Muslim leader: It's the woman's fault who is raped. She's "uncovered meat"

I don't know how it is in Australia but here in America people in the limelight are supposed to be held to higher moral and ethical standards. That includes politicians, celebrities (sports and entertainment). There have been many instances of politicians and celebrities saying stupid things (and doing stupid things) and we have the law of the land to judge them.

Yes, we have the first amendment that allows freedom of speech but it is with restrictions. As one famous leader once said: Your right to swing your fist in public ends where my nose begins." It is also against the law to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theatre (or any crowd). So, while words may not translate to actions, words are recognized as being the incitement to action.

I can not hold Australians/Aussie law to the same criteria as American law so when I voice my outrage at what an Australian public figure has said, please understand that it comes from my own cultural indoctrination and values.

Also, the Islamic religion is not a "breakoff" from the Jewish religion. Before Islam came into existence the Sabeans in Arabia worshipped the moon god who married the sun goddess who gave birth to three goddesses. They were called Al-lat, Al-uzza and Manat and were worshipped throughout that part of the world as the "Daughters of Allah". Allah was the moon god. He was just one of 360 idols in the Kabah (Islam's holy house of god) in Mecca. Muhammed knew about this. Muhammad wanted to create his own religion and needed the backing of his powerful tribe so he picked Allah, the moon-god which they (already) worshipped to be the one god and then declared himself to be Allah's prophet. The crescent moon is everywhere in Islam. Even Ramadan begins and ends with the crescent moon. In the 1950's a major temple to the moon-god was excavated at Hazor in Palestine. Two idols of the moon-god were found, proving Allah was a pre-Islamic (pagan) deity.

Now, before anyone starts having apopleptic fits and screaming "racist" or whatever, let me clarify that the Islamic religion is not limited to a particular race of people anymore than Judeo-Christianity is limited to Jews. I mearly point out Islamic roots of religion to show that it began in a culture that worshipped many "gods" and was during a time when women were considered cattle. There is not a race or continent on the planet that has not oppressed women in one way or another including WASPs in America.

If you shake your fist and say, "I'm gonna kick your a**" then, in this country, anyway, it is considered assault. If you actually hit them or even lay your hands on them it is considered assault AND battery. In the first instance, no actions were taken (to injure) but the person was made to feel threatened. It is forbidden here and punishable by law. Causing another person (or group of people) to feel threatened is illegal and carries a punishment. As I said, I don't know if Australian law has similar policies but in America the man could easily have had a class action law-suit by every woman in the country who felt threatened by his public speech. I hope that if such a law exists in Australia that every woman in that country would personally charge him with assault. Even if deportation were not an option for punishment, losing such a lawsuit on that scale would cost him enough in fines to make him think twice before "putting his money where his mouth is".

Originally posted by Diseria
And yet Hinduism accepts any and every religion because it's understood that no matter the name given to God, it's all really the same God, same idea, same essence.

you must be joking. Every religion has its extremists. Really depends on the person to be accepting, not the religion. I have seen Hindu people do equally bad things like the muslim terrorists do sometimes. Yet, only muslims are shown in the headlines. That does not mean one religion is better than the other or is more accepting. Depends on person to person.

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by Diseria
And yet Hinduism accepts any and every religion because it's understood that no matter the name given to God, it's all really the same God, same idea, same essence.

you must be joking. Every religion has its extremists. Really depends on the person to be accepting, not the religion. I have seen Hindu people do equally bad things like the muslim terrorists do...

Good point, here are some examples of Hindu treatment of women:

Link

Link

Originally posted by whitewave
I don't know how it is in Australia but here in America people in the limelight are supposed to be held to higher moral and ethical standards. That includes politicians, celebrities (sports and entertainment). There have been many instances of politicians and celebrities saying stupid things (and doing stupid things) and we have the law of the land to judge them.

When did any high authority get 'judged' and 'tried' for what they say in public.

Originally posted by whitewave
Yes, we have the first amendment that allows freedom of speech but it is with restrictions.

Here comes the double standard. When the pope, or the danish cartoonist express their opinion, then they are practicising freedom of speech. when the mufti says something, then he is a terrorist. Hypocricy at its highest.

Originally posted by whitewave
As one famous leader once said: Your right to swing your fist in public ends where my nose begins." It is also against the law to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theatre (or any crowd).

Mufti did not yell FIRE nor did he ask anyone to go out and RAPE women.

Originally posted by whitewave
Also, the Islamic religion is not a "breakoff" from the Jewish religion. Before Islam came into existence the Sabeans in Arabia worshipped the moon god who married the sun goddess who gave birth to three goddesses. They were called Al-lat, Al-uzza and Manat and were worshipped throughout that part of the world as the "Daughters of Allah". Allah was the moon god. He was just one of 360 idols in the Kabah (Islam's holy house of god) in Mecca. Muhammed knew about this. Muhammad wanted to create his own religion and needed the backing of his powerful tribe so he picked Allah, the moon-god which they (already) worshipped to be the one god and then declared himself to be Allah's prophet. The crescent moon is everywhere in Islam. Even Ramadan begins and ends with the crescent moon. In the 1950's a major temple to the moon-god was excavated at Hazor in Palestine. Two idols of the moon-god were found, proving Allah was a pre-Islamic (pagan) deity.

Maybe you should post sources to back your history lesson. And by sources, I mean, actual words from the Quran or some reputed Islamic website.
Even though you are going off topic, you should still provide credible sources.

Originally posted by whitewave
If you shake your fist and say, "I'm gonna kick your a**" then, in this country, anyway, it is considered assault. If you actually hit them or even lay your hands on them it is considered assault AND battery. In the first instance, no actions were taken (to injure) but the person was made to feel threatened. It is forbidden here and punishable by law. Causing another person (or group of people) to feel threatened is illegal and carries a punishment.

I do not understand how the mufti explicitly threatened anyone.

Originally posted by whitewave
As I said, I don't know if Australian law has similar policies but in America the man could easily have had a class action law-suit by every woman in the country who felt threatened by his public speech. I hope that if such a law exists in Australia that every woman in that country would personally charge him with assault. Even if deportation were not an option for punishment, losing such a lawsuit on that scale would cost him enough in fines to make him think twice before "putting his money where his mouth is".

So you guys get some NEWS that a mufti called uncovered women 'meat' and said they are more prone to rape.

From that statement, it somehow should be considered an assault on all australian women and mufti should be arrested.

Arrest the pope for calling Islam violent and causing an outrage which led to riots. Afterall, it was his words that caused the riots to occur in the first place.

Arrest the danish cartoonist for drawing religiously insulting cartoons and causing an outrage which led to riots. Afterall, it was his words that caused the riots to occur in the first place.

I dont see anyone asking that. Mufti's words have however not caused anyone to go and rape a women. And even if a rapist claims it was mufti's words that caused him to carry out the rape, mufti should not be arrested since the pope and danish cartoonist are still roaming free after causing a worldwide outrage.

See the double standards there?

Anyone who claims that mufti's words are an insult to all women and blah blah blah. What about the pope's words? They were an insult to all muslims which include women, men and children.

Hypocrites.

A little experiment.

Go back to the damish cartoonist or the pope speech posts.

Replace the words 'Danish cartoonist/Pope' with 'Mufti' and replace 'muslims' with 'women'. you can also raplce 'west' or 'danish' with 'australia' or 'australian' for more clarity.

and VOILA!!!

Hypocrites.

Just wanted to say that I would be just as outraged if a Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist, Methodist, Mormon, Presbyterian, Amish, Anglican, Shinto, Calvinist, Jewish, Greek Orhtodox, Russian Orthodox, Baptist or any other male from whatever religion had made these comments.

I am have no problem with people in general, just idiots that are in the position to influence and incite acts of violence towards others.

Is this clear ?

BTW The mods need to tell others not to use asterisks and I did see someone else has used a vulgarity in this thread apart from me.

Good for one, Good for all I say. Let's not discriminate


In pace Always
resi

Resitancia, So you dont mind individuals saying the same thing as long as their not speaking to a group of people. Have you heard of free speech, people are entiltled to say what they like if you like it or not. It is for the authorites to decide if any person has transgessed any laws and if so to deal with the situation acordingly.

This is happening far to often, the thought police screaming from the roof tops about what people say. People such as you actually errode the freedom of speech in democracies, the so eveysone must be politically correct, otherwise they should be carted off to prison. If you want to live in a democracy and have freedom and liberty then you have to expect that sometimes people are going to say things you dont want to hear or do not agree with, well thats just life is it not. And its a fact of life that from a Radical Muslim perspective western society on a whole is seen as decadent and immoral.

Ths persons comments would be seen by many as ignorant and abhorrent, but it is our duty to educate such people, not to shout them down, not to call them names. To do that does not make them go away they will still have those views, I would rather people say what they think and then discuss the reason for their views rather than just shut them up and ignore them. One has to look at issues in an logical way rather than a screaming fit emotional, such emeotions clouds ones judgement and is counter productive. And I resent the attitude that all men are potential rapists such statements are wrong and are emotional, in the UK its a statistical fact that mothers kill their children but not all mothers are murderers are they. You need to look at these situations with clarity rather than being bigoted.

This guy can say what he want, but if his peers just look the other way and a week later continue talking about the religion of peace (unless you're - -a woman?) while the same people screamed bloody murder over cartoons (!!) a while ago, it makes me think that they believe we're all dumber than we look.

say what you want, but this guy should no longer enjoy the respect (and support) of his community and peers, otherwise i think we all know what it means.

Originally posted by Long Lance
say what you want, but this guy should no longer enjoy the respect (and support) of his community and peers, otherwise i think we all know what it means.

How about u replace 'this guy' with 'pope' or 'danish cartoonist'. since its exactly the same thing. and then read ur sentence again

hey,
UK women should feel nice and safe with this mentality walking around our streets...


see, here in the UK a senior Muslim see's nothing wrong in what this guy said..

www.timesonline.co.uk...


Guess then if a senior OZ muslim thinks it, and a senior UK muslim thinks it...well it says alot about the mentality of muslim men in general. Wonder who else in authority in the muslim world thinks this... be interesting to see who stands up and denounces him.. but i'll not hold my breath.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Riley, I'm not defending this person the point I am making is that its the Muslim shooting season is it not.

You are and have been defending him as you keep coming up with all sorts of flimsy excuses for him with very little condemnation of what he said. Congratulations.. you are defending someone who condones the raping of white women. 5% of what you say is "Yeah he shouldn't have said that" and 95% is [paraphrased] "..but if you're upset about it it's cuz you're just racist."
As proven by this:

If anybody else had said this the story would not of lasted 5 minutes,

Nice try but WE ARE still hearing about the pope's comments. Perhaps you should use the race card when it actually exists.. imagined or hypathetical 'what if' persecution doesn't count.

if this person is breaking the law then the authorities can/will do something about it, if he's not then its free speach if you like it or not.

We have hate speach laws in our country.. not every country follows america's legal system.

Democracies dont consist of some having the right to free speech but not others.

This person obviously doesn't like democracy or women not wearing veils.. so why did he choose to live in one? He was in the cue to be deported when he suddenly was ordained a cleric. Most people here do not come out with such extream rubbish as they know one of the basics of a multicultural democracy is equality and respect for all.

You, I and all the posters on this thread were not at that meetiing, we dont know what was said or how it was said.

Yes we do. It's been translated over and over again by several different people and transcripts of his entire speech are available.. I do believe even the audio is available. There were also 500 people at that meeting and [again ] the bloke has not denied saying it. I'm sure he'd appreciate your coming to his defence and all but maybe you should check up on what his official defence is rather than contradicting him. He has not claimed that he was mistranslated.. but given the fact you keep saying this suggests you know absolutely nothing about him or this speech. Have you even read it? Or read the link to the rapists he was refferring to? Why do you keep defending him?

But its seems were now in a situation where if any Muslim says anything its anti West, anti Women, their terrorists etc.

I think you had better go back to page 1 and re-read what he said. He is not just 'any muslim' and didn't just say 'anything' [rape is just 'anything' is it? :shk:]. He compared rape victims to uncovered meat.. sorry but that doesn't just seem to be anti-women.. it IS anti-women.
..and before someone chimes in saying he didn't.. he claimed that women not wearing the scarf attracts sexual deviants and then started carrying on about the lengthy jail sentences.

One ignorant fool opens his mouth and the whole is tainted.

Well it may seem that way to YOU but perhaps if you payed attention you would notice that I have not tainted all muslims.. neither has everyone else in this thread.
Hows this sound?:
"It seems that if a woman takes offence at something a muslim cleric says.. she's tainted with the 'racist' slur." Or perhaps it's just my own fault for not wearing a veil..
BTW. He is not an 'ignorant fool'.. he is a leader in the islamic faith so is considered 'wise' by default. It's a position which asserts moral authority and commands respect from his followers. Now, if you really believe he is an ignorant fool, rather than expecting him to be given immunity from being criticized.. you could lend your support to the muslims who want his power taken away. Why aren't you supporting them instead? Why are you more disgusted at him being insulted rather than the insults he spewed? He represents the muslim faith.. does he represent you? My muslim friends are furious at his comments and do not feel obliged to defend him. They feel more obliged to defend and protect their faith instead by insisting he be thrown out.

You and others make it sound like people of the Muslim faith are some kind of robots,

Me? I beg your pardon?! Point out where I have been racist/biggoted against the entire islamic faith.. oh but you can't can you? All I've done was mention individuals and their actions and suggested that the gang rapists may've been followers of his as he certainly has sympathy for them and shares similar ideals. I think he might know them. YOU are the one quick to make judgements on what type of people we are.

not people with brains in their heads who know right from wrong. The assumption is made that if he says it others will think it, well who is being ignorant know.

My friends aren't rapists.. but there are a few muslims who have chosen the wrong thing [as with everyone].. or did I imagine the race-gang rapes [one victim was a friend of mine. She's probably not the only one that didn't report it], the race riots and imagine having a rock hit me at a train station because I was a deemed a 'white slut'? Someone has systematically taught these kids to hate and abuse white women. When powerful leaders in a community play pide piper [propoganda] there will always be a few willing to follow them off a cliff. Do you think German soldiers knew right from wrong? Slave owners? The KKK.. the taliban? I'm sure they thought they were in the right. Hate is universal and when clerics, priests, popes and even celebrities say 'It's okay to do the wrong thing under this circumstance' someone will consider this as moral justification to live out sadistic fantasies. Humanity has a dark side.

I have to say.. I find it hypcrtical that you are the one saying that we must be assuming that 'muslims have no brains and dont know right from wrong' when you opened the thread with this:

I'm not defending this person the point I am making is that its the Muslim shooting season is it not.

So only muslims know right from wrong now? You have made alot of assumptions about 'non musllms' here.. including that we want to shoot them. Are we going to round them up as well?
If you are going to keep accusing me and others of being racist.. back it up and don't practice it.

If women are uncovered meat he is steaming dog crap.

Australians are weak. this sort of crap from him and his twits, should be jailed then deported
for being UN AUSTRALIAN.
And if u did this in his country u would be stoned or shot to death.

islamofascist plain and simple

[edit on 29-10-2006 by Jezza]

[edit on 29-10-2006 by Jezza]

Riley, your just another one of those emotional thought police, Im not racist and I dont agree with what this person said you dont even know me or anything about me so so be so ignorant, dont confuse freedom of speech with with condoning this mans word. And as for rascism how many here on ATS are so ready to condem and call Muslims, PLENTY there are lots of people doing this and are hiding behind the idea that they are just condeming what people say, well its rascism pure and simple.

You and other can say what you want to me I would defend that freedom of speech as I have said before but just because my views dont fit your or anybody else's socio/political agenda does not meam I'm wrong or not intitled to my views. Everybody seems to be steping forward to bash people of the Muslim faith most of whom have no understanding of Muslims or their religion, How about getting to know the people and their faith thats the inteligent thing to do is it not.

As I posted before women everywher have been persecuted by men, and are still facing persecution and discrimation yet you and others make it sound like its just a Muslim thing when its not so why dont you and others tell the truth rather than just pointing the finger at Muslims, is it because your the racist.

HalfMinded,

"When did any high authority get judged and tried for what they say in public?"
Right now Foley is having to answer for quite a bit and it wasn't even said publically. There are plenty of examples of Americans in the limelight having said stupid things publically that they've had to answer for.

"Here comes the double standard..."
I said NOTHING about the Danish cartoonist or the pope. You have no idea what my opinions are on those subjects. I don't appreciate you assigning an opinion to me.

"Mufti did not yell FIRE nor did he ask anyone to go out and RAPE women."
I didn't say he did. Those words you put in my mouth sure were tasty. MMMMM. He DID imply that it was okay to rape women who were uncovered.

"Maybe you should post sources to back your history lesson. And by sources I mean actual words from the Quran or some reputed Islamic website."
I hardly think the Quran or any Islamic website is going to confess to pagan origins and inventing a religion. If you'd like other sources, though-happy to oblige. But as you mentioned, it is off-topic. Islamic origins wasn't the main focus of the point I was trying to make anyway.

"I do not understand how the Mufti explicity threatened anyone."
You must be male. Did you feel threatened when the pope made his stupid remarks? Apparently, according to your earlier example, many Muslims did feel threatened and rioted as a result. If I am mistaken that the Muslims did not feel threatened but only insulted then the double standard and hypocrisy I was accused of does not apply. If I am not mistaken, then thank you for making my point for me.

"Arrest the pope...and Danish cartoonist..."
INSULTING people is not the same as making them feel THREATENED. In poor taste, no doubt, and if the insult were slanderous or libelous, they too, would be punishable by law (in America).

Justify this.

Pope (P) and the danish cartoonist (D) insulted all muslims of the world.
Mufti insulted all (uncovered) women of the world.

P's and D's words caused an outrage and riots in some places.
Mufti's words did not cause anyone to go and rape women.

P and D were justified with freedom of speech and US first amendment even though neither live in US.
Mufti is condemened for speaking and suddenly everyone forgets freedom of speech and keeps reminding that he doesnt live in US.

P and D are still roaming free and people supported them through their time of 'controversy'.
Mufti is being demanded to put in jail or be deported and people are constantly condemning him for his words. No actions involved, only words.

Now lets see the difference.
Mufti is the only muslim man out of the three. VOILA.

Hypocrites.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Riley, your just another one of those emotional thought police,

Why would you call me names.. 'emotional thought police'? Could it be because I dare to express thoughts that you don't agree with?

Im not racist

Then why would you assume all non musims that condemn this man are out to get all muslims.. that kind of sounds like racial generalisations.

and I dont agree with what this person said you dont even know me or anything about me so so be so ignorant,

More name calling.

dont confuse freedom of speech with with condoning this mans word.

No. I didn't confuse anything. When you defend someone's words you are condoning them.. otherwise you wouldn't defend them in the first place. Either you agree with him or you don't.

And as for rascism how many here on ATS are so ready to condem and call Muslims, PLENTY there are lots of people doing this

I'm sure some [SOME] do. They are in the minority.

and are hiding behind the idea that they are just condeming what people say, well its rascism pure and simple.

Whoever you are,
You are again accusing me of using this incident as an exuse to be racist against muslims. Again.. I ask you NOT to accuse me of something I haven't done.. otherwise prove it. Very clever that you have now accused me of 'hiding' my racism through.. means you can scream the word 'racist'* without backing it up. My anger over this issue is because a man IMO is trying to incite rape against white women. As a woman that is enough to be bloody angry over.. are the race rapes going to start up again? I don't know.. but this has the potential to inspire extreamists to 'prove his point' about white women. Hell.. some might try scaring women into converting like sep 11. Rape has been used as a weapon of war for centuries.. for those who believe in jihad and blowing people up they might see it has an alternative metohod of terrorism. It scares me and the last spate of race rapes was almost milatary in the way it was organised. White women.. all women have ample reason to be afraid and pissed right off.
I would be just as irritated if the pope said something similar.. he's been offensive before but hasn't said that though.

You and other can say what you want to me I would defend that freedom of speech

Are you going to sing the anthem now..?

as I have said before but just because my views dont fit your or anybody else's socio/political agenda does not meam I'm wrong or not intitled to my views.

In fact you have not expressed you own views.. you've only defended the views of a rapist sympathiser. I have no idea what your views on women are. What are they if not the same as the imam's?

Everybody seems to be steping forward to bash people of the Muslim faith

Bashing one person who happens to be muslim.. and how is condemning in bashing him? Bashing implies that the person being criticized is somehow innocent. He's not.

most of whom have no understanding of Muslims or their religion,

Actaully I know quite alot about the Muslim faith. The habbib only became part of tradition about 100 years ago [probably via groups like the taliban]. Before that only dressing modestly was required.

How about getting to know the people and their faith thats the inteligent thing to do is it not.

I do.

As I posted before women everywher have been persecuted by men, and are still facing persecution and discrimation

Yes they are.

yet you and others make it sound like its just a Muslim thing when its not

Did you read his speach? Read about the gang rapes? Terrorists attacks? It is with a minority of muslims but it is a 'muslim thing' for some [depending on what sub-religion they are]. The taliban are muslim. The rapists are muslim and so was the imam.. whats more they've all acted in honour of their version of the Islamic faith. Deal with it and don't blame their victims.

so why dont you and others tell the truth rather than just pointing the finger at Muslims,

So.. we're are not alloud to point the finger at bad people because they fall under the muslim banner and you can accuse others of biggotry for daring to do so? Wow.. talk about diplomatic immunity.

is it because your the racist.

[And there it is..*]
Aw shucks.. you're just sayin that cuz I'm white eh?

[edit on 29-10-2006 by riley]

Whitewave,

"When did any high authority get judged and tried for what they say in public?"
Right now Foley is having to answer for quite a bit and it wasn't even said publically. There are plenty of examples of Americans in the limelight having said stupid things publically that they've had to answer for.

But I dont see the world news discussing him or putting him intolimelight constantly. Neither do I see anyone condemning his words. Maybe cause hes not a muslim.

"Here comes the double standard..."
I said NOTHING about the Danish cartoonist or the pope. You have no idea what my opinions are on those subjects. I don't appreciate you assigning an opinion to me.

You didnt say it, i know. When did I say that it was only you who said it. when did i point my finger to u. I was speaking genrally about the hypocricy. But u took it personally. Even i dont appreciate you assigning an opinion to me. But then maybe its just your guilty conscience. who knows.

"Mufti did not yell FIRE nor did he ask anyone to go out and RAPE women."
I didn't say he did. Those words you put in my mouth sure were tasty. MMMMM. He DID imply that it was okay to rape women who were uncovered.

Tasty indeed. And u implying that I in any way said that u did are also tasty words. MMM. Mufti did not imply anything. He was giving a justification for rape. Not a good justification though.

"Maybe you should post sources to back your history lesson. And by sources I mean actual words from the Quran or some reputed Islamic website."
I hardly think the Quran or any Islamic website is going to confess to pagan origins and inventing a religion. If you'd like other sources, though-happy to oblige. But as you mentioned, it is off-topic. Islamic origins wasn't the main focus of the point I was trying to make anyway.

So they wont confess? lol. So maybe u had a prophetic dream which showed u the origin of Islam. Lol.

"I do not understand how the Mufti explicity threatened anyone."
You must be male. Did you feel threatened when the pope made his stupid remarks? Apparently, according to your earlier example, many Muslims did feel threatened and rioted as a result. If I am mistaken that the Muslims did not feel threatened but only insulted then the double standard and hypocrisy I was accused of does not apply. If I am not mistaken, then thank you for making my point for me.

The hypocricy is on ur part. The women should be enraged about this. But everyone condemned muslims at that time because muslims were enraged due to these words and most poeple did not condemn pope. They kept justifying pope with freedom of speech ad blah blah blah. Hoewerver, in this case everyone is equally united in condemning the mufti. Even though both pope and mufti only spoke words. Neither specifically threatened anyone regardless of what they implied.

"Arrest the pope...and Danish cartoonist..."
INSULTING people is not the same as making them feel THREATENED. In poor taste, no doubt, and if the insult were slanderous or libelous, they too, would be punishable by law (in America).

Its funny how american apply their laws to non-americans when it suits them and quickly withdraw those laws when it doesnt. Again double standards. Why isnt everyone screaming freedom of speech now? coz mufti is muslim??

Still no one has justified my earlier comparison of P and D with the mufti.

The double standards are crystal clear.

I would condemn P and D and the mufti and any others like him regardless of religion or race.

But majority of the world only jumps to condemn when a muslim figure makes statements like these and that same majority defends P and D with justifications. the favourite one being, freedom of speech.

Riley does your anger over the rape of women only extend to white women or all women. Iraqi women who are being raped by US/UK forces they dont count do they as they are Muslims. Yet again you acuse me of supporting what this man said, i dont support what he said but in a democracy people have a right to speak, if a person breaks any laws then the authorities have a right to deal with that person do they not. obviously your a supporter of dictatorships and despots. And I called you one of the emotional thought police not to shut you up but to show you that your interpretation of free speech is what you and like minded people think it is.

In other words people can say what you allow them to say, there is to much of this going on the high and mighty preaching to the rest of us what we can and cannot think as it may offend your delicate ears. Its alright for the UK/US to murder women in Iraq and Afganistan, and Iran soon that obviously dosent bother you but the rantings of one man do, talk about being hypocritical. But I dont blame you, your scared, you believe all the lies from Bush/Blair and Co of all them nasty Muslims wanting to take over the world, thats whats hidden in your double speak and people like you, pretending to be one thing but are something else.

And by the way I'm a white middle class catholic.

Originally posted by riley
I'm sure some [SOME] do. They are in the minority.

Everyone knows thats not true. you can go back and pick up any post at random and see how many people are quick to make assumptions about muslims, quran and Islam. They are also quick to point fingers and get angry when someone tried to argue their points. Its like they follow a universal law. Which is the law of 'hate all muslims' which was derived from the original law of 'Muslims are terrorists'. I have seen these generalizations done here numerous times over and over again.

Originally posted by riley
Bashing one person who happens to be muslim.. and how is condemning in bashing him? Bashing implies that the person being criticized is somehow innocent. He's not.

What was meant was that mostly people only bash the muslim person in the spotlight. Pope and danish cartoonist were defended even though they also did the same thing. Insult a whole group of people publicly.

As I said earlier. No one justified that earlier. WhiteWave tried but failed. He was trying to reverse the blame but it didnt work.

Originally posted by riley
Actaully I know quite alot about the Muslim faith. The habbib only became part of tradition about 100 years ago [probably via groups like the taliban]. Before that only dressing modestly was required.

I am sure you do. Just like every other ATS member claims to have extensice knowledge of Islam. But explain to me one thing. After all this knowledge of Islam and the Quran, why do you not know the meaning of the word Habib (or habbib as u wrote it).
In fact Habib is one of the very common words of Arabic. It means 'Dear' or 'Lover'. Just like you call your wife or girlfriend 'dear' affectionately, in Arabic, its Habib.

So since you dont know the meaning of this simple oftrn used word. I can bet that your claim of knowledge of Islamic faith is downright a lie. So if you can tell such a blatant lie then why would anyone even listen to u.

Originally posted by riley
Did you read his speach? Read about the gang rapes? Terrorists attacks? It is with a minority of muslims but it is a 'muslim thing' for some [depending on what sub-religion they are]. The taliban are muslim. The rapists are muslim and so was the imam.. whats more they've all acted in honour of their version of the Islamic faith. Deal with it and don't blame their victims.

So now u can blame the gang rapes and the terrorist attacks of the world all on the mufti. And since the mufti is a muslim. You can safely assume that all muslims think like that and act like that.

Originally posted by riley
So.. we're are not alloud to point the finger at bad people because they fall under the muslim banner and you can accuse others of biggotry for daring to do so? Wow.. talk about diplomatic immunity.

Apparantly the only bad people in the media these days are muslims regardless of actions. When P and D insulted Islam then they were not 'bad' people. But mufti insulted women and he is 'bad'.

And It really depends on the speech. I ask all of you. How many of you actually read his Arabic speech? the original one?
If someone has it then please post it.

From my understanding, the mufti was discussing the importance of muslim Hijab (not Habib, lol). He meant to say that women wearing hijab are less likely to be raped rather than women who are out there openly displaying themselves. And he used a very bad example to prove it.

Although I am not a big fan of the muslim Hijab rule, nor am I too happy with the mufti's example. I dont just go around pointing fingers. I wanna read the original version of his speech in arabic before I can deduce my own understanding from his speech. Until then, I wold not trust the medi'a translation. I am not saying that they deliberately change it, but there could be posible errors in translation. Even if the translation is perfect, mufti was discussing the 'advantage' of hijab. He did not however urge anyone to go out and rape white women as some have claimed.

Originally posted by riley
Whoever you are,
You are again accusing me of using this incident as an exuse to be racist against muslims. Again..

Your above replies were not meant for me but still I will try to answer them. Lot of times I have seen people pass judgements on muslims and also pass unpleasent remarks about Islam and all muslims in general everytime I see a thread about some muslim involved news which is very common. For some, its a free for all. Very few people actually discuss the issues at hand and try to get a better understanding. Most of the people come with made up minds about certain things and they come her to fuel hatred and hinder in the discussions. Its a common issue here. And its not limited to just muslim bashing, it can be about almost anything. And if you dont reply to them then they feel like they have won the argument somehow and start making more false claims.

Originally posted by riley
I ask you NOT to accuse me of something I haven't done.. otherwise prove it. Very clever that you have now accused me of 'hiding' my racism through.. means you can scream the word 'racist'* without backing it up.

Another mistake made by people. example: If someone condems the mufti then he must be racist against muslims. This is why we need to filter out the people who just come here to spread hate and try to get into sensible discussions with people who are more open minded. A common trait of such people is that they love to go off-topic instead of keeping the discussion limited to the topic and directly related issues.