Pentagon suspects the Israelis

US-Israel love affair maybe about to end.

Pentagon is now beginning to be suspicious of the Israelis.

Why?

Maybe they are now listening to conspiracy theories?

APIAC is the powerful Israeli group in Washington.

Its members are being monitored.

Could this be end of US support for Israel?

TIME Magazine is now reporting some very fishy going ons.

Israel has long been suspected of spying on US.

Pentagon denying Israelis security clearances

State Department citing AIPAC leak case as basis for denying employees with dual Israeli-American citizenship security clearances. In one case, government lawyers argued Israel was 'actively spying on United States' to justify withdrawing clearance from worker.

Penatgon

FBI

Conspiracy theorists are saying that US is trying to end its relationhip with Israel.

Its unsustainable.

When you have 500 million Arabs hating US,
and only 14 million Israelis wanting support,
US is not going to anger half a billion people.
Too much of a security risk.

This is why Pentagon and FBI may be attemping to
gear the public opinion against Israel.

Something big is about to change.

how else can you explain all this.

There are only 6 million Israeli's. Dunno where you get the 16 million number from.
Maybe from there being 15-16 million jews? Not even half of them support or even care about Israel though. Most of them are citizens of other nations and see Judaism as what it is, their religion, nothing to do with a nationality.

Then they need to look at Michael Chertoff first. He's a dual citizen of U.S. and Israel. Now doesn't that sound suspicious that a guy in his position is also a citizen of Israel?
Our govt has known for a long time that the Israeli's have been spying on us, they've caught a number of them.

Originally posted by forestlady
Then they need to look at Michael Chertoff first. He's a dual citizen of U.S. and Israel. Now doesn't that sound suspicious that a guy in his position is also a citizen of Israel?
Our govt has known for a long time that the Israeli's have been spying on us, they've caught a number of them.

I would agree that that would be an issue, but I've done some snooping around at appears even though his mother was an Israeli national and he could theoretically be a dual citizen, he was born in the U.S., never lived in Israel, and has never has held an Israeli passport.

So, I wouldn't really consider him a dual citizen since he's never tried to be one.

There are a number of Dualies in Washington. Richard Perle, Douglas Feith,William Krystol and Dov Zakheim. Americans are becoming all to aware of these misrepresented allegiences.

Since theoretically any Jew worldwide can get automatic citizenship from Israel and the U.S. and most European countries allow dual citizenship it's not surprising that many Jews here have dual citizenship and many of their residents have dual citizenship as well.

But I think you have to look at this case by case, if you take a hard stance that would mean no Jew could ever get a government job needing any security clearance, I think that's a bit Naziish...but when someone who like worked for the Mossad or something applies for a high secuirty clearance here, I agree he should probably be denied.

I agree for so called "allies" the Israel are awfully quick to spy on us, that is not evident by only this, but other and numerous past historical cases. They also leak and sell US tech (which we give them for free) and secrets to other countries which are potential future enemies. I have doubts this will go anywhere though as the Israeli lobby groups are amongst the most powerful in Washington. We hold all the cards though, if we had the gonads all we would have to do is cut back on that 2+ billion free aid that keeps that economy floating.

Good point Westpoint but i think the US contribution is closer to 8 billion.I also read a thread here lastnite that stated that we hold about 3 billion worth in oil reserves for israel in case their russian suppliers cut them off.Regardless of the story we would never sever israeli ties.It would be political suicide for any party that did so,imho.

Quite honestly the referrence to the 'State of Israel' is the tipoff to the fact that they are part of the US. These days however, it feels as though we are part of them.

Originally posted by Xfile
It would be political suicide for any party that did so,imho.

I don't see how that could be. They constitute about 2% of the population. Maybe about 25% of the Evangelicals & other Christians, but who cares, to Israel its just an investment. They put in several million in contributions and they get back billions in return..not a bad ROI if you ask me. It would give our treasury a big break by getting them and egypt off of our dole. Our Children and our grand parents , our Parents wouldn't have to worry for our futures with all the saved money. Who does Israel care about? Surely not the USA..its Israel they worry about. Right now Israel is again resuming overflights of Lebanon and challenging French UN forces despite the cease fire and resolution 1701. They have never acted in any other way towards the USA or the world bodies other then for themselves.

It may hurt politicians financially but relieve the US taxpayers of a great burden. We should not be paying for some Russian that immigrated into Israel to build him a house (YES Our Aid packages allot for that) while Americans live in cardboard boxes ,while they feel the need to continually spy on us.


Pie

Remember Former NJ governer Jim Mcgreevy? Everyone remembers how he came out and resigned, but the reason was because his supposed "lover" was the head of NJ homeland security was an israeli national who had high military clearance in Israel.

Im not championing israel policies Pieman believe me.Was just stating fact that besides the political donations who do you think runs hollywood,the newspapers,magazines.the entire medical profession in the US.Thats where their real power lies.

Originally posted by crw2006
Remember Former NJ governer Jim Mcgreevy? Everyone remembers how he came out and resigned, but the reason was because his supposed "lover" was the head of NJ homeland security was an israeli national who had high military clearance in Israel.

Yes, and he was unable to get a U.S. security clearance and be briefed by the federal homeland security department, so he was basically useless since he didn't get any intelligence from the feds.

Originally posted by thematrix
Not even half of them support or even care about Israel though. Most of them are citizens of other nations and see Judaism as what it is, their religion, nothing to do with a nationality.

Really? that hasn't been my experience in the least. Most are fervent Israel supporters and put Israel and its needs even above their own neighbourhood I've observed. Why do they have sayanim for example?

Oh by the way if this story is true..

Originally posted by Xfile
Im not championing israel policies Pieman believe me.Was just stating fact that besides the political donations who do you think runs hollywood,the newspapers,magazines.the entire medical profession in the US.Thats where their real power lies.

No I wasn' trying to be critical and the rest of that stuff was just intended for the thread. Sorry if you misunderstood my intentions. I knew where you were coming from.

Pie

Originally posted by forestlady
Then they need to look at Michael Chertoff first. He's a dual citizen of U.S. and Israel. Now doesn't that sound suspicious that a guy in his position is also a citizen of Israel?
Our govt has known for a long time that the Israeli's have been spying on us, they've caught a number of them.

eh? whats wrong with it.

The US spies on Britain for gods sake. Oh no, the US is allowed...

I forget where, but there is footage of an Isreali representative saying

"We own America they will do as we want"

, or something to that specific effect.

I hope some one else will remember this as well, I can't for the life of me find where I saw this on video. It was live on CSPAN or some major news agency broadcast.

I'll keep looking and if not posted before I find it, will get back to this thread.

Folks mentioned Chertoff... Does this raise the issue of "super" or more like "supra-citizens"... I can think of several examples in international politics of folks with more than one country of allegiance, which is primary? Heh heh.

Hey would a Canadian-American-dualie like Frum also be of entitlement within Israel? Hmmm. At times I do see a possibility of over-representation of the Isreali perspective and world-view in the media and government beyond which can be explained by mere representation within percentage of populace ranking. All quite legal I'm sure.

Victor K.

43'

I think what we are seeing is the US begining to realize that Israel can no longer serve the function for which she was intended: local straw-man.

Israel's historic value to the West (primarily the US) has been to serve as the focus of Arabic hostility brought about by the living conditions imposed by their Western-backed (and in some cases, installed) despotic governments. These, generally authoritarian, puppet-gevernments have for decades served their Western benefactors by insuring the constant flow of oil. Often at the expense of their nation's people.

The anger and thirst for vengence these conditions have engendered over the decades have, until recently, been skillfully managed by re-focusing them into an ethnic conflict. Utilizing a long-standing rivalry between Jews and Arabs, western interests have successfully re-directed, through their puppet-potentates, Arabic angst away from themselves and toward a convenient regional scape-goat; Israel.

But radicalized Islam has begun to awaken her restive adherants, and the West has begun to realize that its bluff is about to be called.

The choice the West now faces is whether to acknowledge and negotiate with the newly empowered "Tide of Islam", or provide its proxy, Israel, with the permission and the means to crush the popularist uprising throughout the region. At stake is the Oil, and the wealth (and power) it bestows on its masters.

This is the True "raison d'etre" of the region.

Originally posted by Peyres

Originally posted by forestlady
Then they need to look at Michael Chertoff first. He's a dual citizen of U.S. and Israel. Now doesn't that sound suspicious that a guy in his position is also a citizen of Israel?
Our govt has known for a long time that the Israeli's have been spying on us, they've caught a number of them.

eh? whats wrong with it.

The US spies on Britain for gods sake. Oh no, the US is allowed...

Many pro-Israeli supporters on talk-backs and bulletin boards have taken this stance, and frankly its extremly frightening that you would be so lackadaisical towards our Governments security and Policies when it comes to Israel. There is no country that should have this luxury of being able to spy on us and having it considered to be not a problem. Israel is not part of the USA. Your attitude is definitly a big reason why we should be very wary of ANY person holding dual-citizenships. If you or someone like you were in a secure area and approached by Mossad agents you/they may think of it as being nothing to hand over our secrets to them, just as Jonathan Pollard did. Security Clearances are a priveledge and not an entitlement just because they are our allies.

To The Thread:
I think Pentagon Chief Dov Zakheim tops them all with trillions of dollars missing from the Pentagon budgets. He merely walked away scott free without ever having to answer for the missing money.