Cheney confirms that detainees were subjected to water-boarding. W/Garphic Video!

This is absolutely disgusting.For America to justify this makes us as bad as the terroists.And however you wanna word this,its plain and simple torture!

(PrisonPlanet)-WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.

Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview. www.prisonplanet.com...

The U.S. Army, senior Republican lawmakers, human rights experts and many experts on the laws of war, however, consider water-boarding cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment that's banned by U.S. law and by international treaties that prohibit torture. Some intelligence professionals argue that it often provides false or misleading information because many subjects will tell their interrogators what they think they want to hear to make the water-boarding stop.
www.prisonplanet.com...

CIA spokeswoman Michelle Neff said, "While we do not discuss specific interrogation methods, the techniques we use have been reviewed by the Department of Justice and are in keeping with our laws and treaty obligations. We neither conduct nor condone torture." www.prisonplanet.com...

And for those of you who think it isnt torture,watch this video and rethink that,this is outrageous.
www.current.tv...

*Warning* the above video is rather disturbing.





[edit on 26-10-2006 by Black_Fox]

ok, before tearing me apart, hear me out.

Torture, to me would be pain and suffering. Hooking a battery charger up to your nipples or doing that thing they do in Rambo II where they hook you up to a bed spring and hit you with electricity is torture.

To me this is more mental abuse. Correct me if I am wrong. I watched the video, the way they explained it is you are breathing in moisture, and with the constant pouring of water over the body, it creates the "effect" of drowning. So you are not actually drowning, correct? It is more of a feeling of "get me the hell out of here" like a clostrophobic feeling, more than a pain and suffering feeling. I know there is not much of a difference, or maybe there is. I think I am starting to confuse myself

Does anyone else know what I am trying to explain here or am I way off beat?

You sound like Gonzales with that definition, lets see what you will do when someone does it to you, if you feel pain or not. When it comes to torture do this: put yourself in the same position and think about how YOU would like it and what YOU would feel.

Who is Gonzales?

Good piont though.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Obviously they are not drowning...
I'd really like to know what people suggest we do to get critical information? Maybe we could give them a prime rib dinner and a glass of wine?

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Obviously they are not drowning...
I'd really like to know what people suggest we do to get critical information? Maybe we could give them a prime rib dinner and a glass of wine?

AH, that is were I was going with my post.
They are using a more mental approach to interrogation other than causing pain.
Some will say it is painful, while others will say it is more in their head.
I agree, until I feel this, who knows.

Another good point, what can you use to get information?

Originally posted by lardo5150
Another good point, what can you use to get information?

Gee, I dont know, maybe the multi-trillion dollar network of satalites, spys, UAVs,wiretaps, video cameras, listening devices and every other thing we have spent our hard earned money on over the past few decades in the name of 'national security'.

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by lardo5150
Another good point, what can you use to get information?

Gee, I dont know, maybe the multi-trillion dollar network of satalites, spys, UAVs,wiretaps, video cameras, listening devices and every other thing we have spent our hard earned money on over the past few decades in the name of 'national security'.

Yeah, because that information is so reliable. WMD's anyone?

[edit on 10/27/2006 by closettrekkie]

Originally posted by Black_Fox
This is absolutely disgusting.For America to justify this makes us as bad as the terroists.

Killing nearly three thousand people in a terror attack is just as bad as......dunking the jerks that did it into water????

And however you wanna word this,its plain and simple torture![/quote[
Water boarding doesn't kill people, it scares the heck out of them, its extremely terrifying, it makes them think that they are going to drown.
It doesn't kill them. It doesn't bruise them even. Its extremely unplesant, but its hardly as bad as killing thousands of people.

*Warning* the above video is rather disturbing.

911 was far more disturbing. People actually got killed and injured.

When it comes to torture do this: put yourself in the same position and think about how YOU would like it and what YOU would feel.

I wouldn't be able to stand being put in prison either, but that hardly means we shoudlnt' do it to people.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Killing nearly three thousand people in a terror attack is just as bad as......dunking the jerks that did it into water????

...they "did" what exactly ?????

From Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org...

"The physical effects of poorly executed waterboarding can be extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints applied to the struggling victim. The psychological effects can be longlasting.

Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, has treated "a number of people" who had been subjected to forms of near-asphyxiation, including waterboarding. An interview for The New Yorker states:

[Dr. Keller] argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn't take showers, and panicked when it rained. "The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience," he said."

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I would say that having the sensation that you were dying would be extremely traumatic, not to mention the extreme pain it can cause. Even Wikipedia calls it torture. We know that information gained from torture is unreliable. So why torture? Not only is it against the Geneva Convention, it's inhumane and on a practical note, DOESN'T WORK.

Originally posted by closettrekkie

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by lardo5150
Another good point, what can you use to get information?

Gee, I dont know, maybe the multi-trillion dollar network of satalites, spys, UAVs,wiretaps, video cameras, listening devices and every other thing we have spent our hard earned money on over the past few decades in the name of 'national security'.

Yeah, because that information is so reliable. WMD's anyone?

[edit on 10/27/2006 by closettrekkie]

I will go no furthur off topic than to say this...
If you believe the the WMD story was a product of poor intelligence then your point is valid.
But if you believe (like I do) that the WMD story was manufactured in order to garner the support of the American people leading up to the invasion of a soverign country, then your argument is as silly as putty.

Originally posted by 11Bravo

I will go no furthur off topic than to say this...
If you believe the the WMD story was a product of poor intelligence then your point is valid.
But if you believe (like I do) that the WMD story was manufactured in order to garner the support of the American people leading up to the invasion of a soverign country, then your argument is as silly as putty.

I agree with the latter. Do some research into how Cheney manipulated everyone to say that there was WMD when everyone knew there wasn't. Just google Cheney + darkside.

On topic. I think we should waterboard Cheney into telling the truth about 9/11. What do you think?

[edit on 10/27/2006 by Griff]

If you don't hear from me for a few days, you'll know that I was taken and waterboarded myself for my comments about Cheney. If you're listening Dick....obviously I don't like you.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by 11Bravo

I will go no furthur off topic than to say this...
If you believe the the WMD story was a product of poor intelligence then your point is valid.
But if you believe (like I do) that the WMD story was manufactured in order to garner the support of the American people leading up to the invasion of a soverign country, then your argument is as silly as putty.

I agree with the latter. Do some research into how Cheney manipulated everyone to say that there was WMD when everyone knew there wasn't. Just google Cheney + darkside.

On topic. I think we should waterboard Cheney into telling the truth about 9/11. What do you think?

[edit on 10/27/2006 by Griff]

Agreed 100%
Id like to see Chaeny,Bush,Runnsfeld waterboarded and see what flys out there mouths about 9/11,might even find out that "they" were responsible for the deaths of 3000 people on 9/11.Afterall "they" wont answer all the questions about 9/11 and water boarding "isnt torture",America should water board the trio and get information.Afterall,if 9/11 was done by them,then they would be considered terroists.And therefore be perfect for the waterboarding treatment.

And seeing how waterboarding and torture seems to be the "only way" to get "legit" info,and they 3 of them are under suspicion for 9/11,seems only right.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Black_Fox]

Did they really 'water board' or are they making the terrorists think that they do for some kind of psy-ops purposes? I remember seeing an interview on TV with Oliver North. He was in Iraq with some captured terrorists. He said that all the soldiers had to do was say 'GITMO' and the terrorists would start spilling facts about weapons caches and other terrorists. They didn't want to go so they started blabbing if they thought they could get out of going to GITMO.

This alleged 'water boarding' could be an psy-ops thing .. for reasons we don't understand.

BUT If they really did this 'water boarding' then I'm not happy with that. I admit that I don't fully understand 'water boarding', but from what I see here, I don't think that's right to be using it (if we really are).

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Obviously they are not drowning...
I'd really like to know what people suggest we do to get critical information? Maybe we could give them a prime rib dinner and a glass of wine?

LOL Well put! I agree completely. We are trying to get info they dont want us to have folks. They are not going to lay it out without coersion. As far as this particular method goes, it is far less invasive and traumatic than what they would use on us. Is it uncomfortable? yes probably, is it mentally traumatic? yes probably. But it gets results without crossing the line into physically invasive methods of real torture. And as an added bonus THEY get to walk away with thier heads attached!

[edit on 27-10-2006 by kokoro]

Originally posted by kokoro

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Obviously they are not drowning...
I'd really like to know what people suggest we do to get critical information? Maybe we could give them a prime rib dinner and a glass of wine?

LOL Well put! I agree completely. We are trying to get info they dont want us to have folks. They are not going to lay it out without coersion. As far as this particular method goes, it is far less invasive and traumatic that what they would use on us. Is it uncomfortable? yes probably, is it mentally traumatic? yes probably. But it gets results without crossing the line into physically invasive methods of real torture. And as an added bonus THEY get to walk away with thier heads attached!

"We are trying to get info they dont want us to have folks."

Couldnt that exact same thing be said about this administration?Considering the same thing aplys about getting answers from them about 9/11.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Black_Fox]

Originally posted by Black_Fox
"We are trying to get info they dont want us to have folks."

Couldnt that exact same thing be said about this administration?Considering the same thing aplys about getting answers from them about 9/11.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Black_Fox]

Probably LOL But good luck on Water boarding cheney

No doubt Black_Fox, we dont have the official story on 9-11. However, unless you have some official documents or secret recordings of such plans hidden up your sleeve I dont see us ever getting the real story. Be damned sure that if what you are saying is true, any proof is long gone.

And about the "torture". While I do consider this waterboarding torture, I consider it mild in camparison to other methods. I would much rather them use this than electrocution or G-d forbid something worse. Torture is a touchy subject, while part of me says its wrong the other part says we have to use it in some instances. I do not think is should become a routine thing, it should only be used in situations when we KNOW that they have sensitive info that will save lives.