Herodotus & the channel under the great pyramid

Has anybody else here read Herodotus' Histories?

In the second book, in which he tells about Egypt, Herodotus mentions twice a channel leading from the Nile to underneath the Great Pyramid. Here are the paragraphs (I'm quoting this from my book, unfortunately I do not have a link for an online version of The Histories):


2.124: "...for the underground chambers on the heights upon which the pyramids stand, which he [Cheops] caused to made as sepulchral chambers for himself an island, having conducted a channel from the Nile"

And

2.127: "This Cheops, the Egyptians said, reigned for fifty years; and after he was dead his brother Chephren succeeded him. This kind behaved much like his brother, in all the rest and also he made a pyramid, not indeed attaining to the measurements of the former (this I know, having myself also measured it) and moreover there are no underground chambers beneath nor does come a channel from the Nile flowing to this one as to the other, in which the water coming through a conduit flows around an island within, where they say that Cheops himself is laid."


Has such a channel with an island ever been found, or even looked for..? If it exists somewhere underneath the pyramid, leading to Cheops' tomb, it would well explain the empty sargophagus in the upper chamber, which would have been put there to make grave robbers to think there is no tomb nor anything valuable inside the pyramid after all. Perhaps the chambers that have been found, alongside the mysterious ventilation shafts are nothing more but a diversion to distract unwelcome visitors from finding the real tomb of Cheops and whatever may be inside it buried with him.


I'm sorry if this has already been discussed before. Cheers


[edit on 25-10-2006 by Jean Ange]

I have read Herodotus, but right now don't remember those passages. It's been about a decade since I read it though.

There were supposed to many channels from the Nile some extending for significant distances into the desert. I remember reading, I believe in one of Graham Hancock's books, where three sea-worthy ships were found buried along side one pyramid, but I'm not sure if it was at Giza, or another location. Now, of course, Luxor is described to have a channel that was intended to flood a large part of the complex when the Nile flooded.

Man, now you make me want to go read all these books again.

[edit on 10-25-2006 by Valhall]

Yes, couple of (if I remember correctly) ships have been found next to the pyramids in Giza but not underneath the Great Pyramid. Here is a wikipedia link about a ship that was found next to it and is assumed to have belonged to Cheops:

en.wikipedia.org...

You also have to consider, that if thhere was a chhannel, it possibly could not be in existence today. The middle east was much more fertile a long time ago, and the possibility for a channel could have existed, but as it looks now it seems very unlikely thhis channel still exists.

(Sorry it's probably crappy grammar. I've been up for 24 hhours and spent the lsat 10 writing an essay)

Originally posted by Jean Ange
Yes, couple of (if I remember correctly) ships have been found next to the pyramids in Giza but not underneath the Great Pyramid. Here is a wikipedia link about a ship that was found next to it and is assumed to have belonged to Cheops:

en.wikipedia.org...

Weren't the ships symbolic. Egyptian kings were entombed with everything they would supposedly need for their journey to the next world like food, furniture and even their servants. They would also need a boat to make this journey so they were entombed with a boat. Thus a boat that could serve no practical purpose could be included in an Egyptian tomb.

Weren't the ships symbolic. Egyptian kings were entombed with everything they would supposedly need for their journey to the next world like food, furniture and even their servants. They would also need a boat to make this journey so they were entombed with a boat. Thus a boat that could serve no practical purpose could be included in an Egyptian tomb.

This is the same thing that I've always been led to believe through the few books on Ancient Egypt that I've read. But recently, here on ATS I think, I read about a theory that the Egyptians used canal(s) to transport the blocks for the pyramids. Maybe it's the same canal?

What kind of evidence would be needed to prove that there were ancient canals in the area?

Originally posted by zephyrs

What kind of evidence would be needed to prove that there were ancient canals in the area?

a good place to start would be a topo map of the nile valley / giza plateau .

the claimed " canals / chanels " would have to have " flowed " uphill .

it is " possible " that riser locks were used , byt how were they fed ? you would need a reservoir above the lock , or some other source of water to refill the chambers after each cycle .

locks use ALOT of water

so yes, a rational explaination of how a chanel could feed water uphill would be an excellent place to start .

Heroditus did his histories by interview/collecting stories and it's not clear how much time he took to verify his information. His writings were very popular, however, in Greece and many other places.

Since he was writing quite awhile after the pyramid was built, it's possible that this is the local version of "my granddad's granddad built the ships (etc, etc.)". There would also have been translation problems for him ... he didn't speak every language on Earth, and the original tales came from someone who was bilingual (could translate for him).

As others have said, they did find royal barges there (which was actually unexpected.)

Here's more about the solar boats... which were found disassembled:
www.touregypt.net...

Originally posted by Jean AngeI'm quoting this from my book, unfortunately I do not have a link for an online version of The Histories

But I have.

The Internet Sacred Text Archive.

The History of Herodotus. (with paralel text in English and Greek)

The text in question can be found here (just scroll down a bit).

thanks for the link ARMAP , but : How reliable is Herodotus with regard to the pyramids ?

and the pyramid is square, each side measuring eight hundred feet, and the height of it is the same

The reall dimensions are :

Base – 756 feet * 756 feet

Height – 481 feet

It is built of stone smoothed and fitted together in the most perfect manner, not one of the stones being less than thirty feet in length.

30 feet ??????????????

I was reading the Histories last year. I just assumed this was a referrence to a canal build to move the mummy into position when pharaoh's corpse is brought to the pyramid.

Egyptian theology, as seen in tomb art, emphasized the Nile as the source of life. The sun boards a barge in the west at night, and sails through the underworld to its place of rising, at the Eastern horizon. This night-time journey of the sun was symbolic of the Egyptian hope for resurrection, as the sun is raised again every morning.

So, like the sun, the pharoah is pulled through the land of darkness (death) on a barge . . . while he is waiting for his own personal sun to rise, he awaits within the pyramid. The pyramid is "a sunrise in stone," in the words of one well-known anthropologist.

New pharoahs took a ceremonial barge-ride down the nile, and most annual ceremonies involved some form of river travel. King Tut's tomb had model barges, to symbolically provide for Tut's travel into eternity.

The canal in question may have indeed been used to haul stones, and particularly to determine a level foundation for the pyramid. But the main purpose was so that the dead pharaoh could personify the sun in the underworld. By traveling by barge into eternity

.

Wouldn't Herodotus' measurements been in Greek units, and not "feet"? I'd imagine the errors there occur more in the translations....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Wouldn't Herodotus' measurements been in Greek units, and not "feet"? I'd imagine the errors there occur more in the translations....

possibly , but the text claims height = base length , it does not matter what ever units you are using .

Originally posted by zephyrs
But recently, here on ATS I think, I read about a theory that the Egyptians used canal(s) to transport the blocks for the pyramids.

Erm, the pyramid plateau is considerably higher than the Nile. Water doesn't flow uphill.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by zephyrs
But recently, here on ATS I think, I read about a theory that the Egyptians used canal(s) to transport the blocks for the pyramids.

Erm, the pyramid plateau is considerably higher than the Nile. Water doesn't flow uphill.

I was thinking of a small, late (New Kingdom) pyramid built at Abydos (Abju), by Sunursret III. He was much later than the builders of the complex at the "great pyramid." Sunusret had a smaller, cheaper pyramid build, with a brick core. his pyramid has a canal going from the Nile up to his burial complex. But again, this was NOT during the period of classical pyramid construction, but much much later:

Egypt tourism page

Byrd has it right that the Great Pyramid is well above the nile, and at enough distance that a ceremonial causeway was built to connect it down to the Nile.
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