Vehicles and Transportation.

The scenario:

Local or regional events mean you need to get out of the region as effectively as possible. Fuel may be at a premium and roads may be closed. You may be required to travel offroad to avoid affected areas/checkpoints/etc. and live in/on your vehicle.

I've thought about it for a long time, and am now in the process of finishing off my survival rig:



Last month I spent 9 days out riding backroads, dirt roads, and offroad, camping every night, and have my BOB and vehicle pretty well sorted, to where i can be ready to ride and camp for an indefinite amount of time. The drawback is that it still needs fossil fuels, but if i tune the carb and replace a few o-rings it should run off ethanol. If ethnaol fuels were more widely available i'd have already tuned for it.

Let's see your survival vehicle!

mod edit: removed survivalist from title due to creation of new forum

[edit on 12-12-2006 by UK Wizard]

I was actually going to see if anyone had some ideas for an inexpensive but durable mountain bike that was also easy to repair. It occurs to me that a bicycle is probably overall the best Situation X type vehicle, considering it needs no fuel or food, is relatively silent, can travel between very narrow gaps, and can be easily lifted over water and other impassable areas. And of bikes, a mountain bike would make the most sense as roads may not be an option at times, and while a mountain bike works fine on a road, a street bike does pretty poor in the bush.

However, if I could have only one motorized vehicle for Situation X, it would absolutely be a dirt bike like the one you've got there.

you may want to think about learning how to make Ethanol for your rig, not only would you be able to make your own fuel but also it can be used medicinally and as a hygenic agent. Also you may want a bow and arrows or a good 30/30 rifle for hunting. I'm considering getting into this survivalist thing as well just incase.

Originally posted by JackJuice
I'm considering getting into this survivalist thing as well just incase.

Check out the link in my sig if you're interested in reading the survivalist threads. I try to keep an updated nest of links in there as they get created. You'd be amazed how much information is available from the members here. I've been into survival since the scouts, and I'm still learning new ideas and perspectives from all the other contributors to the threads.

Out of curiosity though, in regards to this particular thread, how do you make your own ethanol (or biodiesel for that matter)? Provided Situation X happens, I won't be able to go down to the local FattyBurger and loot their greasepit, and I have absolutely no idea how to refine oil out of plants.

That's why I have my horse. He happily eats a diet of grass, I don't have to change his oil and he has a great intuition when it comes to impending danger.

Very nice emergency vehicle !
I have tossed around the idea of getting an off road bike myself.
Remember that incase of 'sit-x' you would probably want to disconnect your brake light!
I have an old pick-up truck that I have mounted my bicycle on front and I have it fully fuelled and sitting in my garage. If I should need to bug out I can toss in all of my gear (and the family to ofcourse). Unfortunatly its not a 4 wheel drive truck, but it was all I could afford.
I live in a small town so I dont really expect to go anywhere in sit-x. I expect to sit in place and protect whats mine, but the ability to travel is something we should all try to secure for ourselfs. You never know where (or why) you may need to go somewhere.
I suggest that an emergency vehicle have a B.O.B. of its own, like Libra said about different levels of 'ready'.
The vehicle B.O.B. should have a good map, topographical if possible, and perhaps spare parts and extra fuel for the vehicle.

Originally posted by forestlady
That's why I have my horse. He happily eats a diet of grass, I don't have to change his oil and he has a great intuition when it comes to impending danger.

I wish I had a horse. All I have is a horse-like dog. Which, as a side note, is still the best alarm system ever.

If it were possible, I'd go for a horse. It's a weapon, a friend, transportation, and if need be, dinner. It needs only grass (available everywhere) to keep going, and is pretty good across all terrain types.

DE

Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by JackJuice
I'm considering getting into this survivalist thing as well just incase.

Out of curiosity though, in regards to this particular thread, how do you make your own ethanol (or biodiesel for that matter)? Provided Situation X happens, I won't be able to go down to the local FattyBurger and loot their greasepit, and I have absolutely no idea how to refine oil out of plants.

Check out this Site about making ethanol.
The site talks about ethanol and at the bottom the have information on techniques and even kits you can purchase to start making your own ethanol. Plus you can make E85 if your car is complient.

Thanks for the link on ethanol, ! I'll be reading it shortly.

I also wanted to mention that those whom have or plan to get a horse for transportation in Situation X may want to learn the (ahem) ins and outs of horse vet medicine and horse care and horse riding. As far as I know, they're able to catch more health problems than any "work" creature I can think of.

I spent two weeks on horseback in the mountains of New Mexico (Philmont to those of you in Scouts), and each rider pretty much lived on what we could carry in two saddle bags, a bedroll, with one pack horse per eight people. It's a little faster than travelling on foot, but if you're off a path, trying to get through brush, it's actually much slower than walking. Not only do you have to constantly worry about your horse's footing, but you have to find large enough gaps to get both of you through.

We had to do months of training ahead of time before the trip, because an unskilled rider in the wilderness is a lot more likely to get himself and his mount killed, and not just through accidents, but little things, like not cleaning the crud out of the hoofs constantly, checking the shoes, replacing the shoes, curry brushing, getting a panicked hose back up off the ground without getting seriously wounded or killed, even down to the little things like how to walk around the back of a horse without them kicking you, and many many other things I'm sure I'm forgetting about...

That's just the basic maintenance, add to it that modern horses can subsist off grass for a while, but to remain healthy they need oats occasionally, and medicines, and sometimes need their intestines unknotted, and there's a lot to learn. Horses are wonderful creatures when they're healthy, but a nightmare when they're ill, and more maintenance than any vehicle short of a porsche.

However, if you can learn these skills before they're needed, then by all means this opens up an entirely new avenue of transportation for you that most people won't have or won't be able to utilize as well. Just remember, there's about a thousand ways to get injured or killed by a horse before you've even mounted it.

My BOV is being designed and built by me and my family. We are building a tube chassis it will have room for my kids my wife and our supplies. we also have areas ware we can snap in modules depending on need. I have designed in a place for four bikes.

I know it sounds big but its very small very light and I'm working on one heck of a power plant for it. I'm also incorporating a hydrogen assist system to help with the fuel mileage. It is 4 wheel drive with serious off road capabilities. The module idea was in my opinion one of the best ideas I've ever had.

I've already set up one module with a family BOB. To anybody that has ever thought of building there own I would recommend getting books on building race car chassis for getting the basics down. I've been building race cars for about ten years so it was only natural for me to build it myself.

So if Situation X gives me time reason and opportunity to bug out I'm all set. another good vehicle for bugging out in if you just have to move you and your BOB A small go-cart/mini buggy is a great vehicle for short fast runs. I started out with four of these one for me one for my wife and one for each kid. However I decided to build just one larger one because the idea of my family and I getting separated scares the heck out of me. we live or die together, as all family's should. The style Of buggies I started with is in the link. Very nice very fast and handles like a dream out of the box in sand. I had to do a little altering for it to handle well on the hard packed trails of southern Michigan. Look around the web for Do it yourself parts idea. Such as a rack and pinion stering system out of a older hyundai can be altered for a mini buggie.


small go-cart/mini buggy starting point!!!!!


[edit on 28-10-2006 by angryamerican]

I have been giving this some thought for a Bug out Vehicle.

NorthWolf on the thread "how to defend yourself on a budget" mentioned that when he was in the Finnish Army in the field they used a type of Kawasaki off road bike. As I recall this model comes with various engines between some 400 to 600 cc in displacement. Some of the militarys use bikes like this which will run on diesel or jet fuel. I think for civilian purposes a gasoline model will have to do.

What I made note about concerning this bike is that Northwolf stated it was a very very rugged bike which would be my first requriement.

I have not forgotten this and am still considering it. I own several mopeds but they would not be sufficient for this application though I ride my moped alot to and fro work. Glad to see others are considering it or have experience out in the field with this type of bike.

By the way...excellent point about one poster ...disconnecting the lighting system when needed. Thanks..this would also be true in a 4 wheeled vehicle used for bug out or like during the war...operating with very narrow slits.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Tom
A small correction they were KTMs to be exact LC4 400 models, and they can take more pounding than we drivers could... and we rode them in forrest with knee deep snow, insane but still the bikes kept on going we took them into places that Nasus* couldn't go.

KTM 400


*Nasu=Finnish ATV

I chose the KLR650 because it's cheap, easy to wrench, rugged, and goes anywhere. It's the kind of bike you can fix with pliers and baling wire, has lots of range (and even more when i get my 7 gallon tank installed) and will do all things well enough that it's truly an all terrain vehicle.

If i need stealth mode, i can cover my taillight with duct tape and unplug one of my headlights pretty quickly. It's also not excessively loud.

When i trail ride, I often see border partol out on their ATV's and with this bike i can roost on 'em no problem, especially on tight technical trails, but a twisty dirt road is sufficient to shake' em loose. I like to already have my bike parked, helmet off, and kicking back by the time they come sliding full throttle around the last bend. Even when i ride only moderately aggressive, i'm still faster, while they're hanging it out full throttle. Playing with them is fun, and good practice for the day it really matters.

The KTM's are nice but expensive. The Marines use a diesel/JP5/Flex Fuel model of the KLR650 with some mods.

i have to say :

the armstrong MT500



as used by HM armed forces , used abused and still keeps going

comes with purpose built pannier points fron / back plus other goodies

as for the thorny issue of fuel availiability and range

if the world is going to crap , be prepared to abandon your precious bike , on PURPOSE .

with a 20l jerry can on one panner point - and a full tank - that bike will potentially get you 500 miles+ away from your start point

fast , and effortlessly

see it as a slingshot - to put an "instant " gap between you and trouble

Northwolf...I chuckle when you describe the experience. You speak with a certain respect for this vehicle and It is noted here on this end. Around 400 cc would be plenty for me. 600 cc would be a waste.

I dont know much about the costs of the various models. Also I never considered that you could get different sized gas tanks for them. This would be a advantage in certain conditions where range was needed.

I am still considering it and it was intresting to see such a thread on this as a BOV.

THanks to all,
Orangetom

I have been keeping this topic of a on off road type bike in my mind for some time now since Northwolf mentioned how rugged the newer generation of off road bikes have become. Also as I am now aware the military is taking a intrest in them with suitable modifications of course. This clearly means that they must be somewhat GI proof so to speak.
Durable and rugged is my first requirement for this type of tool ..just like my rifles and handguns...even the tools in my tool box in my garage....durable and rugged.

I have been looking up the various models on the web but want a view from someones personal experience with them...not just sales data.

Some questions about your selection.

Though 600 to 650 ccs seems to be a bit large for my preference I am wondering how fast this bike will go on the open road..how many gears ..also in your trips what is the average gas milage you have been able to measure...on road and also off road if you have been able to keep track of this data. A rough estimate will do.

Do you know by your experience any particular weak link in the designs or by the experiences of others?? Curious about this aspect too.

Also very much of intrest to me was the concept you posted of getting a larger gas tank..some seven or so gallons if I recall. This seemed like a worthwhile endevour or modification to make. Did you ever get this modification completed??

That looks like some rugged country out there but a dirt bike is pretty much what the doctor ordered for that terrain.

I thank you in advance for your consideration.

Orangetom

The bikes look great,they will have their obvious advantages in speed and mobility and are easy to hide,but the disadvantages are in a family situation and ones supply`s are limited.

I`ve been looking to buy or build one of these or something similar.



With the bonus of carrying capacity,shelter,solar panels etc.

I`ve looked at one going for about 60k thats been for sale for years now I often pass whist out driving,but I`m taking my time on making my mind up.

I`m unsure of the cost of buying a medium sized bus and getting a 4x4 conversion done on it,but will in the not so distant future.

Originally posted by thelibra
I was actually going to see if anyone had some ideas for an inexpensive but durable mountain bike that was also easy to repair. It occurs to me that a bicycle is probably overall the best Situation X type vehicle, considering it needs no fuel or food, is relatively silent, can travel between very narrow gaps, and can be easily lifted over water and other impassable areas.

A mountain bike is a brilliant you would want to attach some kind of a trailer because there is a limited to how much a person can carry on there back. You would need a supply of oil for the bikes chain and the ability to replace and assemble all of the bikes parts.