Spiritual comman ancestor??

Science and evolution seem to evidence that mankind came from a common ancestor of apes etc.

Now as I understand it, the corporeal shell that we call man (or woman) is merely a displacement in this dimension.
and our bodies nothing more than an organic machine, a vehicle for our spirit selves.

With the assumption that both the previous points are accepted, when in our evolution did spirit "invade" our shells? Were our ancestors like Lucy
sentient and aware spiritually?

The way I see it there must have been a point where a change occurred, because if you keep going back far enough then all life would have a spiritual common ancestor.

Any thoughts people.

I am really not sure about this one but its a good question.

Maybe it was Jesus? (Messiah)

[edit on 23-10-2006 by Cerkit Breaker]

It started as a thought manifested from the creative will of our creator... is what I know.

AAC

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
It started as a thought manifested from the creative will of our creator... is what I know.

AAC

WTF!!

What started as a thought. Spirit, the ape, man, the common ancestor?

Originally posted by Il Papa
Science and evolution seem to evidence that mankind came from a common ancestor of apes etc.

Now as I understand it, the corporeal shell that we call man (or woman) is merely a displacement in this dimension.
and our bodies nothing more than an organic machine, a vehicle for our spirit selves.

With the assumption that both the previous points are accepted, when in our evolution did spirit "invade" our shells? Were our ancestors like Lucy
sentient and aware spiritually?

The way I see it there must have been a point where a change occurred, because if you keep going back far enough then all life would have a spiritual common ancestor.

Any thoughts people.

Good question and Idea for a Thread, Il Papa

I think we have a question that invites conjecture or the hypothetical case.

IMHO-- I feel that, yes, there was a "common spiritual ancestor" somewhere in the dim beginnings of Human Intelligence. I say this because it is Intelligence that begets Awareness of both the Self and reasoning about the World outside the immediate self. Being native American, I am well schooled in our own Oral Traditions, and the story-sets dealing with our Spiritual Traditions are very ancient.

"Lucy", I believe, is an Australopithicine---and "intelligent" ape. Archeologically, I think you will likely find evidence for that point in time --whatever it is-- close to the time men began to use Red Ochre and funerary furniture in burials of the dead. This practice denotes the use of Ceremonial Rites, and the reason for the beginning of that practice (almost) has to be Spiritually based.

It would be worthy and interesting research project to gather the data on ancient burials and see if a source point and source "culture" can be found, and if the data can be dated or has been.

Anyway, good topic

Ed LIttlefox,

That's nice thinking. The use of ochre and funerary rites. Yea that must be at the boundary of spiritual sentience.

At some point, maybe Lucy maybe not, our ancestors became aware or had a concept of life and death, they mourned loss and looked towards the possibility of an afterlife. But did our evolving senscience create the illusion of spirit, or create spirit as a kind none physical existence, in the way a thought is kind of real but not real?

Or do spirits just wait around for a corporeal being to inhabit, like waiting for a go on a Roller-coaster ride?

Evolution does not disprove creationism. Here is why....

The bible says that man was made in God's image... Most think that man was physically made in God's image. However,I don't think that is what is implied in the bible. I think that man was spiritually made in God's image. Our spirit is the same manifestation as God. What is God? Well, the bible pretty explicitly states that God is light; therefore, our spirit is also made of light.

You may be wondering,"So what is your answer to the question?" My answer is that the spirit has always been there. It doesn't matter if we started out as an ape or an amoeba;there has always been a spirit.

[edit on 1-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 1-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 1-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Since always.

The real question would be when we really started to think as rational beings instead of just follow our primal instincts.

Well,tunin... It's known that even the neanderthals had some since of self or all-pervading spirit.. There have actually been drawings and such found in caves that seem to indicate that even neanderthals had some spiritual practices.

I would assume that a sense of self or spiritualness probably dawned with the neanderthals,but that is just an assumption.

I have went on the net searching for some information about this and there is really nothing available. I have read a couple of books that seem to link the first spirtual instincts with neanderthal man, but...


[edit on 1-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Spekeroftruth.

You start of by saying that evolution does not disprove creationism, then support it with an opinion "I think".

I believe Creationism is bunk as is Intelligent Design, (if man were created by an intelligent entity why give the male species unusable nipples?).

This is not however a discussion of god, whatever that is.

You say there has always been a spirit. What in everything? Would that make all living things divine by your abrahmic god standards?

Tunin:
Have we started thinking rationally? I would hate to think of many of mankind's activities were rational. As for primal instincts we as a species are still trapped by them, I believe.

Earlier protoman species seem rare in evidence and it could be any artistic endeavours indicating senscience have not survived.

Could it be that spirit (whatever that is) is in all living things, its just that man has evolved communication to exchange ideas and found beliefs? By communicating in pictures and in language we are able to let others know what we think, beyond threatening away adverseries and mate rivals. It could be that other species have those thoughts of why am I here, what happens when I die but are unable to pass those thoughts on.

Originally posted by Il Papa
Spekeroftruth.

You start of by saying that evolution does not disprove creationism, then support it with an opinion "I think".

I believe Creationism is bunk as is Intelligent Design, (if man were created by an intelligent entity why give the male species unusable nipples?).

This is not however a discussion of god, whatever that is.

You say there has always been a spirit. What in everything? Would that make all living things divine by your abrahmic god standards?

You can believe whatever you want. Science is riddled with "I think" ideologies, Papa. In my opinion, the theory of evolution is little more than a "I think" ideology. So where do you get off debasing my "I think" argument?

Secondly, how do you know what God I worship? Who said that I was an orthodox Christian? I certainly never have claimed to be that. I "think" that before you try and berate someone's opinion, you should analyze what it is you profess to be true and realize, that 9 times out of 10, it is an "I think" ideology. Good day,sir.


By the way,the god of Abraham was a blood god... I worship the God of Jesus Christ.
[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Il Papa
...if man were created by an intelligent entity why give the male species unusable nipples?...

An Ascended Being started the Universe but not humankind. Homo sapien life was jumpstarted by an advanced group of space-aliens from the Zeta 2 Reticuli System. They made many mistakes along the way. According to Bob Lazar, the human body has been tampered with at least 65 times. Even with that, there are various mistakes that have been made and/or not corrected in the first place.

For example, gorillas and monkeys never have to trim their nails or cut their hair. It grows to a certain length and then stops. Not so with Homo sapiens.

Zecharia Sitchin's archeological findings point to the first Homo sapiens not being able to reproduce. The Anunnaki (who were probably Zetan-Reptilian) eventually amended that problem.

It is not cost effective to have slaves that can't have more slaves.

Spirit, or rather most of it, began descending into the flesh as soon as it was possible to do so. When the first hominids eventually started to emerge as a result of a slow and gradual telekinetic tampering from large Group Entities on various animal species, the more intelligent souls chose humanoid embodiment. In this galaxy, the first ones to do that was not the Mammalians like us, but the Reptilians and the Insectians (Preying Mantises).

As the brain size increased, there was a greater potential for the cultivation of intellectual development in the body. In turn, this provided a greater opportunity for the cultivation of self-awareness, the basics of communication, and emotional expression.

Hypnotic regression research has found that there are people that long ago did indeed have one or more lifetimes as animals. One case I recall is someone being regressed hypnotically back to having been a pampered palace cat - of the large variety - in ancient Egypt.

Were hominids like "Lucy" sentient?

Absolutely.

Any creature that portrays emotion is sentient, and present-day gorillas and monkeys are as well.

Were hominds spiritually aware?

I don't even think that most Homo sapiens are spiritually aware.



[edit on 3-11-2006 by Paul_Richard]

I don't even think that most Homo sapiens are spiritually aware.

Paul, neither do I. Neither do I.

if man were created by an intelligent entity why give the male species unusable nipples?).

I think the reverse of that question can be asked also. Why would man evolve with unusable nipples?
I think creation and evolution need to be looked at from the perspective of the universe was created with the big bang....now who or what caused the big bang? I think it was God or the creator or whatever you want to call it. Then after the big bang evolution took hold at a certain point. In other words evolution was part of Gods creation.

the Spiritual Common Ancestor of all humans (& theoretically also the Neanderthals) was and still is:
NATURE

Pagans still are aware of Nature, mother nature, as the originator of spiritual consciousness in the human animal....

the awe of the world around us, the cycles of day-night & seasons, the canopy of stars, birth-death, the good works of some & the evil doings of some, all were thought provoking events which became expressed in spirituality, art, etcetera....

at least that's my considered guess

Nice question. Spiritual common ancestor

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

By the way,the god of Abraham was a blood god... I worship the God of Jesus Christ.
[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Look chummy your book of jesus includes the books of the abraham god. christians, muslims and jews have the same god dont they? Was jesus a jew?
Christians claim to worship the god of jesus while actually worshipping a dead bloke on a cross. You owe your religion to the romans and jews. If they had not done for him YOU would have no-one to worship.

As far as the common spiritual ancestor, we dont have all the evidence for mankinds lineage and we will never know how aware he has been in the past.
I personally believe that the belief of its existence (spirit) creates its existence...it needs our belief as much as we do.

Originally posted by something smells
Look chummy your book of jesus includes the books of the abraham god. christians, muslims and jews have the same god dont they? Was jesus a jew?
Christians claim to worship the god of jesus while actually worshipping a dead bloke on a cross. You owe your religion to the romans and jews. If they had not done for him YOU would have no-one to worship.

Again,who do you think I worship? Do you think my God actually has a name? If you do, then you are seriously mistaken. I am not an orthodox Christian...Thanks for your time..... "Chummy"..

[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Speakeroftruth:

Firstly:

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Secondly, how do you know what God I worship?
[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Then:

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
By the way,the god of Abraham was a blood god... I worship the God of Jesus Christ.
[edit on 3-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Sir I am vindicated, thank you. Please do not turn this into a christian religion discussion the thread will get moved and I don't like novels anyhow

I was amused that the mere use of evolved in a generic sense brought out an attack on Darwin's theory. You sir have more problems than I.

If there were a god I would hope he is not as highly strung and easy to rise as you. I would hope for a more forgiving chap. But looking at the history of the jesus faith and the evil done in his name you are the best ambassador one could hope for, thank you...

Orthodox christian or not there is more truth in Harry Potter than "The Book" (including the jewish bit, with the abrahamic blood god, father of christ).

Originally posted by Paul_RichardWere hominds spiritually aware?

I don't even think that most Homo sapiens are spiritually aware.

Absolutely. I read your post with interest. The manipulation of man in the past mmm. There are many a hypothesis out there explaining away the mystery of mankind. The aquatic ape theory (AAT) seems to answer some. If we were created as a slave race would we not be made more controllable and less aggressive?

I think you have a point regarding brain size and awareness. AAT would put it down to eating more fish I assume you propose it is some third party manipulation.
I think / believe that the larger brain has allowed us to invent many things including perhaps god and the concept of spirit.

Obviously mankind has a great creative mind fueled with imagination. We have achieved a lot good, bad and just plain evil. As I age I do wonder if the thoughts of man are really mans thoughts or just the cosmos using man as an interface?
We do have the ability to imagine anything...that's what ATS is all about IMHO.

I have had experiences that were in the spiritual, para-science field. I now am on a journey to discover if what I / we experience is really an other worldly thing or just my mind. I know how powerful the mind is.

Originally posted by etshrtslr

I think creation and evolution need to be looked at from the perspective of the universe was created with the big bang....now who or what caused the big bang? I think it was God or the creator or whatever you want to call it. Then after the big bang evolution took hold at a certain point. In other words evolution was part of Gods creation.

Interesting notion. One could accept evolution as part of gods work I suppose.
Quite amusing to think that even if everyone accepted evolution there would be the question of the big bang...well if there were a big bang.

Regarding nipples. I believe they are there as we are all of woman. But the male doesn't need functioning breasts so has nipples only (if you don't use lose it...Darwinian). It is possible that we may evolve with no nipples at all, who knows? I believe a creator would either blueprint man with no nipples (what intelligent designer would build in something not needed?) or with working breasts to allow shared parenting.

Originally posted by St Udio

the Spiritual Common Ancestor of all humans (& theoretically also the Neanderthals) was and still is:
NATURE

Nice.....but where did nature begin? I suppose it depends on your definition.
Was it there when the planet cooled and became the earth? Was it there at the big bang? Did it instigate the big bang? Is nature the cosmological consciousness?

Il Papa,

You have the unique stance of accepting that there are higher dimensions of Spirit while at the same time are agnostic.

I can relate to that, as I was the same way.

I have come to know that there is no God in the Judeo-Christian sense, but there is a Higher Power, what many refer to as The Light. It is infinite, nonliving, and governed by Universal Law which cannot be changed. The more spiritually advanced the soul, the greater its ability to Ascend into The Light after death.

Originally posted by Il Papa
If we were created as a slave race would we not be made more controllable and less aggressive?

It may not seem like it, but the aliens are just as aggressive. They just go about expressing that aggression more subtly than many do here.

There are indications that Atlantis did not end from a "normal geological occurrence" but from being on the losing end of a nuclear war with the Anunnaki.

So yeah...the aliens have no trouble expressing their aggression.

Further, the personality stems from the soul, not the brain. That is why it is impossible to completely control someone without making him a virtual vegetable through brainwashing and drugs.