Self Control

You asked for opinions! Just because you get one you dont like you go all huffy. Welcome to life mate.

If you dont like it ignore me or dont read it.

Shihulud, i said that your opinion is fine, but just because you post your opinion doesn't mean you have to insult other peoples beliefs.

Have I insulted your opinion or beliefs once on this post?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Shihulud, i said that your opinion is fine, but just because you post your opinion doesn't mean you have to insult other peoples beliefs.

Have I insulted your opinion or beliefs once on this post?

While having a look through my posts I find nothing insulting, sarcastic yes. All I have written is true - you are following someone elses ideals and way of life and masturbation is NOT dangerous. If this offends you then I apologise for the manner in which I wrote it but not for the truths contained therein.


G

While having a look through my posts I find nothing insulting, sarcastic yes. All I have written is true - you are following someone elses ideals and way of life and masturbation is NOT dangerous. If this offends you then I apologise for the manner in which I wrote it but not for the truths contained therein.

apologie accepted, are you not also following someone elses beliefs and ideals when you say masturbation is ok? i think you are the product of your environment and the times you live in.

i can almost say certainly if you lived in the fifties when masturbation was frowned upon your beliefs would be a lot different.

But in a day and age where almost anything is acceptable and truth is relative this was bound to happen.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
i can almost say certainly if you lived in the fifties when masturbation was frowned upon your beliefs would be a lot different.

But in a day and age where almost anything is acceptable and truth is relative this was bound to happen.

ok...

i'm prety sure pedophilia, zoophilia, and some of the really out there fetishes are still frowned upon

hell, so is homosexuality, most people have a problem with it.

but, honestly, the root of the objection to masturbation is ignorance of reproduction.
people used to believe that sperm were tiny babies waiting to be planted inside of a woman (hence the euphimism "seed"). it was believed that masturbation was MASS MURDER

the ignorance disappeared, but the social stigma stuck for far too long

Again as I have stated previously in this thread, abstinence from masterbation is advanced spirituality. If you start to live this way successfully, certain things begin to happen to you on your Spiritual quest that you thought were impossible.

Are we following somebody else's ideals by abstinence? Yes of course we are, but we are following the ideals of experienced spiritual elders who took this to an extreme and spoke of incredible activations. It is simply trying to live this way that matters. If it works for you cool, if not then no big deal, but I gaurantee you that if you put your heart into this, Christ will commend you in the greatest ways you thought possible.

Christianity isn't the only form of spirituality that spoke of abstinence. This is/was/will be a worldwide sub-genre.

Whether we like it or not we all follow some-one else's ideals. Even if you decide not to follow anyone's ideals, some-body already tried that route before you, and so your still stuck treading a previous path. Life influences itself.

In addtition to prayer, another way to strengthen virtue and overcome vice is by fasting. Prayer and fasting are a potent way to develop all virtues and draw closer to God. These are two practices that are almost universal among the Christian saints.

Yes, to eat moderately and even fast every once in awhile, will help one to not give into lust/desire.

But even these things can become the perverse attachments of the ego(i.e. masochism).


Also, we should not masturbate because we fully understand its harmful effects, and also because we understand the Internal benefits to ourselves and others which result from Transmutation and Chastity.

But if we try to stop out of compulsions such as fear, attachment, etc.; the results will be disastrous.

Therefore, I'd suggest that everyone study the Gnostic teachings of Samael Aun Weor(gnosticteachings.org), Tibetan Buddhism(snowlionpub.com) and the teachings of our Saviour from the Gospels(even though it's not a great translation, the King James version is probably the best we have availible in English).


Just start with the earlier mentioned practice of Pranayama, and perhaps you'll soon discover the benefits of Chastity.

Without Chastity, we will never have the Spiritual Power to carry out our Will and God's Will, and thus all Spiritual endevour will pretty much be a waste of time.




Regards






[edit on 5-11-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by thehumbleone

While having a look through my posts I find nothing insulting, sarcastic yes. All I have written is true - you are following someone elses ideals and way of life and masturbation is NOT dangerous. If this offends you then I apologise for the manner in which I wrote it but not for the truths contained therein.

apologie accepted, are you not also following someone elses beliefs and ideals when you say masturbation is ok? i think you are the product of your environment and the times you live in.

I dont really follow anyone elses beliefs/ideals, probably an amalgamation of beliefs/ideals that I find to be sufficient. The thing being is that I have decided which of these I want to follow and not following a set of rules given by whoever but Yes I am a product of my surroundings as are we all in some respect.
What do you think is dangerous about masturbation?

i can almost say certainly if you lived in the fifties when masturbation was frowned upon your beliefs would be a lot different. But in a day and age where almost anything is acceptable and truth is relative this was bound to happen.

That is an unknown concept as I dont live in the fifties nor did I, and I really dont think that people stopped masturbating just because it was frowned upon, just never told anyone they did it more likely.

Originally posted by dominicus
Again as I have stated previously in this thread, abstinence from masterbation is advanced spirituality. If you start to live this way successfully, certain things begin to happen to you on your Spiritual quest that you thought were impossible.

Be that as it may, you still do not have to be abstinent to lead a spiritual life or find your spiritual quest. There are no hard and fast rules on spirituallity.

Are we following somebody else's ideals by abstinence? Yes of course we are, but we are following the ideals of experienced spiritual elders who took this to an extreme and spoke of incredible activations. It is simply trying to live this way that matters. If it works for you cool, if not then no big deal, but I gaurantee you that if you put your heart into this, Christ will commend you in the greatest ways you thought possible.

On the subject of spirtuallity there is no need for a christ or religion as a whole as you can be spiritual without being religious.

Whether we like it or not we all follow some-one else's ideals. Even if you decide not to follow anyone's ideals, some-body already tried that route before you, and so your still stuck treading a previous path. Life influences itself.

But I follow my rules not someone elses, I decide what path I want to take, I decide what I want from life, I decide how I run my life. I dont need someone elses set of rules to live by nor will I ever.


G

"But I follow my rules not someone elses, I decide what path I want to take, I decide what I want from life, I decide how I run my life. I dont need someone elses set of rules to live by nor will I ever."

Shiluhud,
That's all fine and dandy, as you and everyone else abides by the free-will factor. Even though you have decided to make all decisions and you question the reality of there being a God, you still can't account for the randomness in life that will happen to you. You only have control over how you will act/react to what takes place around you and that's it. That's a very small tiny level of control if you ask me.

If I wanted to be a multi-billionaire realtor then I would purchase a Donald Trump or Richard Branson book on business and follow all the tips and tricks to the best of my ability. Which ever book proved it self to help me get to my goal, I would definately follow.

Same goes for God. We have the Bible and Christ came down and died for all of our sins whether you like it or not, including all of yours Shiluhud. IF we chose to follow the ways of life in the Bible, we are soon gracefully given spirtual realities/gifts that are worth more than all the money in the world and God proves to us in a personal way that he exists.

..........
There is nothing wrong in masterbating if your an athiest, unspiritual, or just don't care. It is even said that it is healthy for you in a kind of clean your pipes sort of way. But for those of us thriving to be holy and know of the deeper things of God, it is an utmost importance to keep vigil and conquer this issue. Again it's part of the process of mastering one's self (thoughts, emotions, physical vices, etc) which helps to get to a state of no-attachment as well as other things I can't speak of on here.

Originally posted by dominicus
"But I follow my rules not someone elses, I decide what path I want to take, I decide what I want from life, I decide how I run my life. I dont need someone elses set of rules to live by nor will I ever."

Shiluhud,
That's all fine and dandy, as you and everyone else abides by the free-will factor. Even though you have decided to make all decisions and you question the reality of there being a God, you still can't account for the randomness in life that will happen to you. You only have control over how you will act/react to what takes place around you and that's it. That's a very small tiny level of control if you ask me.

As we all do - just that my way of life has less restrictions on it. I care more on what happens to me while alive not what happens when I die.

We have the Bible and Christ came down and died for all of our sins whether you like it or not, including all of yours Shiluhud. IF we chose to follow the ways of life in the Bible, we are soon gracefully given spirtual realities/gifts that are worth more than all the money in the world and God proves to us in a personal way that he exists.

Thats a matter of opinion, dependant on your belief system - Jews wouldnt agree would they????? neither would over 2 thirds of the worlds population

There is nothing wrong in masterbating if your an athiest, unspiritual, or just don't care. It is even said that it is healthy for you in a kind of clean your pipes sort of way. But for those of us thriving to be holy and know of the deeper things of God, it is an utmost importance to keep vigil and conquer this issue. Again it's part of the process of mastering one's self (thoughts, emotions, physical vices, etc) which helps to get to a state of no-attachment as well as other things I can't speak of on here.

You dont have to be 'holy' or wanting knowledge of god to regard abstinence as a spiritual tool. You also dont need to stop masturbating to be as spiritual as someone who refrains.



G

As we all do - just that my way of life has less restrictions on it. I care more on what happens to me while alive not what happens when I die.

that is a foolish statement. what are you gonna do when it's time to step into eternity? remember, on this earth you only got about 70-80 years to live if your lucky. I thik it is much more wise to worry about eternity than temporary earthly things. before you know it this life will fly by like a dream, then it's on to eternity.

Just think about eternity. you can't even comprehend such a concept although it does exist. it is the same way with god, you can't comprehend him but he does exist.

As humbleone stressed, we are all here in a blink of an eye. I don't know your age, but by the time you reach 25-28, you get hit with the realization that the older you get, the faster time goes by. While you are wrapped up in Living, we are wrapped up in preparing for our physical death and living in eternity. That's where life begins. Where we are now is just a free-willed holding tank of sort. Not only that, but those of us that trully walk with Christ, get a taste of what it will be like in the after life and we live with that reminder daily.

It doesn't matter who agrees with the truth of the Bible. The fact that it is truth, makes it irrelevant to whether people choose to not believe or go another route. Truth is truth.
............................................................................................................
QUOTE: "You dont have to be 'holy' or wanting knowledge of god to regard abstinence as a spiritual tool. You also dont need to stop masturbating to be as spiritual as someone who refrains."
..............................................................................................

How can you be spiritual with-out wanting to live Holy or want to know God???? An athiest spiritual person sounds like frozen fire or dry water. I think you will find that just about every well established substantial spiritual path (past, present, and future) stresses abstinence sooner or later if you are to thread the high waters.

Does abstinence make the seeker more spiritual than a masterbator? yes and no. Some-one who practices abstinence may have more "other" issues they need to work out than a masterbator. But for the most part, some-one entering abstinence has already taken care of and dealt with the problems, vices, attachments, and "other" issues that a regular masterbator lives with. Abstinence is the next logical step when conquering self and submitting to God.

Originally posted by dominicus
As humbleone stressed, we are all here in a blink of an eye. I don't know your age, but by the time you reach 25-28, you get hit with the realization that the older you get, the faster time goes by. While you are wrapped up in Living, we are wrapped up in preparing for our physical death and living in eternity. That's where life begins. Where we are now is just a free-willed holding tank of sort. Not only that, but those of us that trully walk with Christ, get a taste of what it will be like in the after life and we live with that reminder daily.

A difference of opinion here - I dont belief in the afterlife so I would prefer to enjoy my life without any restrictions of religion.

It doesn't matter who agrees with the truth of the Bible. The fact that it is truth, makes it irrelevant to whether people choose to not believe or go another route. Truth is truth.

The fact that there are thousands of religious faiths makes me dismiss your assumption that the bible is true.

How can you be spiritual with-out wanting to live Holy or want to know God???? An athiest spiritual person sounds like frozen fire or dry water. I think you will find that just about every well established substantial spiritual path (past, present, and future) stresses abstinence sooner or later if you are to thread the high waters.

Not every spiritual person believes in a god - look at budhists.

Does abstinence make the seeker more spiritual than a masterbator? yes and no. Some-one who practices abstinence may have more "other" issues they need to work out than a masterbator. But for the most part, some-one entering abstinence has already taken care of and dealt with the problems, vices, attachments, and "other" issues that a regular masterbator lives with. Abstinence is the next logical step when conquering self and submitting to God.

I disagree, while it might make some more spiritual, you need not abstain to be as spiritual as someone who does.


G

Originally posted by dominicus
..........
There is nothing wrong in masterbating if your an athiest, unspiritual, or just don't care. It is even said that it is healthy for you in a kind of clean your pipes sort of way. But for those of us thriving to be holy and know of the deeper things of God, it is an utmost importance to keep vigil and conquer this issue. Again it's part of the process of mastering one's self (thoughts, emotions, physical vices, etc) which helps to get to a state of no-attachment as well as other things I can't speak of on here.

Unrepentant masturbators destination is the Second Death, whether they are Spiritual or not.





However:

The Transmutation of Sexual Energy (2)


...When we analyse this question, we understand the mistake the abstaining monks made: they set themselves the goal of abstinence, of keeping the sperm, but since they did not know the science, they degenerated terribly, they became charged with awfully malignant Poisonioonoskirian Vibrations. Clearly, when the sperm does not receive a special shock, it degenerates terribly, giving rise to the abominable Kundartiguator Organ. - Samael Aun Weor, from a lecture “Message Addressed to the Gnostic Youth”


Clearly, either the Sacred Sperm is either used for reproduction of the race, or it is not.

We are faced with a basic question of the utmost importance: if the sperm is not used for reproduction of the race and it is not transmuted either, but there is only abstinence, a forced Celibacy and nothing else, that sperm then will involute (in a woman the sexual secretions will involute; what I am saying applies to women, too).

Involution of the sexual secretions produces certain malignant vibrations, known in esotericism as “Poisonioonoskirian Vibrations.”

Already poisoned by evil Poisonioonoskirian Vibrations, any abstaining person undergoes horrific catastrophes in his biology, physiology and psyche. Some individuals build up fat in their bodies, while in others it turns into something different and makes them become scraggy, thin as a rake, covered by pimples, with marks on the skin, etc. Now from a psychological point of view, the involuting sperm produces a personal idiosyncrasy: on the one hand, it becomes extreme fanaticism, and on the other hand, very highly expert cynicism.

Let us look at the men of the Middle Ages, the great inquisitors: abstaining, celibate, fat individuals, loaded with fat, real pigs; others thin, gaunt, ugly, horrible, with their skin full of spots. After they burned a victim at the stake, or tortured him, you could see their cynicism, their eyes were glittering with fanaticism.

So, in that kind of person we find on the one hand fanaticism taken to the extreme, and on the other hand disconcerting cynicism. After burning an innocent victim, they would shrug their shoulders and justify themselves in a really cynical way.

Involution of the sperm, involution of the sexual secretions, is really something very plausible and not to be recommended at all. Everything in nature is continuous, and obviously the Sperm needs to follow its path for animal reproduction or be converted into energy by transmutation.

People who do not transmute the Sacred Sperm and allow it to involute with the absurd practice of celibacy or sexual abstinence inevitably become charged with those terribly malignant Poisonioonoskirian Vibrations and, in the long run, put the abominable Kundartiguator Organ, “Satan’s tail,” into activity (an Atom in the coccyx directs the creative force downwards, which internally becomes a kind of satanic tail or appendix).








So misfortune is always the result of such absurd abstinence. The Consciousness of those people is asleep. If it were awake, they would be able to check for themselves, through direct experience, the enormous activity of the malignant Poisonioonoskirian Vibrations in their Lunar Bodies (the ghostly bodies people at present have in the higher dimensions of nature) and they would eventually see with unspeakable terror the horrific development of the Kundartiguator Organ in their submerged animal natures.

People who are sincere but mistaken do not want to understand that whoever wants to go up has to go down first.

Many mistaken ascetics live in the Hell Worlds, abstainers who renounced sex but had not first manufactured their Solar Bodies (the divine bodies with which one can consciously access the higher dimensions of nature) in the Ninth Sphere (sex): people who had not achieved their “Second Birth,” that birth of which Jesus spoke to Nicodemus.


The path leading to the Abyss is paved with good intentions. The Avernus is full of sincere but mistaken people...

Regards