Masons = Racists ?

Nationwide, Masonic groups operate in a separate-but-supposedly-equal system in which whites typically join one network of Masonic groups, called Grand Lodges, and blacks typically join another, called Prince Hall.

But in the South, it goes further: White-controlled Grand Lodges in 12 Southern states do not even officially recognize black Masons as their brothers — the Masonic term is "mutual recognition" — and in some cases, black lodges have taken similar stands.

Source: news.yahoo.com...

Racial segregation? What year is this again?

I hear people on here sometimes defending Masons... let me hear them defend this.

Freemasonry, like every other organization under the sun, reflects the society in which it is placed. It is a fact that there are some strong embedded opinions about race issues here in the South, but these views are not masonic per se, but are held by individuals. There is some self-segregation still happening here - I am looking for a new Church to join at the moment, and the one I went to last week didn't have a single black face in the congregation.

I think to paint the whole thing as racism is simplistic.

Having said all that, the vast majority of the masonic world finds the current situation in the South an embarrassment, but there is relatively little that can be done about it at a Grand Lodge level as every GL is entirely independent of every other. If you visit some of the main (US) masonic discussion groups you will see that this particular issue, above all others, is the major talking point.

FYI the United States is the only country in the world where freemasonry has developed in this way - out of the general racism of the 18th and 19th centuries. Now there are two strands of freemasonry, each quite regular, and each with a rich history which they are reluctant to give up through mergers (which is the obvious conclusion to all this).

I seriously dont get it, the KKK were a masonic organisation and we all knew where they stood regarding race. Masons live in far to much secrecy so its almost impossible to see there intentions.

So? I mean, they are separate organizations that do not adhere to the same principles. I don't necessarily see anything racist about it at all. I love the way anti-Masons are beginning to grasp at straws now that their "case" is beginning to fall in around them, though.

[edit on 23-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Touchy subjet here. Let's keep it on an even keel folks.

Originally posted by intrepid
Touchy subjet here. Let's keep it on an even keel folks.

And perhaps a conspiratorial angle? Or is ATS just for general mason-bashing now...?

Originally posted by Trinityman

And perhaps a conspiratorial angle? Or is ATS just for general mason-bashing now...?

As a society with secrets I think the Masons are fair game in a forum for secret societies. The charges themselves may be paranoia or ignorance, but that doesn't mean they can't be discussed. This is an excellant opportunity to shed light on the matter so others may come to understand.

Just my thoughts on it.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by intrepid
Touchy subjet here. Let's keep it on an even keel folks.

And perhaps a conspiratorial angle? Or is ATS just for general mason-bashing now...?

Check my posts in this forum, I keep an even keel here and take your words personally. Maybe you would have known that if your words had been from your mouth to my ear.

As pissed as I am at being labelled a staff member that dotes to some members and not other, I am not adverse to accepting an apology.

Originally posted by estar
I seriously dont get it,

That's pretty apparent from the following uninformed statement

the KKK were a masonic organisation

WOW! Care to give some...uhm...I don't know....uhm...errr...

DOCUMENTATION to back that up? Or should we take that at face value? ('cause it "ain't" worth much, ya know?)

Masons live in far to much secrecy so its almost impossible to see there intentions.

Or "their" intentions, either...[sigh] I am a Mason and a darned proud one. I'm also Caucasian and some of my dearest friends are non-Caucasian AND they are Masons.

Let's have some facts here. I'm ready for them! It's been TOO long. Silly garbage like YOU posted has to GO!

Waiting patiently.....

By the way, it's not all segregated in the south. I live in Arkansas and while in college one of my teachers was full blood Cherokee and he wore his masonic belt buckle like a badge of honor.

Just thoughti'd toss that in the pot with the rest of the stew...

Originally posted by Appak
I am a Mason and a darned proud one. I'm also Caucasian and some of my dearest friends are non-Caucasian AND they are Masons.

Thank you for posting this Appak... I had only heard one side of the story (the news report) and am glad to hear the other side of the story.

Is your lodge racially intergrated?

Originally posted by estar
the KKK were a masonic organisation

Please post your source for this bit of information.

As both a mason and a southerner I disagree with my Grand Lodge not recognising the North Carolina Prince Hall Lodge structure. We are in the process of trying to get it passed to recognise Prince Hall.

I have several friends (both good men and fine friends) of color who are masons,while we cannot recognise each other as brothers there is nothing stopping us from treating each other as brothers and we do so. We are prevented from discusing "the secrets of masonry" with each other by both of our oaths. This is true in both directions, at this time neither lodge structure recognises the other as regular masons, and each considers the other clandestine.

As to being segrigated, I personaly know that there are several regular masons in N.C. of aftican-american decent in my immediate area. Though it is generaly true that the majority of afican-americans are in the Prince Hall lLodge it is not required. Nor is there a line on our application for "race".


Intrepid, I for one appriciate your efforts to "keep an even keel". While I don't post often I try and read most of the treads on a daily basis and feel your efforts are succesful.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by intrepid
Touchy subjet here. Let's keep it on an even keel folks.

And perhaps a conspiratorial angle? Or is ATS just for general mason-bashing now...?

Check my posts in this forum, I keep an even keel here and take your words personally. Maybe you would have known that if your words had been from your mouth to my ear.

As pissed as I am at being labelled a staff member that dotes to some members and not other, I am not adverse to accepting an apology.

Sorry.

I wasn't getting at you at all Intrepid, in fact you do a great job. I should have put a smiley on that one.

As stated by everyone else here.. it is an unfortunate blemish on the white apron of freemasonry that the prince hall masons are still in the "seperate but equal" catagory.

But consider this, as also stated many times on this forum, the masons as a whole, be they in one jurisdiction, or worldwide, do not always agree on matters, and the views of the few do not account for the spirit of the many.

Further you should be aware, that the masons founded the prince hall in america, and before slavery had even been abolished.. and was the first of any civic group, be they a secret society or otherwise to accept blacks amung them. Yes they were formed as a so-called seperate but equal entity, and yes it was to appease the minds of early american racists.. but does not their very formation and acceptance into the craft at all speak to the desire and willingness of some white masons to take that first step to equality?

I think all of you masons here who disagree with the continued seperation of the two bodies should push for unity as one order, and for those of you that dont.. maybe you should go back and rethink your understanding about the masonic ideals of freedom, liberty, charity and brotherly love

[edit on 23-10-2006 by Becon of Light]

Also, just to point this out, "mainstream" Masonry is not whites only, and Prince Hall Masonry is not blacks only. There are black members of mainstream Masonry and white members of Prince Hall. The recognition factor has to do with geographical jurisdiction, not racism.

Also, of course, the Ku Klux Klan has never had anything to do with Freemasonry; in fact, the KKK, being a part of the Christian Identity movement, is very much anti-Masonic.

seriously dont get it, the KKK were a masonic organisation and we all knew where they stood regarding race. Masons live in far to much secrecy so its almost impossible to see there intentions.

firstly the KKK as founded by Nathan Bedford Forrest ( Im not even sure as to his Masonic status) was disbanded in as i recall 1868.

The organization which exists today under the name of the KKK does not now nor did
it ever have ( with the exception of possible crossover membership) anything to do
with the KKK of Gen.Forrest or Albert Pike who's membership in the pre 68 KKK has never to my knowledge been definativly proved.

As pissed as I am at being labelled a staff member that dotes to some members and not other, I am not adverse to accepting an apology.

Yeah , right, ok,ID use the "bow down" smiley here but it doesnt seem to be available. anything you and TC say.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

As pissed as I am at being labelled a staff member that dotes to some members and not other, I am not adverse to accepting an apology.

Yeah , right, ok,ID use the "bow down" smiley here but it doesnt seem to be available. anything you and TC say.

Just move the ":" in : hail :

Well mate, I've seen how you can get your ass in the air when someone says something that you consider to be malicious against Masonry, now you post this? Double standard?

BTW, why did you even go here when it was addressed to another member and we are WAY past it?

BTW Trinityman, thanks, it's all good.

Originally posted by craig732
Racial segregation? What year is this again?

A regular masonic lodge that rejected an applicant because he was black would probably be sanctioned and perhaps dissolved, if it was constant enough. Rejecting people because of the relative melanin concentration of their epidermis is fantastically against the ideals of masonry.
Its certainly happened, and it was permited, especially in the past, because people simply didn't live up to the ideals that they were preaching, and because people in general were extremely racist.

It was because the american Masonic lodges were full of americans, who were, by and large, extremely racist at the time, that they were not permited ot join. THus, the blacks in the US appealed, I beleive, to an english lodge or authority to establish their own lodges, parrallel to the american ones, and this is now the "Prince Hall" system.

That continues today probably for a lot of reasons, such as tradition and history. But it becomes unacceptably racist if a black man applies to a nominally white lodge and is rejected because he is black.
BUT the mere existence of Prince Hall lodges, and the tendency of blacks to apply to them and whites to apply to regular lodges, isn't unacceptably racist. There are lots of bars that are largely frequented by blacks, and others by whites. Thats not really all that racist. If they threw out blacks or whites from their bars, then that'd be racist.

As far as the regular lodges not recognizing the Prince Hall lodges as 'regular', there are issues of bylaw and 'legality' that influence that, although I am sure that there are racists in both camps that simply don't care about the legitimate blocks and merely are concerned with their racist illegitimate blocks.



Long story short, it sure as heck isn't as cut and dry as 'black and white mason's are evil racists'.

the gentleman who said that white masons have grand lodges and black masons have prince hall is so wrong.i,m myself am a black mason and i do not belong to prince hall.i,m memmber of the general grand masonic congress which hold charters in 19 states