraternal group which happens to have a requirment of the belief in a supreme being.

All of your arguments appear to boil down to an objection that we don't require and enforce a belief that Christ is the one true saviour. And that we will not (and never will) REQUIRE all masons believe exactly what you do and worship exactly the way you do.

One final thing that I would like for you to consider if you would please. If as I suspect you live in the U.S.A., the freedom to practice your religion as you do comes from the Free Masons involved in writting both the Decleration of Independance and our Constitution. Prior to our revolution from England religion was dictated by the "state". And before you bring up the Mayfolwer group fleeing relious persocution, think what it would have been like to be a Baptist, or Roman Cathlic in their colony, they were NEVER known for religious tollerance themselves.

If you doubt this, please read the Federlist Papers, and compair the autors with a list of Masonic Founding Fathers. While not all weere Free Masons, a lot were. By the way many of the provisions in our constitution and the Bill of Rights are streight out of misonic teachings and philosophy.

Originally posted by mike316
Check it out. I happen to believe alot of what he says.

Like what, and why?

Who I'd like to meet:
Hot chicks with morals, My lord and saviour Jesus Christ,John Conner from resistance manifesto

Whats the point of a hot chick with morals? Its a contradiction to even want to met one.

Its also rather telling that he lists 'JFK" as a hero of his, but then says that only certain bloodlines can become presidents, which would mean that JFK was part of the conspriacy. And JFK was in a secret society also.

The P2 Lodge in Italy has had some shaddy dealings and alot of cover ups. I'am for the removing of mason in the White House.

It'd be illegal to prevent a private individual from taking public office because they belong to a club that you don't like. Its also silly to say that because of the actions of one group in italy, that everyone in the larger group is a criminal.

Even if a former 33 degree mason come clean. What the hell would he know?

If none of hte masons, including the 33s, know what the masons are doing, then.....how can the masons be doing anything??

At the very least, its not the masons then that are the problem, but some other group, that just uses them as a source of income, so there can't be any problem with masonic rituals, rights, tenents, actions, etc.

Albert Pike addressing the 23 Supreme Councils of the world on July 14, 1889:-

Its hard to beleive that anyone can think that when pike said 'lucifer', that this otherwise upright guy was really saying 'satan, the evil ruler of hell from the bible, he's the real god, the god in the bible doesn't exist, and only satan does'.
When pike is saying luciferian, he is talking about something different from what christians mean, he is not talking about a malevolent, evil, 'satanic' deity.

Originally posted by mike316
Freemasonry teaches all, even the Christian, to honor all faiths and religions. Most all other religions,
though, deny that Jesus is the Son of God. Again freemasonry is a religion. Honor faith is a religous belief.

Freemasonry teaches that anyone coming into the Lodge is coming in from outer darkness into light.
A Christian, though, should never go along with the notion that he is walking in darkness and needs the
Lodge to walk in light. Amen!

"Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ." (Matt. 23:10)
Such as a master mason.

they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"

As for thinking that good deeds such as charity getting you into heaven the bible tells us this."Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" (Romans 3:20)

That good deeds will not get into the holy land. If you think so good luck.

So MASTER electricians are the devil? or Chess Masters? or Masters at poker? JESUS CHRIST give me a break. the way master is described in the bible in the refrence you gave is to show that there should be noone higher then god. a Master mason is NEVER refered to as being higher then god at all. In fact the entire degree is to bring you back to reality and show your own mortality so that you may one day come face to face with your own god and hear those words from he who judges supreme...Well done good and faithfull servant, enter thou into the joy of the lord.


NOW as has been shown countly times over masonry is NOT a religion, if you yourself believe it is then your a moron who cant read. because it's been posted here COUNTLESS TIMES! we except all religions as long as you believe in a supreme being. now with that requirement i assume that if you believe in just the devil you could petition a lodge however there's no lodge on this earth that would knowingly admit a devil whorshiper. he would be blackballed right away.

you cannot make comparisions from the bible to masonry because masonry as a whole is not a christian orginization so your compairing apples to oranges, and it only makes you sounds dumber and dumber. Ya see I as a mason may be christ i may not be, but that's my buisness and noone elses. does that make me evil?

WE use secrets for this one purpose and this one purpose only...cause it's none of yo damn buisness!!!!! the secrets of masonry are kept only to masons because well YOUR NOT ONE. does this make us evil? of course not, youd be as idiotic as the creator of that myspace page. secrecy doesnt make you evil, NOR does accepting people for who they are inside. oh my god that sounds alot like what the bible preeches.


YA SEE MIKE, in claiming that your a christian you have only shown yourself to be a liar and a fake, christian faith shows us to accept everyone no matter what their alements are. you sir however are anything BUT a christian and you do nothing but spit on the faith i have grown to charish and love. WE are good accepting people, not as masons but as men, some christians some not. but accepting no matter what. and YOU SIR are NEITHER!

You have to remember that most freemasons are good folks that seek fellowship,making themselves better people, connecting with God, and service to others.

However, I do believe it is a compartmentalized organization though. I believe there is an inner court that exists that has much influence and power and do not do things in the best interest of mankind.

Kinda like with the catholic church...Most are good folks and are sincere but there is a small group in power at the Vatican thats rather dark.

Well, the biggest problem that I see with anti-Masonic claims other than that they are unsubstantiated is that they say, "Well, there are masons involved with the Tri Lateral Commission,or with the U.N. or with this group and that group." Sure there are. There are also Christians,Jews,Muslims,Buddhist,Hindus, et cetera, that are involved with these very sinister group. Am I supposed to deduct that all of these religions are also involved in some plot to take over the world? The arguments that anti-Masons put forth as "evidence" that the Masons are somehow conspiratorial can be applied to any religious group or organization. I have pointed this out,time and time again, and I will continue to point it out.

Originally posted by magnito_student
However, I do believe it is a compartmentalized organization though. I believe there is an inner court that exists that has much influence and power and do not do things in the best interest of mankind.

Except there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that this is the case. Many people have made this broad allegation but have not even been prepared to explain why they think this. A simple outline of the thought processes and logical thinking behind how this conclusion was reached would go a long way to enabling a decent discussion about it.

Perhaps you'd like to be the first?

And before anybody asks me to try and prove a negative, the complete lack of evidence for this so-called hypothesis does NOT mean that the masons are good at keeping secrets

Originally posted by mike316
don't believe everything you're told

That's exactly why I don't believe you.

Mike man, instead of proving to us all your own ignorance, do what I did, ask a Mason (it really is that easy) and they will take you on a tour of the grand lodge and then you decide if you want in, which is what I will be doing on Sunday, and I will most likely join.

If you get in, and decide they are hell bent on dominating the world through charities like Habitat for Humanity and such, then go on ahead and leave.

All in need to look at what freemason really is this

Sour ce

Masonry=a joke. So go ahead and do charity we all know what goes on behind lodge doors.
The Men's Club
Download this paper in PDF format

Suppose that a group of pagans got together and decided that they wanted to form a men’s club and each man independently decided that he wanted to start every meeting with a prayer to his demon god. They could all agree to this, but they would have a rough time selecting a name which all could embrace. Hindus would want to worship Vishnu, and of course, the men of other pagan religions would want to worship their demon god by the name they commonly use. They could not agree to use the name for the demon god of any one pagan religion without favoring one religion over another. Additionally, if they choose to use an obviously pagan name for the object of worship, they will have a hard time getting even immature Christians to join the club and join in worship with them. (And that is exactly what the demons would want.) If they choose a neutral name, such as the Sovereign Grand Creator of the Universe, and open all of their prayers in his name, all of the pagans can be satisfied. But are they now worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the Bible? No, they are still worshipping demons.

Now consider the situation if a Christian were to walk into a Hindu temple and take part in the worship service, assuming that he was worshipping Jesus, by joining in corporate prayer to Vishnu. Would the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob be willing to accept worship in this manner? The answer is found in Paul's first letter to the church at Corinth. Paul wrote:

". . . the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?" 1 Corinthians 10:20-22

Now consider the situation if the Hindus agree to change the name which they use from Vishnu to Sovereign Grand Creator of the Universe. Even if they are able to agree to change the name that they use to identify their demon, elements of pagan worship rituals, such as circumambulation, remain. With a substitute name for the demon, would it then be acceptable for a Christian to participate in the Hindu ceremony of worship? What if the Hindus decide that when a man who calls himself a Christian officiates at the services, they will allow him to close prayers to Vishnu in Jesus' name. Would that make it "Christian?" If over time, the number of men who claimed to be Christians increased and the number of Hindus decreased, until finally there were no more men who professed to be Hindu taking part in the Hindu rituals of worship, would it then be "Christian?"

How is this different from worship in the pagan men’s club? Of course, the men’s club would claim that their club is not a religion. Is the worship of demons through prayer made any less idolatrous by the claim that it is not a religion?

These situations accurately model the worship which takes place in Masonic Lodges today. Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of all religions worship that one God using a variety of different names. In a Masonic Lodge, all join in corporate prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe, (GAOTU). Christopher Haffner wrote Workman Unashamed, The Testimony of a Christian Freemason. Haffner correctly espoused Masonic teaching when he wrote:

"Now imagine me standing in lodge with my head bowed in prayer between Brother Mohammed Bokhary and Brother Arjun Melwani. To neither of them is the Great Architect of the Universe perceived as the Holy Trinity. To Brother Bokhary He has been revealed as Allah; to Brother Melwani He is probably perceived as Vishnu. Since I believe that there is only one God, I am confronted with three possibilities:

They are praying to the devil whilst I am praying to God;

They are praying to nothing, as their gods do not exist;

They are praying to the same God as I, yet their understanding of His nature is partly incomplete (as indeed is mine--1 Cor 13:12)

It is without hesitation that I accept the third possibility."

(Workman Unashamed, p39)

It is truly a shame that Haffner did not read and understand chapter 10 of 1st Corinthians. If he had, he would have understood that pagans worship demons, not God. Islam denies that Jesus Christ is the Unique Son of God. Rather, it declares that Jesus was only a prophet. Islamic doctrine declares that Allah, the god of Islam, does not have a son. Since the God of the Bible has a Son and Allah, the God of Islam, does not have a Son, Allah cannot be the God of the Bible. Furthermore, if Haffner had read and understood the book of 2nd John he would have understood that those who reject Jesus Christ and do not follow in His teachings do not have God. John wrote:

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds (2 John 9-11)

With an understanding of this passage, it is possible to know that those who organized the paganism known as Freemasonry were not Christians. They were not continuing in the teaching of the Scriptures. Would Christians substitute the name GAOTU for God and do away with the name of Jesus so that pagans could join with them in prayer without being offended? No, Christians would have shared Jesus with the pagans so that they too might have salvation through faith in Him.

It is true that there is one God. However, all men, specifically pagans, do not worship that one God. The worshippers of Baal learned the truth on Mt. Carmel. Baal is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Judgment was swift on Mt. Carmel. (See 1 Kings 18:20-40.) The god of Freemasonry, the GAOTU, is also not the God of the Bible. Will God judge Masons who do not repent and continue to worship the GAOTU any differently than he judged the worshippers of Baal?

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

What will Jesus tell the Mason who claims to be a Christian?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

By joining in pagan worship ceremonies, WE sinned against God. When we realized that the GAOTU was not the God of the Bible, we claimed the promise found in John's first letter:

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

If you are a Christian who has become ensnared in Freemasonry, we urge you to confess your involvement in Freemasonry as sin and renounce, as we have.

Jesus wants to forgive you, but his forgiveness is dependant on your confession and repentance.

Ex-Masons for Jesus

Edit: Shortened link.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by intrepid]

Oh yeah and J.F.K. was part of the Illuminati but he had a revival in his life. He was against the Vietnam war for one, He was against the Federal Reserve and want to get rid of it. He also want to get rid of the C.I.A. after the Bay of Pigs disaster. JFK and his brother, RFK, attacked organized crime in an effort to expose the Mafia to the public and curtail its power. JFK and Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana shared the same mistress, Judith Campbell Exner. Giancana helped JFK win the election in Illinois and on the east coast.
This is why he was killed.

Originally posted by mike316
Oh yeah and J.F.K. was part of the Illuminati but he had a revival in his life. He was against the Vietnam war for one, He was against the Federal Reserve and want to get rid of it. He also want to get rid of the C.I.A. after the Bay of Pigs disaster. JFK and his brother, RFK, attacked organized crime in an effort to expose the Mafia to the public and curtail its power. JFK and Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana shared the same mistress, Judith Campbell Exner. Giancana helped JFK win the election in Illinois and on the east coast.
This is why he was killed.

Ah, Mike316,

I'm so glad you arrived. It's been a while since an expert such as yourself has been on this site. I was beginning to think that they'd all been rounded up in that big FBI sting.

Please enlighten us as to the truth. We've been seeking long and hard. Help us poor ignorant fools... We obviously know nothing and I can tell by your posts that you must know all.

Appak,isn't that so obvious??

But it's not a religion right

So also there is an objective and unique faith in the Masonic system. The reception, acceptance and belief of that faith makes men Masons. The confession thereof marks them as Masons. The rule of that faith is the universe. The moral and religious truths which Masons profess to discern in, and derive from the book of nature, constitute the objective faith of Masonry. A priest is a religious official, whose duty is to perform specific religious acts. Masonry has its priests of various degrees. "The master of the lodge is its priest." If a chaplain is appointed he simply represents the master in the devotions of the lodge. These officials offer the prayers to the Masonic god, the Great Architect of the Universe, and also have part in the public religious exercises in which the lodge may engage. The chaplain, an appointive office, is generally a minister of the gospel who has been hoodwinked into the lodge, but the services he conducts in that capacity, are Masonic and not Christian. He wears the insignia of his office, addresses the prayers to the Masonic deity, and invokes special favors upon the lodge. The religion expressed or the service conducted is emphatically Masonic, and he who conducts it, is for the time being a Masonic priest.

The religion administered by these religious officials is Masonry.

It can not be anything else. The prayers are those provided by Masonic authorities; they are couched in unmistakable Masonic language and they express decidedly Masonic sentiment. The hymns are Masonic, and the scripture passages read are expurgated of all Christian sentiment, so as to make them Masonic. Such passages are taken with slight but necessary modification, says Mackey. The modification is necessary in order to make them agree in sentiment with the Masonic religion.

Religious Ceremonies Are Proofs of Religion. They are the outward forms in which the inner life or the religious sentiment finds expression. As such they signify and mean something. In some cases impressive and elaborate ceremonies are employed to inspire the devotee with awe, to impress him with the solemnity of the transaction, and to intensify his sense of obligation and duty to deity, and to his fellowmen. Without some form of ceremony, religion would be useless. Rites and ceremonies from the very nature of the religious notions are essential to its power and influence over man. A purely abstract religion can not exist. To be effectual religion must be presented in a concrete form, in befitting and expressive ceremony.

It must be evident to the most indifferent observer that Freemasonry has its own and peculiar religious rites, services and ceremonies. These are the "forms of words" and "the forms of needs" in the institution. They are designed and used on the one hand, to impress profoundly the candidate for initiation, and on the other to strengthen the Mason in his peculiar faith. These ceremonies are the outward signs of a distinct inward religious life, which is Masonry.


They are designed to beget within the Mason the belief that Freemasonry deals with the most sacred things with befitting solemnity; that the lodge is a most holy place, and "that its floor is holy ground." The candidate is made to feel that the "all seeing eye" is looking down upon him, and that he is about to be ushered into the very presence of deity.



The whole procedure in the lodge whether opening, working, "refreshment" or "closing" is a religious ceremony, intensely and exclusively religious, more so than many services conducted in a Christian church. It is worship, ceremony, service, religion throughout, and therefore the conclusion is irresistible that Freemasonry is a religion.

The Masonic initiation is purely a religious ceremony. It is as much so as is a confirmation or baptism in the churches, or the solemnization of marriage, or the ordination of a minister of the gospel. It is a ceremony in which a solemn agreement is made in which the Masonic deity is recognized as a party to the covenant, and whose help is implored.

In this act certain duties are set forth and recognized, obligations are assumed, solemn promises are made, and the god of Masonry is called upon to witness and confirm the same.

Masons don't practice religion...

Freemasonry=A JOKE

Originally posted by mike316
Masons don't practice religion...

Freemasonry=A JOKE

So, is it safe to say that you mind is made up and your only purpose here is to troll the board?

Edit: Logged out, colour me shocked.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by intrepid]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Appak,isn't that so obvious??

Absolutely! I'll give him credit, though. He's also dedicated to the spreading of nature's own fertilizer and has a lot of time on his hands.

Too bad he doesn't have time to use the ATS search function and see that ALL this has been covered, ad nauseum again and again.....and that experts such as him (or her) self have come and gone, the majority with their proverbial tails tucked

[yawn]

Originally posted by mike316
Masons don't practice religion...

Freemasonry=A JOKE

Personally, I practice religion AT CHURCH.

In the Lodge I practice my FRATERNITY

Joke's on YOU!

By the way, expert mike, have you EVER attended a Masonic Lodge meeting and witnessed a Masonic Initiation?

There is only one answer, excess verbiage is not necessary.

[ ] Yes

[ ] No



(edit for typo)




[edit on 3-11-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by mike316
Masons don't practice religion...

Freemasonry=A JOKE

So, is it safe to say that you mind is made up and your only purpose here is to troll the board?

Aw shucks intrepid. I was going to try to weave the fact that he's a blatant troll into my post...but you just jumped in and said it out-right! Can I be a moderator?

Maybe Maybe not I don't think that's any of your business. As far as the joke being on me

All the stuff I written about the religous aspects in masonry proves that masonry is a religion. Lets stay on topic here. Masonry=religion.

And why join the lodge? A feeling of belonging, meet new people, or maybe networking? Nope.

Above all, Masonic principles and teaching introduced the spirit of revolt against both ecclesiastical and civil authority. The Masonic lodges became the meeting-places in which every type of impiety, immorality, and revolt found a safe refuge, and where all the anti-religious and anti-social elements met on common ground.