Are survivalists as rife in the UK?

You can't help noticing recently the emergance of many threads on the subject of survival here on ATS. Mind if i ask a few questions on this?

From what i can make out, the majority of the people actively participating in these threads are from the US. Why is this? Where are the UK members on this issue and why are'nt they starting survival thread after survival thread?

I rarely hear about survivalist groups or the likes here in the UK, but some of the threads i read on here from our US members, such as outlining the virtual armoury they have stashed away "just incase", are commonplace.

How long has this been the norm in the US? How much is sensible preparation and how much would you say is paranoia or slight overkill? Do you feel your country is in that bad a way that you have to learn to survive in the most deadliest way before it's too late?

I know there are different levels to this. Some people are just ready for an emergency such as floods or whatever nature throws at them, then there are the more extreme sides to this. Don't get me wrong, i think it's great to prepare, as i was always taught, remember the 7 P's.....prior planning and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

I just wonder sometimes about the stockpiles of ammo people talk about, the mass of weaponry stored, knives bigger than Rambo's (jeeez he has a lot to answer for!), the need for tactical gear and people talking as though they're on constant standby for a black ops mission. Do you honestly believe all this is really neccessary?

Maybe us Brits are too laid back and underprepared, what do you think? I certainly don't envisage having to fight for my life and having to survive off of the land any time soon here in the UK, but who knows....maybe that will be my downfall one day?

I'm not just finger pointing at americans here, it's just they make up a large majority of the people i am referring to. Maybe other countries are similar in this way?

What is it that makes you prepare as much as you do? Seriously, i'm not talking about general readyness for floods and storms etc, i mean the more extreme survival readyness, comms, weapons, stealth bows etc? Do you really think you'll be using all that in your life time?

Thanks for listening, i don't want this to sound negative towards survivalists or anything, i think it's great to learn some of these skills and i enjoy participating in these threads. Just interested in your views thats all.

CX.

To be honest, I think it's because Brits are more laid back than our American cousins. I've found that Americans in general are much more paranoid than the rest of the world, which I think makes sense, them being the 'most hated power on the planet'.

Survivalism, in the UK is different than in the US, we have limited access to firearms, so we don't really bother. If the worst comes to the worst, we're a hardy lot, we'd be just fine. Another things that pops to mind is that survivalists over the pond have guns, all of them. This means that there all probably fight with each other to survive. If one has a gun, they all need them.

Hadn't really thought about it much in context to the UK. I count myself as a lightly armed Canadian survivalist since the late 1980's. Others with whom I've chatted and read of here in North America seem to have a plan to "leave" and "go" somewhere "else"... quite frequently North. I think it may be a geographic and cultural "thing" that might generate the Trans-Atlantic differences in emphasis.

The UK will not have such luxurious "space" considerations as that of North America. Depending on the type of event this lack of the ability to "leave" will make whatever occurs all the more sociologically dire and close to the bone.

The UK is pretty crowded and the US isn't exactly "undeveloped" either having grown past 300 million to little fanfare this week...

I've been trying to find the Churchill quote about being "drawn inexhorablely towards an ominous fate, we know not what"... seems appropriate for the times... a great many see and feel "it" coming... just not quite sure how to qualify and quantify what "it" is though.

Victor K.

43'

Originally posted by V Kaminski
The UK will not have such luxurious "space" considerations as that of North America. Depending on the type of event this lack of the ability to "leave" will make whatever occurs all the more sociologically dire and close to the bone.

I agree.. survival would more likely be along "tribal" lines. Community defense, rebuilding etc.. there'd be a LOT of violence along racial and regional lines, but the UK is small enough very quickly alliances would form and some form of new government would form... It's hard to imagine what situation, short of all out nuclear war, would destabilise the country to this extent though. Social networks are much stronger given the Britain's history and size.

I've been trying to find the Churchill quote about being "drawn inexhorablely towards an ominous fate, we know not what"... seems appropriate for the times... a great many see and feel "it" coming... just not quite sure how to qualify and quantify what "it" is though.

Not a quote as such, but Churchill did mention this poem in his memoir..

"Who's in charge of the clattering train?
The axles creak and the couplings strain
And the pace is hot and the points are near
And Sleep has deadened the driver's ear
And the signals flash through the night in vain
For Death is in charge of the clattering train"

-Anon



[edit on 21-10-2006 by nowthenlookhere]

Speaking as a Proud American I can say you are right. I to had noticed that. I am also involved in survival. It comes in my opinion from a lot of different things.

1: As Americans we know that nothing last forever, but should the end come in our time we don't want to and are not going to give up our freedoms. We will not bow to foreign governments even thow our Present government is extremely corrupt, they are still ours.

2:Being one of the newest nations we kinda act like the proverbial junk yard dog. If you throw the biggest puppy a bone he will run and hide it so nobody can take it from him, and then go back to it latter. Same thing with our stash of supplies.

3: If you look at the history of America, it was survivalist who helped win this nations freedom. We are born and bread to be fiercely independent, and survive at all cost.

Ime sure there are more reasons but those are just the ones that pooped into my demented little brain . Remember this no matter ware you live it never hurts to be prepared.

In short the answere to CX is survivalist rife in the UK...NO!
and to be honest that will be our downfall..god forbid...should anything like Sit X happens.

The thing is with the USA you seem to have a lot more to deal with...like storms, hurricans and the like, so people in general do prepare for such natural disasters and you prepare from what i have seen and read ..very well!!

With the UK we are not too laid back...i just think we are too lazy, we shut our doors and think the world is rosey outside...well it isnt!!!
Things and society in general is changing, people may not want to believe it but im sorry to say it is!!

We do have to prepare for certain things that happen, you only have to look back when the UK was hit by a major hurricane, although people got through it , it caused major upset and distruption to everything.

There is nothing wrong in being prepared, even the simplest of kits, just maybe to tie you over for a few days would be a start.

Although, here in the Uk we havent got the gun laws that are in the USA but we still have guns available to criminals and when (god forbid) something happened and you had gun totting criminals running around the streets (i know its all a bit Mad Max) but who would defend your family then?

Would the food shops be robbed (seen when katrina hit) would it be a case of who's got the biggest gun?

IMHO i think we should all have a little saftey net stashed somewhere around the home, because believe me money aint gonna be worth jak***.

The Uk is im sorry to say totaly unprepared for ANYTHING, that includes weather
I know ive posted worst case scenario but....sit X is that!!

In the event of the world turning upside down, I think most folk in the UK will dig trenches behind their privet hedges and be prepared to fight off invaders with shake of the fist and a harsh letter to The Times...failing that, Capt. Mannering and his brave brigade will restore order and justice from GCHQ at Walmington-on-Sea

...as long as we have tea, we will prevail!!

Cpl. Jones..out...SAH!

Oh Timski how right you are!

That really made me chuckle being a Brit myself. However whilst pre-disaster Brits may behave like that, being terribly polite, standing in queues for hours etc., I don't think they will be like that afterwards.

I lived on the South Downs in Kent for many years and can well remember my father digging us out following heavy snow falls and drifting.

Living in the same area as an adult in the 80's we were totally cut off for a week because of snow and again following the hurricane. I always keep my cupboards well stocked up so it was no problem for me. However, the local shops were completely stripped within hours, to the point where there was not even baby milk left in the shops - yes people without babies were buying it for themselves!

I now live tucked under the South Downs, so very protected from any nasty weather. My biggest worry is the possibility of an avian flu pandemic. I suspect if that starts to spread, once again the shops will be stripped within hours so I think it makes sense to have a store of food. I also think you have to plan for loss of power and water supplies, so having water butts and knowing how to purify water is a good idea, as is stocking up on gas bottles/fires, charcoal logs etc. I also think you have to consider the security of your home because if people can't get food/water they will turn nasty, and even if they don't have guns they will use whatever they can to break in and loot.

Some good points there Mayacara

I've just come back to this thread after a little while away from it and i have to say that my opinions have changed somewhat on the whole survivalist thing.

I find it a fascinating subject and due to my military experience i've learned a few things about survival too, yet it's something that i never really bothered about since leaving the army.

I have started getting myself a little more organised now, nothing major or too extreme, but enough not to regret it later.

My kids spend half thier lives deep in the woods with me having fun around the rivers and stuff making shelters for fun, so i'm teaching them a bit more indepth stuff to help them keep warm and dry if they were ever to get stranded out there. They are both real interested in maps and i'm teaching them how to use a map and compass to get them to safety.

They will know how to use everything in my survival kit if neccessary but everything i teach them will be geared around a fun activity. They are still only young so i'm not about to start freaking them out by saying the NWO are around the corner, but i'm starting to introduce them to the more practical uses of bushcraft.

Thanks to all who have participated in this thread, as well as all the other survivalist threads too. It has given me much food for thought as well as tips for the future.

CX.

Originally posted by CX

From what i can make out, the majority of the people actively participating in these threads are from the US. Why is this? Where are the UK members on this issue and why are'nt they starting survival thread after survival thread?

Good afternoon, CX. My answer to this question is that there are in fact more American 'survivalists' than there are British. This is due, as I understand it, to their harsher environmental conditions and their history of survival dating back to the Mountain Men and such like. Britain has lost a lot of it's survival knowledge and intuition amongst its general population because we were encouraged or outright herded into Cities and large population centers’ long before people left here to form Colonies in The New World. This age old programme continues in Britain to this day. Make your people reliant on your system--your vast, intricate Cities--your food and water supplies (provided for an ever increasing price), and they will fight to the death to protect it, should it ever be threatened. America was different. Another reason that there are more American survivalists posting survival material might be that there are simply more Americans than there are British posting on this board.

Originally posted by CX
I rarely hear about survivalist groups or the likes here in the UK, but some of the threads i read on here from our US members, such as outlining the virtual armoury they have stashed away "just incase", are commonplace.

It's a Constitutional right to bare Arms in the United States, it isn't here. If you own a Rifle in this country, or want to own a Rifle, people often think of you as some kind of weird, dangerous man. Worse still, today they might think you're a Terrorist and call SO-19 on you. We're fast becoming a Nation of over-polluted wimps, and most of the tough Bastards are all too busy drinking, watching pointless, played-out ball games, and fighting with each other to get a #ing clue and fight a real fight--the only fight that matters.

There are actually still survivalist 'groups' left in this country, like the Ray Mears crowd, for example. If you take a look at his website his survival courses are fully booked all year round, so there must still be people arriving at the realization that they need to know these skills, and know them well.

Originally posted by CX
How long has this been the norm in the US? How much is sensible preparation and how much would you say is paranoia or slight overkill? Do you feel your country is in that bad a way that you have to learn to survive in the most deadliest way before it's too late?

It's been the norm there ever since they were fighting off our Tyrannical snatchgrabs Centuries ago. Again, it's a Constitutional right to bare arms in the United States of America, if you want to better understand why Americans have guns, read the Constitution.

Originally posted by CX
I just wonder sometimes about the stockpiles of ammo people talk about, the mass of weaponry stored, knives bigger than Rambo's (jeeez he has a lot to answer for!), the need for tactical gear and people talking as though they're on constant standby for a black ops mission. Do you honestly believe all this is really neccessary?

I think you're blowing things slightly out of proportion. You can't pick the most extreme cases and apply them to millions of others.

Originally posted by CX
Maybe us Brits are too laid back and underprepared, what do you think? I certainly don't envisage having to fight for my life and having to survive off of the land any time soon here in the UK, but who knows....maybe that will be my downfall one day?

We're laid back and underprepared, but we're also ignorant and blind to a system that's sucking each and every one of us dry, and polluting the lands. Your comments here are a prime example of what I mentioned earlier about how a population reliant on an artificial system will fight to defend it, should it be threatened. You are confused, my friend. You should be destroying the system and living off the land, not destroying the land and living off the system.

Well, that's... Urm... That's my Two Pence.

Yes.

Good day.

No its not prevalent here because we don't have a government that is nearly as bad as the American one.

If there are any, they are viewed as paranoid freaks and weirdos.

Flyer mate,
Dont really think i would agree with you there mate?
You state:
"we dont have a government that is nearly as bad as the USA"?

we have one thats twice as bad!

We have a government that jumps into other counries business when it suits them ! if there is profit there they our govenment will get involved!

Whilst as ive said before the survivalists are more prominent in the USA than here, its because we are lazy , we do think that the world revolves around us, nothing bad is gonna happen to us, and the we are loved by everyone ..haha!

You are right in saying that those who do prepare are recognised as freaks and weirdos, i must say, but it will be those freaks and weirdos that we will be looking for , for help when the s**t hits the fan!

Plan now , while you still have a chance!

I have been through earthquakes, hurricanes, riots, looting, martial law, and various other significant events. I am prepared to survive on my own for a relatively long time period; I don't have an underground shelter, I won't divulge my arsenal, I do have emergency medical training (as well as run of the mill medical training), and should it come to that, I have no doubt I could live off the land for a time. I have extra preps (food) for those family members who are not (and will not be) prepared, as natural disasters have taught me they won't.

Why? Because I've been there, done that, and know what it takes to come out the other end relatively intact. Am I "paranoid"? Some might say so. Others would say I'm utterly unprepared. Whatever their thoughts, I feel better knowing that should the SHTF (again), I would be ready to face what comes.

As another poster indicated, Americans are a stubborn lot, and we tend to not give up/in easily. Because of that, the tendency to watch out for ourselves may be a little more pronounced than in other countries.

OTOH, I know several people in Europe who are far more prepared than I...so perhaps it's simply that we talk about it more than do other cultures. We do have big mouths, ala the "loud americans", right? LOL!

I'd say be prepared for 2 weeks without any amenities - no electricity (so no refridgeration, lights, auto garage door openers...), no water (no showers, no potties, no water for cooking), and no travel (martial law: no travel will be allowed, ala the '92 riots in Los Angeles, curfews, et cetera). Can you survive that without any help? If so, I'd say you'll be all right. If not, then I'd suggest a little thought go into your own responsibilities to yourself and your family (including pets and family members who don't live with you but live near), and less dependency on a government agency to get you out of hell should hell in fact appear. And 2 weeks is speaking from experience.

Regards-
Aimless

We do have alot of militias, survivalists, and other militant groups here in the US, but I think we have always prepared for a day when they would be needed.

The founding fathers realized, after the war with england, that corrupt governments should be overthrown and the citizens of the nation should have the means to accomplish this.

Originally posted by spymaster
You are right in saying that those who do prepare are recognised as freaks and weirdos, i must say, but it will be those freaks and weirdos that we will be looking for , for help when the s**t hits the fan!

Plan now , while you still have a chance!

You think the # is going to hit the fan, I think anyone who thinks that is totally paranoid which is why they feel the need to have a stock of guns and food to make them feel safe.

You think the # is going to hit the fan, I think anyone who thinks that is totally paranoid which is why they feel the need to have a stock of guns and food to make them feel safe.

I don't rely on guns and food to make me feel safe; however, having been there, done that (and it seems unlikely that you have, if you can't see the need for preparations for 2 weeks on your own...), I want to be able to make it through the crud and see that my family does, as well.

That's not really paranoid, when you consider what happened in the '94 quake in Northridge; or Hurricane Katrina; or even last week when the storms in the northern US killed at least 5 who were not prepared (two men died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning, simply because they didn't know the danger...).

Knowing the dangers around you, and preparing for them to occur and for you to survive them, isn't paranoid. It's practical. It becomes paranoid when people stock up 2 years of MREs, sell everything and move to Nepal, et cetera...but two weeks - or even 2 months - of preps isn't paranoid...it's simply common sense and a knowledge that reliance on outside help just might not come - or not come for a while (i.e. Northridge and/or Katrina). I don't want to rely on a government to survive...I'd rather it be my own responsibility and thus under my own control.

When "prepping" runs someone's life it might be overkill. When it's done, and then forgotten about until the time is needed? That's sensible.

Regards-
Aimless

Since shortly after WWII we Americans have had a succession of groups that were bent on our destruction. First it was the USSR and now the terrorists and their supporting countries. They've vowed to bring destruction to us. Meanwhile, our government has shown that it is either incapable or unwilling to help in a crisis (Katrina). So, many of us feel we need to be able to take care of ourselves.

Being prepared for disaster does not necessarily mean having guns. It is only prudent to plan and prepare for coping with difficult situations. For example, in the case of a bird flu pandemic, it is advised to have THREE MONTHS worth of supplies. While that may seem like a ridiculous amount, it in fact is just basic common sense. With such a pandemic, you would not be able to get out to the stores. Store employees would not be able to restock shelves. Travel would be prohibited as a quarantine would be in effect. Supply lines would be weakened at the very least. Governments across the globe have demonstrated an incapability of dealing with such "disasters" on a major scale and they wouldn't be of much help to the average citizen. Hospitals would be overwhelmed and short on staff. The advice to stock up on three months supplies was put forth by government planning boards and yet I bet the majority of families have done no such thing.

This is just one example and there are several other possibilities. Not that I believe a pandemic is about to happen nor am I paranoid about NWO, Alien take overs or many of the various imminent disasters about to fall upon mankind that have been discussed here on ATS. Being a rational being, who enjoys life and intends to keep living, I do however believe in being prepared. Having the proper skills, experience and supplies can make all the difference. I know people in Germany, Switzerland, Italy, and yes even the UK who have taken the needed steps to prepare for various scenarios.

First off..to Flyer....you went to public school right?? Television education??

I dont plan on the Government helping me out quickly in any disaster. I plan on them mucking it up. No matter who is in office. They have demonstrated over and over one dominant capability...mucking it up. As one poster aptly stated..hurricane Katrina was a demonstration of this.

I myself posted that during Hurricane Isabelle people around here were in a panic. Isabelle was only a category 1 or just barely in places a category 2. The point is people were not prepared. People were stealing generators from the yards of those who had purchased them. Astonishing.

There was even a severe ice storm here a few years back. Many people were without electricity for about a week. THey were losing it...no preparations made.
Just contrast this to how many people plan and prepare for the playoffs of their favorite sports event?? The partys ..trips to the pub etc etc etc.

I salute CX, Angry American, Mayacara, Spymaster...especially Timski and their comment about dont worry ...we will have "tea." Well said Well said. You folks got it right.

We are Yanks...no doubt. we prepare for certain things. Especially around here where hurricanes are a annual event.

I dont look for the government to "breast feed me or mine" in the event of a natural disaster. Ive seen enough to know that I will be on my own for about a week. Longer in some cases. Those who are prepared will have to protect thier familys and situations from those who made no preparations. Those who think they are "entitled" to your preparations by any means.

If you think this is paranoid...after one of the storms around here I provided electrictiy to my neighbors house from my generator. I ran him a 110 volt line. This dummy was stupid enough to listen to his wife and plug it into window airconditioner rather than his refrigerator. He quickly overloaded my small 4000 watt generator. I unplugged him quickly and pulled my extension cord back across the fence. This dummy would have damaged my generator and had us all without electricity and listen to his wife who knows less than anything about a generator as does he too. This dummy was actually indignant with me for taking my line back.
Astonishing for someone who made no preparations. I have since purchased a 7500 watt generator in addition to keeping my olde 4000 watt. I will not offer this man any electrictity in the next event. He has had plenty of time to purchase one himself. Especially with three children ...you would think this is a consideration..beyond beer and the next sports event. His woman ..... delivery pizzas, shopping, and the fast food lane. No respect for this kind of dummy...male or female.

Something else to consider too. I was hauling my generator back and forth to my parents house as my mother needs refrigerated medicines. This dummy would have engangered my mother too for the comfort levels of his wife and kids....for which he made no preparations.

As I have stated in other posts....I would dread the scenerio of surviving some kind of disaster and then being stuck with some 400 other survivors who only know how to dring beer/ale, play video games, and work the keypad of a remote controller or telephone. All with television educations.

Look around you seriously ..at the people you know and how many fit this description.

Thanks,
Orangetom